(08-23-2021, 01:26 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-23-2021, 11:41 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. We would need a whiteboard to sort it out. You should probably let it go in the meantime, and be less quick to judge the math aptitude of a person with a master's degree in engineering.
I do admit difficulty in understanding that which makes no sense, or reasoning that follows no logical progression. I am, however, quite capable of sorting it out in a mental image, but feel free to use crayons to help yourself.
There are countless possible defensive scenarios. To state that when one side is breached, other sides must necessarily retreat is simply ridiculous. To give you a football analogy, that's like saying when a defender gets past the O-line on one side, the other side should stop blocking.
Generally speaking you're both right. When a defensive line is breached the defenders must reorganize to close the gap, usually by reforming and straightening the line somewhere behind the original position. Failure to do so can result in encirclement around the flanks and rear of the part of the line that held. Sometimes that means all units pull back to a different phase line, sometimes the line reforms in a bulge without some having to move. The response is based on the depth of penetration and amount of time it takes the routed troops to reform.
And if it were bullets that were bringing down cops forcing them to give up barricades and recover to defensible positions... it'd be an insurrection. Yet... the only bullets fired were from a cowardly cop.
(08-23-2021, 02:14 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]And if it were bullets that were bringing down cops forcing them to give up barricades and recover to defensible positions... it'd be an insurrection. Yet... the only bullets fired were from a cowardly cop.
Pretty much. I watched the events unfolding on television and never saw anything "bad". It was mostly a bunch of people carrying U.S. flags and Trump flags generally walking around/standing around. It wasn't until a few days later that much of the MSM started showing videos of "violent" protesters. Even the "Chewbaca guy" never showed signs of hostility, yet has been in jail all this time.
Meanwhile the resident liberal democrat mikesez spews his fantasies of how "tactical operations" should happen.
(08-23-2021, 01:43 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-23-2021, 01:26 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]I do admit difficulty in understanding that which makes no sense, or reasoning that follows no logical progression. I am, however, quite capable of sorting it out in a mental image, but feel free to use crayons to help yourself.
There are countless possible defensive scenarios. To state that when one side is breached, other sides must necessarily retreat is simply ridiculous. To give you a football analogy, that's like saying when a defender gets past the O-line on one side, the other side should stop blocking.
Generally speaking you're both right. When a defensive line is breached the defenders must reorganize to close the gap, usually by reforming and straightening the line somewhere behind the original position. Failure to do so can result in encirclement around the flanks and rear of the part of the line that held. Sometimes that means all units pull back to a different phase line, sometimes the line reforms in a bulge without some having to move. The response is based on the depth of penetration and amount of time it takes the routed troops to reform.
Sounds complicated. Whatever happened to good old 'run like hell'?
(08-23-2021, 03:47 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (08-23-2021, 02:14 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]And if it were bullets that were bringing down cops forcing them to give up barricades and recover to defensible positions... it'd be an insurrection. Yet... the only bullets fired were from a cowardly cop.
Pretty much. I watched the events unfolding on television and never saw anything "bad". It was mostly a bunch of people carrying U.S. flags and Trump flags generally walking around/standing around. It wasn't until a few days later that much of the MSM started showing videos of "violent" protesters. Even the "Chewbaca guy" never showed signs of hostility, yet has been in jail all this time.
Meanwhile the resident liberal democrat mikesez spews his fantasies of how "tactical operations" should happen.
I haven't watched much of the recorded coverage, but for the most part it looked like a completely unorganized crowd without any real plan of action. Yes, plenty were guilty of illegal trespass and vandalism, but I doubt anyone had the intention of overthrowing the government.
The capitol police apparently had no established protocol for handling the situation, which didn't help. At least one officer did not respond well and tragically a woman was shot and killed. From my perspective, the use of deadly forced was not justified in that instance. It was certainly an ugly day in our nation's history, but to label it as an attempted insurrection is an overstatement.
(08-23-2021, 07:54 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-23-2021, 03:47 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Pretty much. I watched the events unfolding on television and never saw anything "bad". It was mostly a bunch of people carrying U.S. flags and Trump flags generally walking around/standing around. It wasn't until a few days later that much of the MSM started showing videos of "violent" protesters. Even the "Chewbaca guy" never showed signs of hostility, yet has been in jail all this time.
Meanwhile the resident liberal democrat mikesez spews his fantasies of how "tactical operations" should happen.
I haven't watched much of the recorded coverage, but for the most part it looked like a completely unorganized crowd without any real plan of action. Yes, plenty were guilty of illegal trespass and vandalism, but I doubt anyone had the intention of overthrowing the government.
The capitol police apparently had no established protocol for handling the situation, which didn't help. At least one officer did not respond well and tragically a woman was shot and killed. From my perspective, the use of deadly forced was not justified in that instance. It was certainly an ugly day in our nation's history, but to label it as an attempted insurrection is an overstatement.
It was disorganized, yes, but pretty much everyone there shared the goal of disrupting the peaceful transfer of power. As a country we are very lucky that they were disorganized. But that doesn't excuse what they did and it doesn't excuse Trump for his role in encouraging it.
If I bang on your door in the middle of the night and scream that I'm going to take your children from you, but I have no weapons, not even a hammer that I might use to break your windows, you wouldn't say to yourself "oh that was harmless, that wasn't a real threat". You would still want me in jail, and you would want anyone who put me up to it to also be in jail.
(08-23-2021, 09:39 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-23-2021, 07:54 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]I haven't watched much of the recorded coverage, but for the most part it looked like a completely unorganized crowd without any real plan of action. Yes, plenty were guilty of illegal trespass and vandalism, but I doubt anyone had the intention of overthrowing the government.
The capitol police apparently had no established protocol for handling the situation, which didn't help. At least one officer did not respond well and tragically a woman was shot and killed. From my perspective, the use of deadly forced was not justified in that instance. It was certainly an ugly day in our nation's history, but to label it as an attempted insurrection is an overstatement.
It was disorganized, yes, but pretty much everyone there shared the goal of disrupting the peaceful transfer of power. As a country we are very lucky that they were disorganized. But that doesn't excuse what they did and it doesn't excuse Trump for his role in encouraging it.
If I bang on your door in the middle of the night and scream that I'm going to take your children from you, but I have no weapons, not even a hammer that I might use to break your windows, you wouldn't say to yourself "oh that was harmless, that wasn't a real threat". You would still want me in jail, and you would want anyone who put me up to it to also be in jail.
It was a protest, the point is to protest. As Elie Wiesel said, "There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be time when we fail to protest it." In this case the election irregularities demanded a response.
(08-23-2021, 10:26 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-23-2021, 09:39 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]It was disorganized, yes, but pretty much everyone there shared the goal of disrupting the peaceful transfer of power. As a country we are very lucky that they were disorganized. But that doesn't excuse what they did and it doesn't excuse Trump for his role in encouraging it.
If I bang on your door in the middle of the night and scream that I'm going to take your children from you, but I have no weapons, not even a hammer that I might use to break your windows, you wouldn't say to yourself "oh that was harmless, that wasn't a real threat". You would still want me in jail, and you would want anyone who put me up to it to also be in jail.
It was a protest, the point is to protest. As Elie Wiesel said, "There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be time when we fail to protest it." In this case the election irregularities demanded a response.
It was much more than a protest.
If you ever want to visit or protest at the US capitol, or any other government building, at the very least you have to go through a metal detector.
These people all pushed their way through, meaning that any or all of them could have been armed.
Lucky that a lot more people didn't die. If you were out there doing your job as a cop, would you let some people beating you up continue to do that or worse, or would you pull your gun? Its do it die time. It's you or them. Who's going home?