1,891 snaps at DE for Hutchinson in his time at Michigan. 17.5 sacks, 27.5 TFL in 4 seasons.
"Walker played 200 snaps as a backup in 2020, per Pro Football Focus. He had 37 of his career 65 college tackles last season. As a junior, he played 381 snaps at defensive end, 105 at defensive tackle, 98 at linebacker, 11 at nose guard and one as a cornerback, according to the NFL Network."
Can't find his snap count as a freshman for whatever reason, but based on the stats above it's pretty safe to assume he's played close to half as much football as Aidan Hutchinson, And on top of that he was not rushing the passer 100% of the time like Aidan was.
Yet, 17.5 sacks in nearly 2,000 snaps is "production" whilst 9.5 in what I would assume to be somewhere in the range of 500-700 snaps of rushing the passer, presumably less than that even looking at how Georgia played defense is considered "not producing"
It took Aidan Hutchinson 22 games to get 3.5 sacks as a pure pass rushing DE. It took Travon 29 games to get 9.5, whilst being a backup in each of his first two seasons and only just this year being a starter whilst also not rushing the passer 100% of the time.
Hutchinson had one good year stats wise, How is this a sure fire pick? I think we made the correct choice here.
(05-03-2022, 07:25 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]"Walker played 200 snaps as a backup in 2020, per Pro Football Focus. He had 37 of his career 65 college tackles last season. As a junior, he played 381 snaps at defensive end, 105 at defensive tackle, 98 at linebacker, 11 at nose guard and one as a cornerback, according to the NFL Network."
This is kind of crazy. Just hope all that diversity is because he was multi-talented and smart (to learn all of that) and not because he just wasn't good enough to hold down any single position (tweaner).
That said, now that we know he has CB experience, I say let's put him on Jamar Chase in the playoffs (Walker Island) --- we finally found our replacement for Jalen. It's all coming together now.
(05-03-2022, 08:41 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 07:25 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]"Walker played 200 snaps as a backup in 2020, per Pro Football Focus. He had 37 of his career 65 college tackles last season. As a junior, he played 381 snaps at defensive end, 105 at defensive tackle, 98 at linebacker, 11 at nose guard and one as a cornerback, according to the NFL Network."
This is kind of crazy. Just hope all that diversity is because he was multi-talented and smart (to learn all of that) and not because he just wasn't good enough to hold down any single position (tweaner).
That said, now that we know he has CB experience, I say let's put him on Jamar Chase in the playoffs (Walker Island) --- we finally found our replacement for Jalen. It's all coming together now.
Seems like he was constantly the second-best guy at any given position. We should line him up at Box Safety and dare those guys to come over the middle. Of course he'll be the most heavily penalized player in the League and probably suspended for the season by game 3, but it will be fun to watch for a little while!
(05-03-2022, 07:25 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]1,891 snaps at DE for Hutchinson in his time at Michigan. 17.5 sacks, 27.5 TFL in 4 seasons.
"Walker played 200 snaps as a backup in 2020, per Pro Football Focus. He had 37 of his career 65 college tackles last season. As a junior, he played 381 snaps at defensive end, 105 at defensive tackle, 98 at linebacker, 11 at nose guard and one as a cornerback, according to the NFL Network."
Can't find his snap count as a freshman for whatever reason, but based on the stats above it's pretty safe to assume he's played close to half as much football as Aidan Hutchinson, And on top of that he was not rushing the passer 100% of the time like Aidan was.
Yet, 17.5 sacks in nearly 2,000 snaps is "production" whilst 9.5 in what I would assume to be somewhere in the range of 500-700 snaps of rushing the passer, presumably less than that even looking at how Georgia played defense is considered "not producing"
It took Aidan Hutchinson 22 games to get 3.5 sacks as a pure pass rushing DE. It took Travon 29 games to get 9.5, whilst being a backup in each of his first two seasons and only just this year being a starter whilst also not rushing the passer 100% of the time.
Hutchinson had one good year stats wise, How is this a sure fire pick? I think we made the correct choice here.
I don't think either was a sure fire pick. They both have/had their limitations. I think it came more down to ceiling vs. floor. I think Hutch can be very good in the right system and with some time to develop some technique. If he doesn't reach that potential, you still get a bulldog who's going to give 100% every down even if it's not yielding sacks or TFL.
With Walker, you're gambling on exactly what you stated - he's got experience all over the field, and not nearly the mileage that Hutch had. Does that mean he has unlockable superstar potential? We can only hope so. The trade-off though is that if he doesn't you're looking at a guy who may end up anywhere on the field trying to find a way to get him to produce.
I'm ok with the gamble, especially since there was no other sure-fire guy that we passed on to get him. Everyone at the top of this draft had a negative to accompany all the positive, and most will likely end up having lengthy careers in this league; I don't see Walker, Hutch, Ekwonu, Neal, Gardner, etc as a prime candidate to wash out. We really couldn't have gone wrong with any of them; take the guy with the biggest upside and hope you're right. Timidity gets you nothing as a GM.
(05-03-2022, 08:41 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 07:25 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]"Walker played 200 snaps as a backup in 2020, per Pro Football Focus. He had 37 of his career 65 college tackles last season. As a junior, he played 381 snaps at defensive end, 105 at defensive tackle, 98 at linebacker, 11 at nose guard and one as a cornerback, according to the NFL Network."
This is kind of crazy. Just hope all that diversity is because he was multi-talented and smart (to learn all of that) and not because he just wasn't good enough to hold down any single position (tweaner).
That said, now that we know he has CB experience, I say let's put him on Jamar Chase in the playoffs (Walker Island) --- we finally found our replacement for Jalen. It's all coming together now.
His jam at the LOS would send Chase into the third row of the opposite end zone seats lol
(05-03-2022, 07:25 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]1,891 snaps at DE for Hutchinson in his time at Michigan. 17.5 sacks, 27.5 TFL in 4 seasons.
"Walker played 200 snaps as a backup in 2020, per Pro Football Focus. He had 37 of his career 65 college tackles last season. As a junior, he played 381 snaps at defensive end, 105 at defensive tackle, 98 at linebacker, 11 at nose guard and one as a cornerback, according to the NFL Network."
Can't find his snap count as a freshman for whatever reason, but based on the stats above it's pretty safe to assume he's played close to half as much football as Aidan Hutchinson, And on top of that he was not rushing the passer 100% of the time like Aidan was.
Yet, 17.5 sacks in nearly 2,000 snaps is "production" whilst 9.5 in what I would assume to be somewhere in the range of 500-700 snaps of rushing the passer, presumably less than that even looking at how Georgia played defense is considered "not producing"
It took Aidan Hutchinson 22 games to get 3.5 sacks as a pure pass rushing DE. It took Travon 29 games to get 9.5, whilst being a backup in each of his first two seasons and only just this year being a starter whilst also not rushing the passer 100% of the time.
Hutchinson had one good year stats wise, How is this a sure fire pick? I think we made the correct choice here.
I'm starting to feel that way too. I don't think anyone questions his physical talent, it's his production that seemed a little off but considering the context, it starts to make a lot more sense. He was moved around quite a bit and will get to concentrate on one position with the Jags initially which should benefit him greatly.
(05-03-2022, 08:43 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 08:41 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]This is kind of crazy. Just hope all that diversity is because he was multi-talented and smart (to learn all of that) and not because he just wasn't good enough to hold down any single position (tweaner).
That said, now that we know he has CB experience, I say let's put him on Jamar Chase in the playoffs (Walker Island) --- we finally found our replacement for Jalen. It's all coming together now.
Seems like he was constantly the second-best guy at any given position. We should line him up at Box Safety and dare those guys to come over the middle. Of course he'll be the most heavily penalized player in the League and probably suspended for the season by game 3, but it will be fun to watch for a little while!
We could have used that kind of entertainment over 9 of the past 10 years. Speaking of safety, perhaps he can replace Wingard and play 25 yards off of the line of scrimmage and layout anyone that tries to go deep.
I think people have both overstated how high Hutch's floor is and how low Walker's floor is.
Hutch is pretty unprecedented. There is basically no one as tall as he is with such short arms. He also wins off inside counter moves and bull rushes, it's pretty rare for an EDGE to win like that when they aren't scary around the corner. I think there's a decent chance Hutch is a guy who loses both the punch battle and the leverage battle, and whose counter moves don't work because the OT isn't scared of being beaten outside.
Walker with his freak athleticism, size, length, and versatility plus what he has shown on the field is pretty much guaranteed to be solid IMO. He may not ever become the pass rusher you would have hoped for at #1, but I think there's very little chance that he is flat out bad. There is that chance, even if it's small, that Hutch winds up being bad.
(05-03-2022, 10:12 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I think people have both overstated how high Hutch's floor is and how low Walker's floor is.
Hutch is pretty unprecedented. There is basically no one as tall as he is with such short arms. He also wins off inside counter moves and bull rushes, it's pretty rare for an EDGE to win like that when they aren't scary around the corner. I think there's a decent chance Hutch is a guy who loses both the punch battle and the leverage battle, and whose counter moves don't work because the OT isn't scared of being beaten outside.
Walker with his freak athleticism, size, length, and versatility plus what he has shown on the field is pretty much guaranteed to be solid IMO. He may not ever become the pass rusher you would have hoped for at #1, but I think there's very little chance that he is flat out bad. There is that chance, even if it's small, that Hutch winds up being bad.
The only sure-fire superstar in this draft was Sauce Gardner.
That in itself warranted his selection. It's not a guess - it's a guarantee. 6'3", long arms. 4.41 40 speed and so fast in the first 10 yards.... and the production and the lock-down ability PROVEN in college... even against the best of the best - he shut them down. He is a bigger, stronger, faster version of Jalen Ramsey... with the swagger to match. That's probably why they didn't get him. Scared of his ego.
I'm warming up to the pick.
In reality, Hutch isn't a 15+ sack guy. I think most analysts agree that he's probably an 8-10 sack guy if he hits his ceiling. And I think Walker's floor is definitely underrated. I don't think he's a 3 sack a year guy. The truth is that this year was a terrible year for the #1 overall pick. If we were ever going to gamble then this was the year to do it.
Walker definitely isn't a bad player. He's a freak athlete, but he just didn't dominate on tape like I'd have hoped. I'm going to just pretend like it has to do with how all over the defense he was and see what happens.
(05-03-2022, 10:12 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I think people have both overstated how high Hutch's floor is and how low Walker's floor is.
Hutch is pretty unprecedented. There is basically no one as tall as he is with such short arms. He also wins off inside counter moves and bull rushes, it's pretty rare for an EDGE to win like that when they aren't scary around the corner. I think there's a decent chance Hutch is a guy who loses both the punch battle and the leverage battle, and whose counter moves don't work because the OT isn't scared of being beaten outside.
Walker with his freak athleticism, size, length, and versatility plus what he has shown on the field is pretty much guaranteed to be solid IMO. He may not ever become the pass rusher you would have hoped for at #1, but I think there's very little chance that he is flat out bad. There is that chance, even if it's small, that Hutch winds up being bad.
Agreed, on Walker. Everyone knows he's a damn good player already with a low floor because he can impact a game in multiple ways, but if you take a player at 1 he needs to be a damn good pass rusher as well. Thats what it will all depend on is if he can develop his pass rush moves. I was very high on Walker before the combine and he made his climb but he has to develop those moves. If he can do that then he has All Pro potential. I'm sure Caldwell had input on which defender he liked best and it was most likely Walker being that's who we took. I'm sure he has a plan for him as well as Buckner
(05-03-2022, 10:04 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 08:43 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Seems like he was constantly the second-best guy at any given position. We should line him up at Box Safety and dare those guys to come over the middle. Of course he'll be the most heavily penalized player in the League and probably suspended for the season by game 3, but it will be fun to watch for a little while!
We could have used that kind of entertainment over 9 of the past 10 years. Speaking of safety, perhaps he can replace Wingard and play 25 yards off of the line of scrimmage and layout anyone that tries to go deep.
Just hand him this along with his signing bonus check.
![[Image: 61W2QUuSvhL._SL1000_.jpg]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61W2QUuSvhL._SL1000_.jpg)
(05-03-2022, 10:29 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 10:12 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I think people have both overstated how high Hutch's floor is and how low Walker's floor is.
Hutch is pretty unprecedented. There is basically no one as tall as he is with such short arms. He also wins off inside counter moves and bull rushes, it's pretty rare for an EDGE to win like that when they aren't scary around the corner. I think there's a decent chance Hutch is a guy who loses both the punch battle and the leverage battle, and whose counter moves don't work because the OT isn't scared of being beaten outside.
Walker with his freak athleticism, size, length, and versatility plus what he has shown on the field is pretty much guaranteed to be solid IMO. He may not ever become the pass rusher you would have hoped for at #1, but I think there's very little chance that he is flat out bad. There is that chance, even if it's small, that Hutch winds up being bad.
Agreed, on Walker. Everyone knows he's a damn good player already with a low floor because he can impact a game in multiple ways, but if you take a player at 1 he needs to be a damn good pass rusher as well. Thats what it will all depend on is if he can develop his pass rush moves. I was very high on Walker before the combine and he made his climb but he has to develop those moves. If he can do that then he has All Pro potential. I'm sure Caldwell had input on which defender he liked best and it was most likely Walker being that's who we took. I'm sure he has a plan for him as well as Buckner
Who did what now?
Just have walker blitz up the middle like Bobby boucher jr
Water boy style!
(05-03-2022, 10:36 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 10:04 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]We could have used that kind of entertainment over 9 of the past 10 years. Speaking of safety, perhaps he can replace Wingard and play 25 yards off of the line of scrimmage and layout anyone that tries to go deep.
Just hand him this along with his signing bonus check.
(05-03-2022, 10:29 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed, on Walker. Everyone knows he's a damn good player already with a low floor because he can impact a game in multiple ways, but if you take a player at 1 he needs to be a damn good pass rusher as well. Thats what it will all depend on is if he can develop his pass rush moves. I was very high on Walker before the combine and he made his climb but he has to develop those moves. If he can do that then he has All Pro potential. I'm sure Caldwell had input on which defender he liked best and it was most likely Walker being that's who we took. I'm sure he has a plan for him as well as Buckner
Who did what now?
What do you mean?I'm sure Caldwell had input on which defender he liked best and it was most likely Walker being that's who we took.
(05-03-2022, 10:57 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 10:36 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Just hand him this along with his signing bonus check.
Who did what now?
What do you mean?I'm sure Caldwell had input on which defender he liked best and it was most likely Walker being that's who we took.
If they're listening to Caldwell they should be fired.
(05-03-2022, 11:00 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]If they're listening to Caldwell they should be fired.
Are you perhaps forgetting that our defensive coordinator is Mike Caldwell?
(05-03-2022, 11:13 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 11:00 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]If they're listening to Caldwell they should be fired.
Are you perhaps forgetting that our defensive coordinator is Mike Caldwell?
I was wondering the same thing.
I think the selection begins to make more sense when you take a step back and look at the overall moves they made in free agency and during the rest of the draft.
I truly believe the idea was to get better against the running game. They did that when they signed up Fatukasi and Oluokun. When you look at Walker. He's already good against the running game.
However. If they're truly sticking with him at OLB? They're looking to tap into his potential as a pass rusher. When you look at Muma and Lloyd? These guys can flatout play and benefit the defense in every aspect.
Lloyd can run and cover and he can blitz. Muma can drop back in coverage and he's a solid tackler. They added Darious Williams. A solid cover corner. That last pick in RD7 is probably making the team as solid depth. He was pretty damn good in man coverage as well last year. Finishing 3rd overall.
It's pretty clear they want to blitz like crazy off the edge between Walker and Allen and they want to make sure the coverage is tight to give them more time all while also not fearing guys over the middle getting beat in coverages or blowing their gap assignments at NT, DE and ILB.
This is going to be a fun defense to watch this year. They can now blitz and cover from all over the field comfortably.
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(05-03-2022, 10:22 AM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]I'm warming up to the pick.
In reality, Hutch isn't a 15+ sack guy. I think most analysts agree that he's probably an 8-10 sack guy if he hits his ceiling. And I think Walker's floor is definitely underrated. I don't think he's a 3 sack a year guy. The truth is that this year was a terrible year for the #1 overall pick. If we were ever going to gamble then this was the year to do it.
Walker definitely isn't a bad player. He's a freak athlete, but he just didn't dominate on tape like I'd have hoped. I'm going to just pretend like it has to do with how all over the defense he was and see what happens.
I'll take 3 a year from him if it means Allen is getting 16!
(05-03-2022, 10:36 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 10:04 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]We could have used that kind of entertainment over 9 of the past 10 years. Speaking of safety, perhaps he can replace Wingard and play 25 yards off of the line of scrimmage and layout anyone that tries to go deep.
Just hand him this along with his signing bonus check.
(05-03-2022, 10:29 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed, on Walker. Everyone knows he's a damn good player already with a low floor because he can impact a game in multiple ways, but if you take a player at 1 he needs to be a damn good pass rusher as well. Thats what it will all depend on is if he can develop his pass rush moves. I was very high on Walker before the combine and he made his climb but he has to develop those moves. If he can do that then he has All Pro potential. I'm sure Caldwell had input on which defender he liked best and it was most likely Walker being that's who we took. I'm sure he has a plan for him as well as Buckner
Who did what now?
Defensive coordinator is also a Caldwell, though not sure if we checked to see if he was related to Dave.
(05-03-2022, 11:00 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 10:57 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]What do you mean?I'm sure Caldwell had input on which defender he liked best and it was most likely Walker being that's who we took.
If they're listening to Caldwell they should be fired.
They should be fired for listening to our D coordinator about which defender to take or who he thinks will fit his defense better?
(05-03-2022, 11:37 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I think the selection begins to make more sense when you take a step back and look at the overall moves they made in free agency and during the rest of the draft.
I truly believe the idea was to get better against the running game. They did that when they signed up Fatukasi and Oluokun. When you look at Walker. He's already good against the running game.
However. If they're truly sticking with him at OLB? They're looking to tap into his potential as a pass rusher. When you look at Muma and Lloyd? These guys can flatout play and benefit the defense in every aspect.
Lloyd can run and cover and he can blitz. Muma can drop back in coverage and he's a solid tackler. They added Darious Williams. A solid cover corner. That last pick in RD7 is probably making the team as solid depth. He was pretty damn good in man coverage as well last year. Finishing 3rd overall.
It's pretty clear they want to blitz like crazy off the edge between Walker and Allen and they want to make sure the coverage is tight to give them more time all while also not fearing guys over the middle getting beat in coverages or blowing their gap assignments at NT, DE and ILB.
This is going to be a fun defense to watch this year. They can now blitz and cover from all over the field comfortably.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Yeah, I'm warming up to the pick as well. I think he has one of the highest floors in this draft as an overall football player. He just needs to work on those pass rush moves
Jim Caldwell sucks. So.... yea, I wouldn't listen to him