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(05-03-2021, 09:28 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]I read a few draft reviews and many of them stating no matter how good a player you don't take a back in the first round. When was this rule passed?
There is no rule about it, it's just extremely unwise. It's one of the easiest positions to find value with later. The NFL is trending more and more toward committees and not workhorses. RBs have the shortest careers and miss more games due to injury than any other position. On the occasion that they do work out very well they want big second contracts that almost never work out and are the worst way to allot a large percentage of your salary cap, especially in this case since it will be at the same time that we are going to have to give Trevor his giant second contract.
(05-03-2021, 01:07 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2021, 11:45 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]It's rumored that Meyer wanted Toney if he was there at 25, that would of nice
Praise deity that didn't happen. We don't need another gata bust on this roster.
Amen.
Not wanting to beat a dead horse here, but I must say it is a little surprising that for as many supposed BAP advocates we have on this board, I haven't seen anyone defend this draft on the BAP rationale. I have seen people react negatively to taking a RB at 25. I have seen people react negatively to the Campbell pick since we ostensibly have two good CBs in whom we invested heavily in Henderson and Griffin. I've seen people question the Little pick on the basis of the injury and extended time away. But I haven't seen anyone on this board defend this draft on the basis of BAP. If BAP is the philosophy with which the team drafts, and BAP is the philosophy to which fans here adhere, then none of the considerations which form the basis of critique would factor in to the analysis.
(05-03-2021, 10:10 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Would you take Leonard Fournette in the first round? Ki-Jana Carter? Trent Richardson?
I'd take Adrian Peterson, Fred Taylor, Barry Sanders, or Marshall Faulk at the end of round 1. The problem today is these types of players are getting run into the ground during their 3 or 4 years in college. Defenders are much bigger in college these days so RBs take such a beating prior to their 1st NFL snap. RBs should be able to come out earlier OR they should have their own salary structure that allows them to make more $$ during their initial 4 or 5 year contract in the NFL.
(05-03-2021, 02:14 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2021, 10:10 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Would you take Leonard Fournette in the first round? Ki-Jana Carter? Trent Richardson?
I'd take Adrian Peterson, Fred Taylor, Barry Sanders, or Marshall Faulk at the end of round 1. The problem today is these types of players are getting run into the ground during their 3 or 4 years in college. Defenders are much bigger in college these days so RBs take such a beating prior to their 1st NFL snap. RBs should be able to come out earlier OR they should have their own salary structure that allows them to make more $$ during their initial 4 or 5 year contract in the NFL.
No you wouldn't, because they'd never last until the end of round 1, even in this passing era.
(05-03-2021, 02:05 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Not wanting to beat a dead horse here, but I must say it is a little surprising that for as many supposed BAP advocates we have on this board, I haven't seen anyone defend this draft on the BAP rationale. I have seen people react negatively to taking a RB at 25. I have seen people react negatively to the Campbell pick since we ostensibly have two good CBs in whom we invested heavily in Henderson and Griffin. I've seen people question the Little pick on the basis of the injury and extended time away. But I haven't seen anyone on this board defend this draft on the basis of BAP. If BAP is the philosophy with which the team drafts, and BAP is the philosophy to which fans here adhere, then none of the considerations which form the basis of critique would factor in to the analysis.
I don't think a single one of our picks (after Tlaw) was even close to the best available player when we picked them, and I like some of our picks.
(05-03-2021, 02:41 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2021, 02:05 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Not wanting to beat a dead horse here, but I must say it is a little surprising that for as many supposed BAP advocates we have on this board, I haven't seen anyone defend this draft on the BAP rationale. I have seen people react negatively to taking a RB at 25. I have seen people react negatively to the Campbell pick since we ostensibly have two good CBs in whom we invested heavily in Henderson and Griffin. I've seen people question the Little pick on the basis of the injury and extended time away. But I haven't seen anyone on this board defend this draft on the basis of BAP. If BAP is the philosophy with which the team drafts, and BAP is the philosophy to which fans here adhere, then none of the considerations which form the basis of critique would factor in to the analysis.
I don't think a single one of our picks (after Tlaw) was even close to the best available player when we picked them, and I like some of our picks.
So assuming they had a BAP approach, do you assert their board was off or less than accurate, or did they somehow otherwise abandon that approach?
(05-03-2021, 02:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2021, 02:41 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think a single one of our picks (after Tlaw) was even close to the best available player when we picked them, and I like some of our picks.
So assuming they had a BAP approach, do you assert their board was off or less than accurate, or did they somehow ptherwise abandon that approach?
Honestly, I don't know which assumption is worse.
Pretty clear they had no idea what they were doing... that's why Urban wanted Baalke. A useless yesman.
(05-03-2021, 02:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2021, 02:41 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think a single one of our picks (after Tlaw) was even close to the best available player when we picked them, and I like some of our picks.
So assuming they had a BAP approach, do you assert their board was off or less than accurate, or did they somehow otherwise abandon that approach?
Considering the 5 picks after Tlaw were his teammate and then four people that Meyer openly recruited hard 4 years ago...my first assumption is that our board was heavily pared down compared to most teams. I think they probably did take what they think was BAP after that. I just don't think any of them actually were.
(05-03-2021, 02:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2021, 02:41 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think a single one of our picks (after Tlaw) was even close to the best available player when we picked them, and I like some of our picks.
So assuming they had a BAP approach, do you assert their board was off or less than accurate, or did they somehow otherwise abandon that approach?
I think the critics' problem with the draft is that the Jaguars did not draft for need. A lot of the criticism is based on not spending high picks on positions the critics think we needed. A lot of the critics would have drafted the best offensive lineman available at pick 25, for example. No matter what. They would have put their perceived need to replace our offensive tackles above any other consideration. I think that's one of the main reasons for the criticism.
So many draft experts. I'm privileged to be in the presence of such excellence. Its giving me goose bumps. ?
(05-03-2021, 02:41 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2021, 02:05 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Not wanting to beat a dead horse here, but I must say it is a little surprising that for as many supposed BAP advocates we have on this board, I haven't seen anyone defend this draft on the BAP rationale. I have seen people react negatively to taking a RB at 25. I have seen people react negatively to the Campbell pick since we ostensibly have two good CBs in whom we invested heavily in Henderson and Griffin. I've seen people question the Little pick on the basis of the injury and extended time away. But I haven't seen anyone on this board defend this draft on the basis of BAP. If BAP is the philosophy with which the team drafts, and BAP is the philosophy to which fans here adhere, then none of the considerations which form the basis of critique would factor in to the analysis.
I don't think a single one of our picks (after Tlaw) was even close to the best available player when we picked them, and I like some of our picks.
Do you see the slightest possibility that you are wrong about that? Do you see your opinions as indisputable facts?
(05-03-2021, 04:38 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2021, 02:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]So assuming they had a BAP approach, do you assert their board was off or less than accurate, or did they somehow otherwise abandon that approach?
I think the critics' problem with the draft is that the Jaguars did not draft for need. A lot of the criticism is based on not spending high picks on positions the critics think we needed. A lot of the critics would have drafted the best offensive lineman available at pick 25, for example. No matter what. They would have put their perceived need to replace our offensive tackles above any other consideration. I think that's one of the main reasons for the criticism.
They CERTAINLY didn't draft BAP.
(05-03-2021, 04:52 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2021, 04:38 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think the critics' problem with the draft is that the Jaguars did not draft for need. A lot of the criticism is based on not spending high picks on positions the critics think we needed. A lot of the critics would have drafted the best offensive lineman available at pick 25, for example. No matter what. They would have put their perceived need to replace our offensive tackles above any other consideration. I think that's one of the main reasons for the criticism.
They CERTAINLY didn't draft BAP.
In your opinion. Would you concede that there is any chance your opinion is wrong, or are your opinions actually indisputable facts? Because you and some others on this message board state your opinions as if there is zero chance that you might not be correct.
I know they didn't draft
your best available player. Is it possible that they were drafting according to a board that was different from yours?
(05-03-2021, 04:40 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2021, 02:41 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think a single one of our picks (after Tlaw) was even close to the best available player when we picked them, and I like some of our picks.
Do you see the slightest possibility that you are wrong about that? Do you see your opinions as indisputable facts?
No. I don't. Not based on the Jaguars' draft picks. There is simply no way they drafted BAP and no one will convince me otherwise. As far as my opinions being indisputable facts, of course not! No opinions are, but there is simply no way to justify some of these picks as BAP. Just look at the Farrell selection. Meyer said he took him, because he knew him and thought he was a really good guy. How does that make him the best available player? He was a run blocking TE with very little production at all in the NCAA and there was still 2 rounds to go in the draft. There is simply no way, no how, he was the BAP out of everyone still left on the board. This pick is unjustifiable, if you are arguing he was the BAP. To say Farrell was the BAP at that point would have gone against every draft ranking I have seen all year and I've seen hundreds. Every mock I've seen either had him as a 7th rounder or undrafted.
There were 2 elite backs in this draft and we got 1 of them. I’m glad the didn’t draft for need though so hopefully their evaluations were right. I felt Barmore was the top guy along with Moore and we could of got either at 33. Taking a RB wasn’t the problem with me it was just who was still there
(05-03-2021, 04:27 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]Pretty clear they had no idea what they were doing... that's why Urban wanted Baalke. A useless yesman.
But many observers gave the team an "A" for their draft.
I mean if they had "NO idea what they were doing," how did they end up with Lawrence? How did they end up with A grades?
(05-03-2021, 05:05 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2021, 04:40 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Do you see the slightest possibility that you are wrong about that? Do you see your opinions as indisputable facts?
No. I don't. Not based on the Jaguars' draft picks. There is simply no way they drafted BAP and no one will convince me otherwise. As far as my opinions being indisputable facts, of course not! No opinions are, but there is simply no way to justify some of these picks as BAP. Just look at the Farrell selection. Meyer said he took him, because he knew him and thought he was a really good guy. How does that make him the best available player? He was a run blocking TE with very little production at all in the NCAA and there was still 2 rounds to go in the draft. There is simply no way, no how, he was the BAP out of everyone still left on the board. This pick is unjustifiable, if you are arguing he was the BAP. To say Farrell was the BAP at that point would have gone against every draft ranking I have seen all year and I've seen hundreds. Every mock I've seen either had him as a 7th rounder or undrafted.
Wouldn't you say that you are a needs-based drafter? After all, you focused with laser-like intensity on the need to replace one or both of our offensive tackles. You wanted to draft an offensive lineman at pick 25. It seemed like you wanted an offensive lineman there no matter what else was available. Isn't that needs-based drafting?
And if you think the Jags drafted for need, isn't it possible that they perceive team needs differently than you do?
Shad Khan handed the team over to Urban Meyer. I don't know if he's drafting for need or best available, but he's building the team that he wants. Can't you guys at least wait until you see the result before you start calling him an idiot?
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