So we were going to draft in the 5th round, at #157, and the Bucs called and offered us their 2023 4th round pick for our 2022 5th round pick # 157. But we wanted to use that pick for Snoop Conner.
So we called Philadelphia and offered them two 6th round picks, #188 and #198, for 5th round pick #154. The Eagles said okay to that, so we said okay to the Bucs. And then we drafted Snoop Conner at #154.
Which basically means we did a 3-way deal which netted us a 4th round pick next year in exchange for two 6th round picks this year, and still managed to draft the guy we wanted in the 5th round.
You may hate Baalke, but he's not totally incompetent. He had to swing a 3-way deal in a very short period of time. It's not the most earth-shattering deal in the world, no great profit made, no one got skinned, but it does show that he is on top of things and that this whole idea that other teams won't deal with him is a complete myth.
It's not a bad decision overall. The way I look at is like this. James Robinson is coming back from an ACL injury after two years in the NFL. He was undrafted. They haven't signed him to any extensions and they already invested yet another first round pick in last year's draft for Etienne. Due to his injury. A circumstance was unfortunately created.
I hate to say it, but, maybe, just maybe, James Robinson is not in this team's future plans. He could be trade bait if they have a strong 50/50 showing this year between him and Etienne. However, it's going to be an interesting contest all year. At some point. One of those guys is going to take the lead and get a little bit more opportunity than the other guy.
Keen observations, guys..
In Baalke I Trust, until he proves that he can't be trusted BY The Owner of the Jaguars.
NH3...
James Robinson would really have to fall off a cliff due to that injury for me to believe he wont be in the plans for the future. He's still extremely young and the guy has been the single bright spot on this team the past 2 seasons.
Wow, how did my thread get derailed so quickly? lol I didn't say anything about James Robinson.
(05-01-2022, 07:56 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, how did my thread get derailed so quickly? lol I didn't say anything about James Robinson.
LOL. Sorry, man. That's on me. Reading into the tea leaves too much this morning prior to any coffee.
I think it was a savvy transaction. Baalke certainly is not some kind of "nope, won't work with him at all" type of personnel man around the NFL that people on here painted him out to be. The trade he made to get Lloyd also provides further evidence to your point as well.
So Baalke might be like that boss you had that you hated like all get out at first, but then slowly over time grew to respect and live with.
Baalke has tied his fate not to a qb but to a DE.
(05-01-2022, 07:58 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2022, 07:56 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, how did my thread get derailed so quickly? lol I didn't say anything about James Robinson.
LOL. Sorry, man. That's on me. Reading into the tea leaves too much this morning prior to any coffee.
I think it was a savvy transaction. Baalke certainly is not some kind of "nope, won't work with him at all" type of personnel man around the NFL that people on here painted him out to be. The trade he made to get Lloyd also provides further evidence to your point as well.
It's okay. I just thought it was funny. I thought I had this incredibly intelligent point and someone just leaps in another direction.
(05-01-2022, 08:11 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2022, 07:58 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]LOL. Sorry, man. That's on me. Reading into the tea leaves too much this morning prior to any coffee.
I think it was a savvy transaction. Baalke certainly is not some kind of "nope, won't work with him at all" type of personnel man around the NFL that people on here painted him out to be. The trade he made to get Lloyd also provides further evidence to your point as well.
It's okay. I just thought it was funny. I thought I had this incredibly intelligent point and someone just leaps in another direction.
You did. I am reeling it back in. I think we can go back further though and see some of the other transactions he made. He looks pretty smart after dealing C.J Henderson away and replacing him with Tyson Campbell. If Dan Arnold can stay healthy this year there's a good chance he hits career highs across the board in receptions, yards and touchdowns in this system.
Maybe it was Meyer and not Baalke after all.
Even with Meyer, Baalke's draft last year was solid. Tyson Campbell, Walker Little, and Andre Cisco are all potential starters.
(05-01-2022, 06:09 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]It's not a bad decision overall. The way I look at is like this. James Robinson is coming back from an ACL injury after two years in the NFL. He was undrafted. They haven't signed him to any extensions and they already invested yet another first round pick in last year's draft for Etienne. Due to his injury. A circumstance was unfortunately created.
I hate to say it, but, maybe, just maybe, James Robinson is not in this team's future plans. He could be trade bait if they have a strong 50/50 showing this year between him and Etienne. However, it's going to be an interesting contest all year. At some point. One of those guys is going to take the lead and get a little bit more opportunity than the other guy.
I like the result of landing a back they wanted and picking up a 4th next year.
I'm not so quick to think Pederson has plans to move on from Robinson. Though I can see why it could work out favorable in a trade, we could also still get 2022 and 2023 production from him very affordably.
Pederson is a committee RB guy historically. Gotta have a full stable to do that.
Glancing through eagles rushing stats during Pederson's tenure, he had an obvious bell-cow in a few of those seasons but still distributed a very significant number of touches to the other backs. Two other seasons featured a more even distribution of committee style carries. He also clearly shows an affinity for using a scat-back package. If Etienne ends up filling that role, it would make sense that Etienne wouldn't receive the lion's share of the traditional RB package touches - but split them with Robinson.
Anyway, many ways to skin a cat. I'm glad we had a depth selection at RB and look forward to seeing Pederson's scheme for his backs.
So we're basically combining the trades and giving Baalke praise for giving up 3 6ths and a 7th to get a guy who was literally 100 picks lower on the consensus board and to move up like 15 slots in the draft a year later?
People were making fun of us for being the first team to ever make a move back for a future years pick and lose value on the draft pick value sheet (I can't imagine someone has tracked all of that, but I guess they do). We should have gotten a significantly better pick for moving back a year and throwing in a 7th rounder.
(05-01-2022, 10:25 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]So we're basically combining the trades and giving Baalke praise for giving up 3 6ths and a 7th to get a guy who was literally 100 picks lower on the consensus board and to move up like 15 slots in the draft a year later?
People were making fun of us for being the first team to ever make a move back for a future years pick and lose value on the draft pick value sheet (I can't imagine someone has tracked all of that, but I guess they do). We should have gotten a significantly better pick for moving back a year and throwing in a 7th rounder.
I don't know which is inaccurate, but what you are describing is very different from the OP's description of events.
(05-01-2022, 10:25 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]So we're basically combining the trades and giving Baalke praise for giving up 3 6ths and a 7th to get a guy who was literally 100 picks lower on the consensus board and to move up like 15 slots in the draft a year later?
People were making fun of us for being the first team to ever make a move back for a future years pick and lose value on the draft pick value sheet (I can't imagine someone has tracked all of that, but I guess they do). We should have gotten a significantly better pick for moving back a year and throwing in a 7th rounder.
No, what I am saying is, the Trent Baalke who did the two transactions I described, and the Trent Baalke who has been relentlessly criticized on this message board, don't seem like the same person. So maybe we have a distorted idea of who he really is and what he is really capable of.
Go back and re-read it.
He still reached when he didn’t have to on the first pick. He picked a project over a future Pro bowler. I want Walker to do well and I’ll cheer him on, but Baalke missed big on the first pick, but we’ll see soon enough.
And damn right I’m going to be skeptical, they’ve earned it.. win and I’ll shut up…
(05-01-2022, 10:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Go back and re-read it.
Sorry, I see what you're saying now. Teams were indeed willing to work with Baalke as long as he was getting fleeced. I wonder if the same would have been the case had the outcomes not been so lopsided in their favor.
I'm not going to go to the farmers market and buy some apples from a guy I hate when I can walk to the next booth and do the same thing, but if the apples from the guy I hate are half off...well maybe I will in that case.
(05-01-2022, 11:03 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Some of you guys perfectly fit the description: "often wrong, never in doubt."
Like I've said many times before, self-awareness and humility don't make for an interesting message board, so I guess it's okay to be that way if you want. Just don't go thinking other people are impressed by that.
Dude, so far Baalke has proven that FA are willing to come here when they are being paid way above what the rest of the market is offering (except for Darious because he wanted to come home), and that GMs are willing to trade with him when they are taking advantage of him. I don't think that makes what I have said about him in the past innacurate.
I am definitely not often wrong, never in doubt...but I am strong opinions, loosely held. As soon as the evidence changes I will be happy to admit it and reevaluate. Like I have done when saying I changed how I evaluated after missing big on Teddy and OJ Howard.
(05-01-2022, 10:25 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]So we're basically combining the trades and giving Baalke praise for giving up 3 6ths and a 7th to get a guy who was literally 100 picks lower on the consensus board and to move up like 15 slots in the draft a year later?
People were making fun of us for being the first team to ever make a move back for a future years pick and lose value on the draft pick value sheet (I can't imagine someone has tracked all of that, but I guess they do). We should have gotten a significantly better pick for moving back a year and throwing in a 7th rounder.
Normally I am against trading up. We did this 3 times. This was a necessity as no way there was room for 12 draftees on our roster. (half of them 6/7th rounders) We really could have easily wasted the picks. We made 3 trades with this draft capital. I think all the transactions were interesting as they ended up targeting a player we wanted.
We basically got a 1st for a 2nd, 4th, 6th.
a 4th (next year) for a 5th, 7th
a 5th for 2 6ths
I believe that to be pretty good trading. So yes, we are giving Baalke credit for that.
(05-01-2022, 11:22 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2022, 11:03 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Some of you guys perfectly fit the description: "often wrong, never in doubt."
Like I've said many times before, self-awareness and humility don't make for an interesting message board, so I guess it's okay to be that way if you want. Just don't go thinking other people are impressed by that.
Dude, so far Baalke has proven that FA are willing to come here when they are being paid way above what the rest of the market is offering (except for Darious because he wanted to come home), and that GMs are willing to trade with him when they are taking advantage of him. I don't think that makes what I have said about him in the past innacurate.
I am definitely not often wrong, never in doubt...but I am strong opinions, loosely held. As soon as the evidence changes I will be happy to admit it and reevaluate. Like I have done when saying I changed how I evaluated after missing big on Teddy and OJ Howard.
I withdrew that post. It wasn't necessary for me to attack people personally.
And yet, somehow, I managed to do it AND take it back. Pretty slick, huh?