(05-14-2021, 11:24 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]That's a decent but not too surprising total for me after he had his nice finish to the season. I would like to see his snap counts compared to the rest of the rookie class, or a pressure % stat. I would guess he had a significantly higher than average snap count and his pressure % is probably not as impressive as the overall number would suggest.
I'm not going to spend a bunch of time checking every DL/pass rusher from that rookie class, or figuring the %s, but from a quick glance at the 1st round picks, Chaisson had 50% or less of the defensive snaps in 8 games. Young had 50% or less in 1 game. Brown had 50% or less in 0 games. Kinlaw had 50% or less in 3 games.
(05-14-2021, 11:57 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (05-14-2021, 10:53 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Pressure numbers are very telling and straight forward, where as sack numbers can be very misleading.
I'd rather have a guy who's creating constant pressure over somebody who just cleans up and gets the sack after 2 other players pressured said QB and ran him straight into the 3rd guy who gets credited for the sack.
I want the guy who actually finishes the play for a loss.
The same can be said for a guy who creates the pressure that leads to an INT.
(05-14-2021, 08:35 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (05-14-2021, 05:12 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Saying you haven't been a fan holds no weight and means nothing. But to say he's not a finisher is funny when dude has played 1 season with no traing camp lol. Do you know how many sacks Calais Campbell had his rookie year? One has to start getting pressures before getting sacks, you dont just look at a sack number to determine if a player is making an impact. If a player is pressuring the QB every other play but not getting any sacks give me that any day of the week. That means he is forcing errand throws and running the QB to Josh Allen or will force the QB to step up for the interior players. Not to mention he was pretty good against the run as well.
There's no comparing an edge rusher like Chaisson with a 3-4 DL like Campbell.
Yes he played only one year with no camp. But who actually had camp? Everyone was at a disadvantage from that perspective (though admittedly rookies were impacted more because they had to learn the schemes and techniques). This includes the guys who blocked him.
I was not a fan of the Chaisson pick either when it was made. I am hopeful that switching to a 3-4 and having him rush from further outside in a 2 point stance will help him be more productive, but I have doubts about his overall potential as an edge rusher.
I think and hope you are wrong with the doubts. If he is used right i think he has serious potential. Lets hope this staff can bring out the best in k lavon.
(05-15-2021, 01:40 AM)surfon Wrote: [ -> ] (05-14-2021, 08:35 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]There's no comparing an edge rusher like Chaisson with a 3-4 DL like Campbell.
Yes he played only one year with no camp. But who actually had camp? Everyone was at a disadvantage from that perspective (though admittedly rookies were impacted more because they had to learn the schemes and techniques). This includes the guys who blocked him.
I was not a fan of the Chaisson pick either when it was made. I am hopeful that switching to a 3-4 and having him rush from further outside in a 2 point stance will help him be more productive, but I have doubts about his overall potential as an edge rusher.
I think and hope you are wrong with the doubts. If he is used right i think he has serious potential. Lets hope this staff can bring out the best in k lavon.
I hope I am wrong too.
There's nothing I'd like more than to eat crow about Chaisson, and he teams with Allen to become bookend double digit edge rushers.
(05-15-2021, 12:26 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-14-2021, 11:57 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I want the guy who actually finishes the play for a loss.
The same can be said for a guy who creates the pressure that leads to an INT.
But a pressure doesn't always end that way. That's my point. Sometimes you can pressure a mobile QB out of the pocket, but he still is able to complete a long pass or a long run. A sack always results in a loss though. To me, a pressure says way more about the abilities or lack thereof, of an O-Lineman, not a defensive player.
(05-15-2021, 01:43 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (05-15-2021, 01:40 AM)surfon Wrote: [ -> ]I think and hope you are wrong with the doubts. If he is used right i think he has serious potential. Lets hope this staff can bring out the best in k lavon.
I hope I am wrong too.
There's nothing I'd like more than to eat crow about Chaisson, and he teams with Allen to become bookend double digit edge rushers.
We all hope we're wrong, but based on this team's past, it's no wonder we're skeptical.
(05-15-2021, 03:15 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (05-15-2021, 12:26 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]The same can be said for a guy who creates the pressure that leads to an INT.
But a pressure doesn't always end that way. That's my point. Sometimes you can pressure a mobile QB out of the pocket, but he still is able to complete a long pass or a long run. A sack always results in a loss though. To me, a pressure says way more about the abilities or lack thereof, of an O-Lineman, not a defensive player.
(05-15-2021, 01:43 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I hope I am wrong too.
There's nothing I'd like more than to eat crow about Chaisson, and he teams with Allen to become bookend double digit edge rushers.
We all hope we're wrong, but based on this team's past, it's no wonder we're skeptical.
It's sad to think we're starting to sound like Jets fans, but after all of this losing, I suppose some cynicism (healthy or otherwise) is to be expected.
(05-15-2021, 03:15 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]But a pressure doesn't always end that way. That's my point. Sometimes you can pressure a mobile QB out of the pocket, but he still is able to complete a long pass or a long run. A sack always results in a loss though. To me, a pressure says way more about the abilities or lack thereof, of an O-Lineman, not a defensive player.
No one is saying that sacks aren't better than pressures. Obviously they're way better. However, any stat where the total number is usually in the single or very low double digits inherently has a lot of noise in it.
We're talking about the predictability going forward, and it's been proven that pressures predict future sacks far more accurately than sacks predict future sacks.
(05-14-2021, 10:26 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (05-14-2021, 05:12 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Saying you haven't been a fan holds no weight and means nothing. But to say he's not a finisher is funny when dude has played 1 season with no traing camp lol. Do you know how many sacks Calais Campbell had his rookie year? One has to start getting pressures before getting sacks, you dont just look at a sack number to determine if a player is making an impact. If a player is pressuring the QB every other play but not getting any sacks give me that any day of the week. That means he is forcing errand throws and running the QB to Josh Allen or will force the QB to step up for the interior players. Not to mention he was pretty good against the run as well.
Did you know Calais Campbell started 0 games his rookie season? Apparently not. He was used very sparingly, his first season.
You have lower standards than I do. I prefer a guy actually finish the job. Pressuring a very mobile QB can still lead to big plays by the offense. Just because he pressures a QB, that does not always lead to negative plays. A sack does always results in a negative play. Give me a "finisher" any day of the week.
You are completely correct if you are talking about a finished product. But flg&j's point was that the kid is developing. He didn't even really rush the passer full time in college either. Give the kid some time to develop before you start labeling him not a finisher. Lots of edge players take a few years to develop.
(05-14-2021, 03:28 PM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]Hopefully the scheme will better fit his talents. If so he could be dangerous. Hoping the better play end of last year isn't an anomaly
Not sure about the dangerous part, but I do thik the scheme will better suit his abilities.
I hope you are right about the dangerous part, but I don't see it.
I’m always amazed at how comfortable fans are writing off a player after only seeing his rookie season
(06-03-2021, 03:45 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I’m always amazed at how comfortable fans are writing off a player after only seeing his rookie season
In their defense, how long has it been since Jags fans have seen a coaching staff regularly develop players?
I expect an uptick from every D player this year. Why? because many were thrust into the fire without an off season and we traded all our vets away. I can just picture the O line coaches of other teams rubbing their hands together and smiling the week before a game with us last year.
He looked jacked in that instagram post. That's a good sign if nothing else.
Chaisson didn't fit the defensive scheme within 2020, hopefully our 2021 scheme will be more tailored to his skill set.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
(06-03-2021, 10:34 PM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ]Chaisson didn't fit the defensive scheme within 2020, hopefully our 2021 scheme will be more tailored to his skill set.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
I think we were supposed to transition to a 3-4 last year with the signings of Rodney Gunter & Al Woods & drafting Davon Hamilton. With Gunters career ending heart issue & Woods opting out we didn't have the 3-4 Dlinemen needed to make the transition so we just ran the same 4-3 with way less talent and got slaughtered. I really think that Chaisson was drafted specifically to play OLB as a standup rusher, and that it's probably the best way to utilize Josh Allen's talents as well.
(06-03-2021, 10:46 PM)Firesky Wrote: [ -> ] (06-03-2021, 10:34 PM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ]Chaisson didn't fit the defensive scheme within 2020, hopefully our 2021 scheme will be more tailored to his skill set.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
I think we were supposed to transition to a 3-4 last year with the signings of Rodney Gunter & Al Woods & drafting Davon Hamilton. With Gunters career ending heart issue & Woods opting out we didn't have the 3-4 Dlinemen needed to make the transition so we just ran the same 4-3 with way less talent and got slaughtered. I really think that Chaisson was drafted specifically to play OLB as a standup rusher, and that it's probably the best way to utilize Josh Allen's talents as well.
Yep, exactly my thoughts too.
Chaissons will be a solid player, its C.J henderson at corner that I am more worried about busting.
(06-09-2021, 10:20 AM)Maryland jagsfan89 Wrote: [ -> ]Chaissons will be a solid player, its C.J henderson at corner that I am more worried about busting.
I think the new staff has their own doubts about Henderson as well and that's part of the reason they drafted Campbell.
Chaisson has definitely got lots of eyes on him and lots of expectations as well.
https://twitter.com/md_1010xl/status/140...19789?s=20
(06-09-2021, 10:39 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2021, 10:20 AM)Maryland jagsfan89 Wrote: [ -> ]Chaissons will be a solid player, its C.J henderson at corner that I am more worried about busting.
I think the new staff has their own doubts about Henderson as well and that's part of the reason they drafted Campbell.
No, that's not the reason they drafted Campbell. The reason they drafted Campbell is because in the modern NFL, you need more than 2 starting-quality corners.