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(05-02-2021, 11:28 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Immediate draft grades are largely an exercise in futility anyway.
Whether you're a fan losing your marbles because they didn't take 6 of the 10 prospects you fell in love with, or if you're a media pundit haphazardly slapping a label on 32 draft classes you've likely not taken the time to analyze thoroughly.
Neither knows how these players will make impact or not.
Agree with this 100%!
No way to really grade a draft without some separation in time to assess. Right now everything is based on potential.
The end of the day- they could have drafted punters for every pick after t-law and this would be the best draft in Jaguar history if t-law becomes a HOF.
(05-02-2021, 12:17 PM)Corriewf Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2021, 11:28 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Immediate draft grades are largely an exercise in futility anyway.
Whether you're a fan losing your marbles because they didn't take 6 of the 10 prospects you fell in love with, or if you're a media pundit haphazardly slapping a label on 32 draft classes you've likely not taken the time to analyze thoroughly.
Neither knows how these players will make impact or not.
Agree with this 100%!
No way to really grade a draft without some separation in time to assess. Right now everything is based on potential.
The end of the day- they could have drafted punters for every pick after t-law and this would be the best draft in Jaguar history if t-law becomes a HOF.
In my opinion, I liked most of the picks we received. I am still questioning the Etienne pick, but I’m very curious to see how he does.
To be honest, I like hearing that we got good draft grades versus bad ones, but I've learned not to take them seriously. Some things to consider with grades this year:
- Many sites like to give very favorable grades to virtually every team. They know that many readers will hate it when someone tells them that they had a bad draft. As a result, almost everyone gets a good grade. You might see a grade of C- for Luke Farrell on CBS Sports' site and think he's not all that bad of a pick. However, only 3 players out the 259 players in the entire NFL draft received a grade worse than C- on their site. They are actually giving Farrell an extremely bad grade and think he's one of the worst picks of any team.
- Most people giving the grades are not intimately familiar with all 32 teams in the NFL and particularly the Jaguars. I see sites giving Tyson Campbell a grade of B and saying that he will be good paired up opposite of Henderson. They are completely ignorant of the fact that we signed Shaquill Griffin to a huge contract this off-season and that drafting at the cornerback position made little sense to Jaguars fans. They are also likely completely ignorant of the Jaguars other needs and therefore aren't thinking about what other player(s) the Jaguars could have taken instead at that spot. Jaguar fans may hate that the team didn't draft a tight end early. The person giving the grade probably didn't even know the Jaguars needed one.
- Some sites will give overall grades and "best drafts" based upon what you got and not necessarily how well you did with the picks available to you. The Jaguars had the 1st pick in each round, plus extra picks in the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th rounds. When you have that type of draft capital, you will come away with better players than most. To me, that's not the standard. The standard for me is whether we maximized those 10 picks.
- In regards to this draft, Trevor Lawrence is universally getting either A or A+ grades. He's a generational talent at the most important position. He's pulling up the Jaguars overall grade given by national media. However, Jaguars fans saw this pick as so much of no-brainer and a done deal months ago, that they are ignoring it when giving grades. Most fan's grades start with pick #25. As such, the overall grade by national media will be higher than many fans on here.
Walter football gave us a B. That guy hates us so this must be a great draft!
(05-02-2021, 04:10 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Walter football gave us a B. That guy hates us so this must be a great draft!
Yeah, he's usually pretty rough on us. The one pick that hurt our grade in his eyes was the Etienne pic, because he doesn't believe RBs should be drafted in the first.
(05-02-2021, 11:28 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Immediate draft grades are largely an exercise in futility anyway.
Whether you're a fan losing your marbles because they didn't take 6 of the 10 prospects you fell in love with, or if you're a media pundit haphazardly slapping a label on 32 draft classes you've likely not taken the time to analyze thoroughly.
Neither knows how these players will make impact or not.
And yet the people who have been largely panning our drafts for a decade plus have been right the vast majority of the time. We largely loved the Ramsey draft and hated the rest, and that played itself out pretty darn accurately.
(05-02-2021, 08:55 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2021, 03:49 AM)BristolianJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t think it’s a bad draft, we addressed nearly all the needs we have all been mentioning as a priority other than TE. I think it was maybe done in an order that we didn’t expect and some of the favourites to be picked by us (Moehrig, Barmore & Friermuth) were overlooked.
However that in itself is interesting as titbits coming out now may explain the reasoning behind that now.
The only thing that concerns me is a few of the picks are risky but could have high reward.
I am surprised Minshew didn’t go. Be interesting to see how his situation plays out.
Generally I agree with this.
I think UMs elaboration on how Etienne will be utilized (said he would be cross trained at WR) gives me confidence they could manufacture touches for him. Many times receiving backs don't get enough touches to make much meaningful impact. It'll be interesting to see how successful they will be in getting Etienne out into space where he is most dangerous.
In terms of risk, I like what I saw in the clips from Cisco. I am confident he'll be fine. The bulk of my concern lies with Walker Little. Once we drafted TL, T became the most important position of need for us looking at the premium positions of QB, Edge Rusher, LT, CB. You could easily make the argument that of the premium positions, LT was the one we had no viable candidates, and it is most critical to TL's future success. Aside from the overall uncertainty about his ACL recovery (which is mitigated in part being two years removed), that recovery time serves as a curse in some eyes because he also sat out due to Covid, so he hasn't played in two years. If his knee is healthy-and Upper(?) posted his 3 cone (?) times indicating the knee is now sound-and Warhop and co can get the rust off of him, then I feel much better about the draft overall.
As for Minshew, barring an injury to a starter somewhere, I'm not sure I see him traded this year. Though it's quite strange for me to type this, if you look around the league right now, there aren't too many teams in dire straits at the position in the aftermath of the draft. Going by division starting in the east, the one team in the NFCE definitely without a long term answer at QB is Washington. They have Fitz, who is 38, but has never been a great QB, but that's it. Every team in the AFC East now has a promising young QB prospect. In the NFC North, I'm not crazy about Goff, but he helped the Rams reach the Super Bowl just a couple of years ago and he's still relatively young. Besides that, the Lions wil have a bunch of picks in the future. Chicago just got their young QB prospect, the Vikings are still decent to good with Cousins. The Packers are in the most precarious position with Aaron Rodgers threatening to retire, but even then, the Packers just drafted Jordan Love a couple of years ago. In the AFC N, Pittsburgh is the one team in a precarious position. Big Ben is on his last legs and his backups aren't that good. Perhaps they'll be okay at the position if Haskins matures form his Washington days, but that may be an iffy proposition. In the NFC South, the Saints are in the worst position, but it's not so bad. Winston has his moments and is still relatively young and they have Taysom Hill behind him. Matt Ryan is older, but has a lot of weapons around him, has never suffered a major injury, and his level of play is still high. Our division? Houston qualifies as a disaster given what's happening woth Watson, even though they brought in Tyrod Taylor and drafted Davis Mills. Indy COULD be a disaster if they can't refurbish Carson Wentz, who thrived with Reich when both were in Philly. Not sure we would trade within the division, anyway. In the NFC West everyone in the division is set with good QB situations. In the AFC West, only Denver is in limbo at the position, but they have an experienced backup in Bridgewater. I think Minshew ends up staying here.
BTW, back to draft grades, NFLN Rhett Lewis just gave the Jaguars an A-the highest grade in the division.
I was reminded of this in another chat ...they did the same when we drafted Myles Jack .. the heat the Jags took about his knee how's that going...
9th on a composite list when we had the best draft pick of the last decade handed to us on a silver platter and had the most draft capital in the league otherwise is actually pretty shameful. We should have had the top score running away. Really bad draft when you put it in context.
(05-02-2021, 07:26 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]![[Image: davh8xy91sw61.jpg]](https://i.redd.it/davh8xy91sw61.jpg)
I didn’t think + or - effected gpa. If that’s the case then browns should be above the bears because they have one B to the bears two.
A=4
B=3
C=2
D=1
F=0
Still is a decent gauge but not sure how he is weighting his grades
EDIT: never mind it does I lied
(05-02-2021, 07:50 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2021, 07:26 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]
I didn’t think + or - effected gpa. If that’s the case then browns should be above the bears because they have one B to the bears two.
A=4
B=3
C=2
D=1
F=0
Still is a decent gauge but not sure how he is weighting his grades
EDIT: never mind it does I lied
Not a lie, just a misunderstanding.
I would note that the chart does illustrate what I was talking about regarding many draft grades being a reflection of what the team got versus how well they did with the picks that they had available. Three teams had two 1st round picks. They ranked as the 4th, 5th and 9th best drafts. Three teams had no 1st round picks. They ranked 30th, 31st and 32nd.
(05-02-2021, 07:50 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2021, 07:26 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]
I didn’t think + or - effected gpa. If that’s the case then browns should be above the bears because they have one B to the bears two.
A=4
B=3
C=2
D=1
F=0
Still is a decent gauge but not sure how he is weighting his grades
EDIT: never mind it does I lied
I believe he is using the following:
A+ = 4.33
A = 4.00
A- = 3.67
B+ = 3.33
B = 3.00
B- =2.67
C+ = 2.33
C = 2.00
C- = 1.67
D+ = 1.33
D = 1.00
D- = .67
F = 0
My college had the same system other than A+ and A both counted as 4.0.
(05-02-2021, 08:30 AM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]Overall I do feel underwhelmed. I'm not expecting much from Little and Cisco this first year. Little because he'll need to prove he is 100% healthy and will then have to beat out Cam and Jawaan. Cisco I don't know what his recovery status is and if he'll be 100% during the season. Not a given either starts or will see the field much. Campbell will probably play a bit as 5-6 DBs on the field is almost the standard now. Barring injury, I doubt he'll be a top two starter. And if he isn't agile enough for the slot, does he get in on nickel downs though? Would they kick Henderson or Shaq inside? Sidney and Herndon are solid nickel corners already. Will be interesting to see how much time he gets and if he becomes a better pro player than he was a college one. Etienne will likely give us the most production of any of these early picks. I hope is the gamebreaking playmaker they want him to be. I bet he gets a lot of playing time and will be fun to see how they use him. I do have questions if he is gonna be that explosive playmaker which I could spend a few more paragraphs discussing... wrote about him in the specific Etienne thread.
Anyways for a team that has a lot of weaknesses and had a bunch of early round draft picks, it feels odd walking away from this thinking that we might not see much impact from the majority of these players. You look back and wonder how this happened.
Missed the first half of Boselli on Hicken and Prosser this morning so not sure everything he said. But he did echo the same sentiment I made above about how odd it is for a team finishing 1-15 with a bunch picks in the top 70 of the draft only walking away with one guaranteed starter (Trevor), a rotational guy on offense (Etienne), and then a bunch of maybes. I missed him saying much about Campbell which is still a strange pick to me unless they think he is versatile enough to play inside. Got the impression Boselli liked the draft a little more than I do, especially the Walker Little pick. Admittedly not surprised Boselli is excited about an offensive tackle but I think he has legitimate reasons to like this pick as Little was very highly recruited out of high school and played well two years ago before injury. Would be great if the dude is 100% healthy and wipes the floor with Cam / Jawaan in practice and earns a starting spot. We'll see.
(05-03-2021, 08:53 AM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2021, 08:30 AM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]Overall I do feel underwhelmed. I'm not expecting much from Little and Cisco this first year. Little because he'll need to prove he is 100% healthy and will then have to beat out Cam and Jawaan. Cisco I don't know what his recovery status is and if he'll be 100% during the season. Not a given either starts or will see the field much. Campbell will probably play a bit as 5-6 DBs on the field is almost the standard now. Barring injury, I doubt he'll be a top two starter. And if he isn't agile enough for the slot, does he get in on nickel downs though? Would they kick Henderson or Shaq inside? Sidney and Herndon are solid nickel corners already. Will be interesting to see how much time he gets and if he becomes a better pro player than he was a college one. Etienne will likely give us the most production of any of these early picks. I hope is the gamebreaking playmaker they want him to be. I bet he gets a lot of playing time and will be fun to see how they use him. I do have questions if he is gonna be that explosive playmaker which I could spend a few more paragraphs discussing... wrote about him in the specific Etienne thread.
Anyways for a team that has a lot of weaknesses and had a bunch of early round draft picks, it feels odd walking away from this thinking that we might not see much impact from the majority of these players. You look back and wonder how this happened.
Missed the first half of Boselli on Hicken and Prosser this morning so not sure everything he said. But he did echo the same sentiment I made above about how odd it is for a team finishing 1-15 with a bunch picks in the top 70 of the draft only walking away with one guaranteed starter (Trevor), a rotational guy on offense (Etienne), and then a bunch of maybes. I missed him saying much about Campbell which is still a strange pick to me unless they think he is versatile enough to play inside. Got the impression Boselli liked the draft a little more than I do, especially the Walker Little pick. Admittedly not surprised Boselli is excited about an offensive tackle but I think he has legitimate reasons to like this pick as Little was very highly recruited out of high school and played well two years ago before injury. Would be great if the dude is 100% healthy and wipes the floor with Cam / Jawaan in practice and earns a starting spot. We'll see.
I heard that segment, but then starting tuning out when it got really silly.
What I hope someone asks of Boselli and Searcy are:
1. Have you seen him play or even just clips? If so what was your impression?
2. I know neither can vouch for his work during all this time off, but assuming the "typical" NFL work ethic for offseason for him, how rusty do you think he will be?
3. How long will it take to knock off the rust?
I read a few draft reviews and many of them stating no matter how good a player you don't take a back in the first round. When was this rule passed?
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