(03-30-2022, 05:12 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2022, 04:57 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]If it's anybody but an Edge player, or a trade down at #1 it'll be a failure.
Realistically, it should be Hutch. He's the safest player in this draft imo and a position of need. I don't think he'll ever be a superstar in the league, but I think he'll be a very productive player throughout his career. He just screams safe and for a team that has struggled to hit on 1st round picks, they must hit on this one.
Keep it simple, take Hutch and keep it moving.
With how this team was run last year, I have no doubt Little wasn't even given a chance to beat out Taylor. Just like they kept Cisco on the bench while all Wingard did was lead the league in missed tackles every week.
What makes you think he will never be a superstar in the league? He has the size, had great production, crazy athleticism, great at settingthe edge etc. Who do you think is the best player in the draft because that's who we need to take and I think that who Doug and Baalke will want. To me Hutch is the best player and he was the highest graded player in college football last year. If you're calling the best player the safest then it makess sense.
Like Jag149 said in the post below you, I don't know if there is a truly "best" player in this draft. I think you could make a case for a handful of guys. Could make a case for Hutch, could make a case for Hamilton, could make a case for Sauce, as well as a few other guys.
I see a more athletic Ryan Kerrigan in Hutch and if Kerrigan is Hutch's floor than that'd be great.
I think Walker, Thibs and Jermaine Johnson all have a higher ceiling than Hutch, but I don't think this franchise is in the position to be gambling on upside at #1.
(03-30-2022, 11:04 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2022, 05:12 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]What makes you think he will never be a superstar in the league? He has the size, had great production, crazy athleticism, great at settingthe edge etc. Who do you think is the best player in the draft because that's who we need to take and I think that who Doug and Baalke will want. To me Hutch is the best player and he was the highest graded player in college football last year. If you're calling the best player the safest then it makess sense.
Like Jag149 said in the post below you, I don't know if there is a truly "best" player in this draft. I think you could make a case for a handful of guys. Could make a case for Hutch, could make a case for Hamilton, could make a case for Sauce, as well as a few other guys.
I see a more athletic Ryan Kerrigan in Hutch and if Kerrigan is Hutch's floor than that'd be great.
I think Walker, Thibs and Jermaine Johnson all have a higher ceiling than Hutch, but I don't think this franchise is in the position to be gambling on upside at #1.
I totally agree. We've gambled too much in recent years and it hasn't worked out.
Chaisson plays like a inside LB that they tried and force to be a rush end. Perhaps they should stand him next to Oluokun?
He's just never looked like a natural pass rusher. He looks like a LB that was pretty good at blitzing unexpectedly, but not consistently beating a Tackle. He'd probably be pretty darn good as a 43 LB or a 34 ILB.
Teams try and project and convert so much...they have players out of position for years and label them a bust.
(03-30-2022, 11:30 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2022, 11:04 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Like Jag149 said in the post below you, I don't know if there is a truly "best" player in this draft. I think you could make a case for a handful of guys. Could make a case for Hutch, could make a case for Hamilton, could make a case for Sauce, as well as a few other guys.
I see a more athletic Ryan Kerrigan in Hutch and if Kerrigan is Hutch's floor than that'd be great.
I think Walker, Thibs and Jermaine Johnson all have a higher ceiling than Hutch, but I don't think this franchise is in the position to be gambling on upside at #1.
I totally agree. We've gambled too much in recent years and it hasn't worked out.
Just so we're on the same page, who do you consider to be gambles?
I count Matt Jones, Justin Blackmon and Blake Bortles among the gambles.
I'm not talking about flat out misses. I'm talking those guys with known risks (switching positions, off field issues)
(03-30-2022, 11:04 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2022, 05:12 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]What makes you think he will never be a superstar in the league? He has the size, had great production, crazy athleticism, great at settingthe edge etc. Who do you think is the best player in the draft because that's who we need to take and I think that who Doug and Baalke will want. To me Hutch is the best player and he was the highest graded player in college football last year. If you're calling the best player the safest then it makess sense.
Like Jag149 said in the post below you, I don't know if there is a truly "best" player in this draft. I think you could make a case for a handful of guys. Could make a case for Hutch, could make a case for Hamilton, could make a case for Sauce, as well as a few other guys.
I see a more athletic Ryan Kerrigan in Hutch and if Kerrigan is Hutch's floor than that'd be great.
I think Walker, Thibs and Jermaine Johnson all have a higher ceiling than Hutch, but I don't think this franchise is in the position to be gambling on upside at #1.
Nobody ever knows for sure who the best player will be in any draft but I hope our front office and scounts do a good job and don't go into the draft picking where they don't have a guy who they feel will end up the best player in this draft, hopefully they did thier homework and have the right guy at the top. I disagree that all those guys have a higher ceiling than Hutch, If they feel one of those other guys have a higher ceiling they need to be the pick that guy imo. With Kerrigan, he was a pretty good player but Hutch is much taller at 6' 7" and more explosive, but he's white so it makes sense.
(03-31-2022, 07:32 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2022, 11:04 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Like Jag149 said in the post below you, I don't know if there is a truly "best" player in this draft. I think you could make a case for a handful of guys. Could make a case for Hutch, could make a case for Hamilton, could make a case for Sauce, as well as a few other guys.
I see a more athletic Ryan Kerrigan in Hutch and if Kerrigan is Hutch's floor than that'd be great.
I think Walker, Thibs and Jermaine Johnson all have a higher ceiling than Hutch, but I don't think this franchise is in the position to be gambling on upside at #1.
Nobody ever knows for sure who the best player will be in any draft but I hope our front office and scounts do a good job and don't go into the draft picking where they don't have a guy who they feel will end up the best player in this draft, hopefully they did thier homework and have the right guy at the top. I disagree that all those guys have a higher ceiling than Hutch, If they feel one of those other guys have a higher ceiling they need to be the pick that guy imo. With Kerrigan, he was a pretty good player but Hutch is much taller at 6' 7" and more explosive, but he's white so it makes sense.
So if they went with Charles Cross because they think he has the highest ceiling, you would consider that a home run?
(03-31-2022, 08:46 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (03-31-2022, 07:32 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Nobody ever knows for sure who the best player will be in any draft but I hope our front office and scounts do a good job and don't go into the draft picking where they don't have a guy who they feel will end up the best player in this draft, hopefully they did thier homework and have the right guy at the top. I disagree that all those guys have a higher ceiling than Hutch, If they feel one of those other guys have a higher ceiling they need to be the pick that guy imo. With Kerrigan, he was a pretty good player but Hutch is much taller at 6' 7" and more explosive, but he's white so it makes sense.
So if they went with Charles Cross because they think he has the highest ceiling, you would consider that a home run?
Yes. If they feel he will end up the best player then he'll yeah especially with Cam on the 2nd tag. Would love to get an elite LT
(03-30-2022, 11:22 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2022, 10:50 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Nice!
I'm guessing situational pass rusher from the 3-4 DE spot and 4-2 rotational DE when in nickel?
Seems that Linder cap clearance is going to work quickly. Jags are all about spending to the cap this year.
I was told that the Linder cut brought us to the exact amount of cap space required to sign our rookie pool, so I think we're going to have to clear some more space to sign the rooks now.
We should cut Hyde again just as a matter of principle.
(03-31-2022, 08:46 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (03-31-2022, 07:32 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Nobody ever knows for sure who the best player will be in any draft but I hope our front office and scounts do a good job and don't go into the draft picking where they don't have a guy who they feel will end up the best player in this draft, hopefully they did thier homework and have the right guy at the top. I disagree that all those guys have a higher ceiling than Hutch, If they feel one of those other guys have a higher ceiling they need to be the pick that guy imo. With Kerrigan, he was a pretty good player but Hutch is much taller at 6' 7" and more explosive, but he's white so it makes sense.
So if they went with Charles Cross because they think he has the highest ceiling, you would consider that a home run?
The only way I would pass up a player who I feel will be the better player is if there is off the field issues like the rumors with Thibs. Of course these GMs talk to the players, do background checks etc. so they know more than we do on that. If Dave interviewed Henderson and did a background check he could of seen the red flags that later came out about his depression etc. Dave didn't even interview CJ, how the hell do you not interview a guy you plan on taking in the top 10
(03-30-2022, 11:22 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I was told that the Linder cut brought us to the exact amount of cap space required to sign our rookie pool, so I think we're going to have to clear some more space to sign the rooks now.
Looks like this info was correct, we need 13.6M to sign our rookies and cutting Linder gave us that amount. We need to clear 7M now.
![[Image: FPL094VWUAIgRll?format=jpg&name=medium]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPL094VWUAIgRll?format=jpg&name=medium)
(03-31-2022, 10:34 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2022, 11:22 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I was told that the Linder cut brought us to the exact amount of cap space required to sign our rookie pool, so I think we're going to have to clear some more space to sign the rooks now.
Looks like this info was correct, we need 13.6M to sign our rookies and cutting Linder gave us that amount. We need to clear 7M now.
Jenkins has too much dead cap and has an out clause after this season, or he'd be the easy move if they plan on drafting competition there.
Manhertz could be an easy cut. Decent blocker but suspect hands and limited route ability.
His cap hit is 4mil this year.
How long do they have after the draft to trim the cap?
(03-31-2022, 10:40 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-31-2022, 10:34 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Looks like this info was correct, we need 13.6M to sign our rookies and cutting Linder gave us that amount. We need to clear 7M now.
Jenkins has too much dead cap and has an out clause after this season, or he'd be the easy move if they plan on drafting competition there.
Manhertz could be an easy cut. Decent blocker but suspect hands and limited route ability.
His cap hit is 4mil this year.
How long do they have after the draft to trim the cap?
On top of that, is it too late to restructure someones current contract to give more signing bonus money?
(03-31-2022, 12:40 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2022, 11:30 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I totally agree. We've gambled too much in recent years and it hasn't worked out.
Just so we're on the same page, who do you consider to be gambles?
I count Matt Jones, Justin Blackmon and Blake Bortles among the gambles.
I'm not talking about flat out misses. I'm talking those guys with known risks (switching positions, off field issues)
Don't forget R.J. Soward. Coughlin knew that the guy had issues, but felt like he'd be able to keep him under control. Turned out to be a big mistake.
(03-31-2022, 10:42 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (03-31-2022, 10:40 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Jenkins has too much dead cap and has an out clause after this season, or he'd be the easy move if they plan on drafting competition there.
Manhertz could be an easy cut. Decent blocker but suspect hands and limited route ability.
His cap hit is 4mil this year.
How long do they have after the draft to trim the cap?
On top of that, is it too late to restructure someones current contract to give more signing bonus money?
That is likely in play as well. I don't think we've passed by any deadline on doing so.
If they do a deal beyond the tag on Robinson, he could potentially be a factor in trimming 2022 cap. Beyond him, you've got Griffin, Jenkins, Marvin Jones and maybe Dan Arnold that could be amended/restructured to clear space.
(03-31-2022, 12:21 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-31-2022, 10:42 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]On top of that, is it too late to restructure someones current contract to give more signing bonus money?
That is likely in play as well. I don't think we've passed by any deadline on doing so.
If they do a deal beyond the tag on Robinson, he could potentially be a factor in trimming 2022 cap. Beyond him, you've got Griffin, Jenkins, Marvin Jones and maybe Dan Arnold that could be amended/restructured to clear space.
That is exactly what I was thinking. Robinson long-term contract will probably be structured to clear enough room.
I agree long term deal with small first year hit for Cam is likely what Baalke is counting on.
(03-31-2022, 10:40 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Jenkins has too much dead cap and has an out clause after this season, or he'd be the easy move if they plan on drafting competition there.
Manhertz could be an easy cut. Decent blocker but suspect hands and limited route ability.
His cap hit is 4mil this year.
How long do they have after the draft to trim the cap?
IIRC they wouldn't be able to sign anyone if it put them over the cap. When a team is over the cap, the league begins voiding contracts from most recent signed backward. So whichever rook just signed their deal after we exceed the cap, they'd be the ones to get voided (or the league just wouldn't approve the contract when it is submitted to the office.)
So what we do with our picks might influence what we have to do to fit the cap. As in, if we trade back into the first, is that going to require MORE space than the 13M projected? Does that mean we stand pat or trade away current picks for future selections to save some present day dollars?
(03-31-2022, 12:21 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-31-2022, 10:42 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]On top of that, is it too late to restructure someones current contract to give more signing bonus money?
That is likely in play as well. I don't think we've passed by any deadline on doing so.
If they do a deal beyond the tag on Robinson, he could potentially be a factor in trimming 2022 cap. Beyond him, you've got Griffin, Jenkins, Marvin Jones and maybe Dan Arnold that could be amended/restructured to clear space.
...I have to wonder if they've got something like that already done or pending approval that afforded them the option to sign Key. It seems odd if we intentionally put ourselves into the red heading into darft day.
We have 12 picks. Does anyone really think we are going to make 12 selections? Last year we had more picks than we used trading a few. This many picks is good this year as it is a deep draft for a number of reasons. We have a lot of candidates that used their extra covid year coming out this year. Additionally, many teams actually may need a few of the latter picks (6th round) to get the less expensive rookies for depth due to their own cap issues. Just a thought I had....who knows actually. My guess is we will target drafting no more than 8 trading the others to move up or swap for next year picks.