(04-17-2022, 01:37 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-16-2022, 08:52 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Ronster has a responsibility to be informed and civil. We can agree that he's not civil on many occasions, and he is uninformed from time to time. We can agree that we would like that to change.
However, even if we agree to this, I still have two problems with the Mikey's and Marty's of the world. Firstly, just because he is wrong from time to time, and frequently uncivil, that doesn't mean he is wrong all the time. Secondly, and the one that is more important to me, is you guys love to spend your time attacking the person who has become disillusioned by the system even while acknowledging the system is broken. This is like attacking the bully at school because he gets beat by his dad. Your energy needs to be redirected. For people that claim to be empathetic, you are awfully quick to attack those who make you uncomfortable.
If we could all get the right focus, namely holding our institutions accountable via calls for transparency, impartialness, and principled practices, and then holding their feet to the fire either via boycotts and voting, we can fix the Ronsters.
I mostly ignore Ronster. If I have attacked him, or you, or FSG, it was never about my own discomfort.
It was probably because, in my opinion, maintaining a minimum level of consensus and civility is critical to preserving both the Republican Party and the Republic in general.
You guys make certain lines of argument from time to time that are totally pointless and have no effect other than undermining what holds this whole 230 year old experiment together.
I am genuinely worried about the US becoming a non-representative or non-democratic republic in my lifetime.
And you are genuinely worried about... something else. Marxists taking over or something. Marxists taking over would be bad, but losing the ability to nonviolently influence government would be worse.
What do you think Lucky, FSG, Ronster, Americus and well a lot of us regulars are saying?
(04-17-2022, 02:14 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2022, 01:39 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Trolling? Because I'm calling your ranting the nonsense that it is? You're a Keyboard Commando, none of what you say is what you'd actually do.
Now tell me about how you're Sixfootfour of rock hard meanness and the world will collapse in the face of your presence.
mikesez
I mostly ignore Ronster. If I have attacked him, or you, or FSG, it was never about my own discomfort.
It was probably because, in my opinion, maintaining a minimum level of consensus and civility is critical to preserving both the Republican Party and the Republic in general.
You guys make certain lines of argument from time to time that are totally pointless and have no effect other than undermining what holds this whole 230 year old experiment together.
I am genuinely worried about the US becoming a non-representative or non-democratic republic in my lifetime.
And you are genuinely worried about... something else. Marxists taking over or something. Marxists taking over would be bad, but losing the ability to nonviolently influence government would be worse.
You mean like when the 2020 election was stolen? That kind of losing the ability to nonviolently influence government?
I’m not going to allow you to provoke me, amateur.
You don’t know anything about me, troll.
Only what you've told us. Of course it's all bluster, but I guess in your head it makes sense.
(04-17-2022, 01:37 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-16-2022, 08:52 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Ronster has a responsibility to be informed and civil. We can agree that he's not civil on many occasions, and he is uninformed from time to time. We can agree that we would like that to change.
However, even if we agree to this, I still have two problems with the Mikey's and Marty's of the world. Firstly, just because he is wrong from time to time, and frequently uncivil, that doesn't mean he is wrong all the time. Secondly, and the one that is more important to me, is you guys love to spend your time attacking the person who has become disillusioned by the system even while acknowledging the system is broken. This is like attacking the bully at school because he gets beat by his dad. Your energy needs to be redirected. For people that claim to be empathetic, you are awfully quick to attack those who make you uncomfortable.
If we could all get the right focus, namely holding our institutions accountable via calls for transparency, impartialness, and principled practices, and then holding their feet to the fire either via boycotts and voting, we can fix the Ronsters.
I mostly ignore Ronster. If I have attacked him, or you, or FSG, it was never about my own discomfort.
It was probably because, in my opinion, maintaining a minimum level of consensus and civility is critical to preserving both the Republican Party and the Republic in general.
You guys make certain lines of argument from time to time that are totally pointless and have no effect other than undermining what holds this whole 230 year old experiment together.
I am genuinely worried about the US becoming a non-representative or non-democratic republic in my lifetime.
And you are genuinely worried about... something else. Marxists taking over or something. Marxists taking over would be bad, but losing the ability to nonviolently influence government would be worse.
![[Image: oh-no-baby-what-is-you-doin.gif]](https://c.tenor.com/woliJIA-7WEAAAAC/oh-no-baby-what-is-you-doin.gif)
What do you think happens if/when Marxists take over?
(04-17-2022, 01:39 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2022, 01:37 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I mostly ignore Ronster. If I have attacked him, or you, or FSG, it was never about my own discomfort.
It was probably because, in my opinion, maintaining a minimum level of consensus and civility is critical to preserving both the Republican Party and the Republic in general.
You guys make certain lines of argument from time to time that are totally pointless and have no effect other than undermining what holds this whole 230 year old experiment together.
I am genuinely worried about the US becoming a non-representative or non-democratic republic in my lifetime.
And you are genuinely worried about... something else. Marxists taking over or something. Marxists taking over would be bad, but losing the ability to nonviolently influence government would be worse.
You mean like when the 2020 election was stolen? That kind of losing the ability to nonviolently influence government?
If it was stolen, yes. But it wasn't.
If it was stolen, the level and intensity of justifiable violence would make Jan 6 look like dinner and a movie.
But it wasn't.
(04-17-2022, 02:15 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2022, 01:37 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I mostly ignore Ronster. If I have attacked him, or you, or FSG, it was never about my own discomfort.
It was probably because, in my opinion, maintaining a minimum level of consensus and civility is critical to preserving both the Republican Party and the Republic in general.
You guys make certain lines of argument from time to time that are totally pointless and have no effect other than undermining what holds this whole 230 year old experiment together.
I am genuinely worried about the US becoming a non-representative or non-democratic republic in my lifetime.
And you are genuinely worried about... something else. Marxists taking over or something. Marxists taking over would be bad, but losing the ability to nonviolently influence government would be worse.
What do you think Lucky, FSG, Ronster, Americus and well a lot of us regulars are saying?
Sometimes you're saying that we already got to that point long ago. And you thought selecting Trump would fix it all somehow.
If you think vote totals have ever been faked in any significant way here, you're wrong.
If you simply think that the two choices presented are both bad and that neither really represents the vox Populi, you have a point.
Trump could have fixed that for us.
He didn't.
Fixing it requires work. You have change various election laws that prevent third parties and independent candidates from consolidating support, and you need to change them at the state, federal, and even party level.
Trump at least said he was going to build the wall and fix healthcare. He even tried though he failed.
He didn't lift a finger or say one word to help people who feel disconnected from both parties today feel more connected tomorrow.
(04-17-2022, 05:02 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2022, 01:39 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]You mean like when the 2020 election was stolen? That kind of losing the ability to nonviolently influence government?
If it was stolen, yes. But it wasn't.
If it was stolen, the level and intensity of justifiable violence would make Jan 6 look like dinner and a movie.
But it wasn't.
And yet it was and it hasn't.
(04-17-2022, 05:14 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2022, 02:15 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]What do you think Lucky, FSG, Ronster, Americus and well a lot of us regulars are saying?
Sometimes you're saying that we already got to that point long ago. And you thought selecting Trump would fix it all somehow.
If you think vote totals have ever been faked in any significant way here, you're wrong.
If you simply think that the two choices presented are both bad and that neither really represents the vox Populi, you have a point.
Trump could have fixed that for us.
He didn't.
Fixing it requires work. You have change various election laws that prevent third parties and independent candidates from consolidating support, and you need to change them at the state, federal, and even party level.
Trump at least said he was going to build the wall and fix healthcare. He even tried though he failed.
He didn't lift a finger or say one word to help people who feel disconnected from both parties today feel more connected tomorrow.
Huh? Mike read the quoted sentence again. We all share that concern. We the people have lost our voice. Your obsession with Trump is disturbing.
(04-17-2022, 06:29 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2022, 05:14 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Sometimes you're saying that we already got to that point long ago. And you thought selecting Trump would fix it all somehow.
If you think vote totals have ever been faked in any significant way here, you're wrong.
If you simply think that the two choices presented are both bad and that neither really represents the vox Populi, you have a point.
Trump could have fixed that for us.
He didn't.
Fixing it requires work. You have change various election laws that prevent third parties and independent candidates from consolidating support, and you need to change them at the state, federal, and even party level.
Trump at least said he was going to build the wall and fix healthcare. He even tried though he failed.
He didn't lift a finger or say one word to help people who feel disconnected from both parties today feel more connected tomorrow.
Huh? Mike read the quoted sentence again. We all share that concern. We the people have lost our voice. Your obsession with Trump is disturbing.
I said you have a point.
And I told you what makes me sometimes feel like I have no voice, because each party in its own way is embracing narratives I find dangerous and policies that are not in my interest.
But that didn't connect with you.
So why do you feel that way? Did Trump make you feel different? Did he help you in any tangible way? Are people listening to you now?
The thing is, I am not concerned about Marxists. I've changed my opinion on the matter. I am concerned about corporatists who have coopted Marxist tactics to gain a base that excuses their greedy behavior as long as they tout social justice. We have a global corporate government that is pulling the strings. It's so obvious. It is disenfranchising all Americans and creating radicalism. It uses the left half to usher in change and the right half to expand censorship and political warfare. But, hey, at least the Mikey's of the world are content believing they still effectuate change via the voting booth.
(04-17-2022, 06:39 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]The thing is, I am not concerned about Marxists. I've changed my opinion on the matter. I am concerned about corporatists who have coopted Marxist tactics to gain a base that excuses their greedy behavior as long as they tout social justice. We have a global corporate government that is pulling the strings. It's so obvious. It is disenfranchising all Americans and creating radicalism. It uses the left half to usher in change and the right half to expand censorship and political warfare. But, hey, at least the Mikey's of the world are content believing they still effectuate change via the voting booth.
Your concern makes sense. The corporations are definitely gunning for power and influence that they should not have.
Delta Airlines and Major League Baseball tried to tell the Georgia Legislature what to do. Disney tried to tell the Florida Governor what to do.
But how'd that work out for them?
The winners of elections still have more power than the titans of corporations.
The question is if the winners of elections truly represent the will of the people. They'd clearly rather not. They'd rather gerrymander and closed-primary their way into restraining the voice of the people.
I noticed the topic line identified his race, which I don't recall posters doing in the past with regard to mass killings. Interestingly enough most mass killings are conducted by white people as illustrated on the bar chart within the following link. As such, I'm sure it came as a shock to most of us to find out that he was black.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/4764...er-s-race/
You answered your own observation.
(04-18-2022, 09:09 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]I noticed the topic line identified his race, which I don't recall posters doing in the past with regard to mass killings. Interestingly enough most mass killings are conducted by white people as illustrated on the bar chart within the following link. As such, I'm sure it came as a shock to most of us to find out that he was black.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/4764...er-s-race/
It's 2022. Not much shocks me anymore after having lived through what we have since the beginning of 2020. It all makes Billy Joel's song
We Didn't Start the Fire look like amateur hour.