Go look at any successful franchise and you will see one thing in common. These teams have building block players who create a culture in the locker room. This becomes contagious and builds a sense of expectation from not only your coaches but your team mates. The Jaguars flat out fail to retain enough players to create any kind of culture here. Sure there is the Yannick and Ramsey headaches but they are rare. I do agree most players the Jags draft do not deserve a second contract. With that said, every offseason we let some players walk that are real head scratchers. Go back to our last winning season there are only a couple players left. This team has got to get a group of solid players to build upon. Insane when you look at the turn around in the last 5 years.
Let's go back to out last good season in over a decade in 2017. Look at the 2017 roster and then look at the Jags current roster. It's almost entirely turned over in a span of 4 seasons. Pretty crazy:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...roster.htm
(05-04-2022, 06:53 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Go look at any successful franchise and you will see one thing in common. These teams have building block players who create a culture in the locker room. This becomes contagious and builds a sense of expectation from not only your coaches but your team mates. The Jaguars flat out fail to retain enough players to create any kind of culture here. Sure there is the Yannick and Ramsey headaches but they are rare. I do agree most players the Jags draft do not deserve a second contract. With that said, every offseason we let some players walk that are real head scratchers. Go back to our last winning season there are only a couple players left. This team has got to get a group of solid players to build upon. Insane when you look at the turn around in the last 5 years.
Let's go back to out last good season in over a decade in 2017. Look at the 2017 roster and then look at the Jags current roster. It's almost entirely turned over in a span of 4 seasons. Pretty crazy:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...roster.htm
I pretty much agree but the superstars need to lead through example and Jalen was not that type of person. As much as I rooted against him, I think of Ray Lewis when speaking of building a winning culture. He didn't let their defense take a break. Sure, I got in trouble in ATL, but in the locker room and on the field he was a true leader. I think Devin Lloyd is a player that commands respect .... at least that's what was presented within that segment illustrating his 2 teammates getting killed and him coming back for his senor season, leading them to the conference title.
(05-04-2022, 06:53 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Go look at any successful franchise and you will see one thing in common. These teams have building block players who create a culture in the locker room. This becomes contagious and builds a sense of expectation from not only your coaches but your team mates. The Jaguars flat out fail to retain enough players to create any kind of culture here. Sure there is the Yannick and Ramsey headaches but they are rare. I do agree most players the Jags draft do not deserve a second contract. With that said, every offseason we let some players walk that are real head scratchers. Go back to our last winning season there are only a couple players left. This team has got to get a group of solid players to build upon. Insane when you look at the turn around in the last 5 years.
Let's go back to out last good season in over a decade in 2017. Look at the 2017 roster and then look at the Jags current roster. It's almost entirely turned over in a span of 4 seasons. Pretty crazy:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...roster.htm
Welcome to the party. I've been lamenting this for years.
(05-04-2022, 07:43 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (05-04-2022, 06:53 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Go look at any successful franchise and you will see one thing in common. These teams have building block players who create a culture in the locker room. This becomes contagious and builds a sense of expectation from not only your coaches but your team mates. The Jaguars flat out fail to retain enough players to create any kind of culture here. Sure there is the Yannick and Ramsey headaches but they are rare. I do agree most players the Jags draft do not deserve a second contract. With that said, every offseason we let some players walk that are real head scratchers. Go back to our last winning season there are only a couple players left. This team has got to get a group of solid players to build upon. Insane when you look at the turn around in the last 5 years.
Let's go back to out last good season in over a decade in 2017. Look at the 2017 roster and then look at the Jags current roster. It's almost entirely turned over in a span of 4 seasons. Pretty crazy:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...roster.htm
Welcome to the party. I've been lamenting this for years.
Maybe the
lack of that culture is what motivated them to look for greener pasture?
There hasn't been much to retain. And the one home grown home run we had was Jalen, and old man Coughlin screwed that one up.
(05-04-2022, 06:53 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Go look at any successful franchise and you will see one thing in common. These teams have building block players who create a culture in the locker room. This becomes contagious and builds a sense of expectation from not only your coaches but your team mates. The Jaguars flat out fail to retain enough players to create any kind of culture here. Sure there is the Yannick and Ramsey headaches but they are rare. I do agree most players the Jags draft do not deserve a second contract. With that said, every offseason we let some players walk that are real head scratchers. Go back to our last winning season there are only a couple players left. This team has got to get a group of solid players to build upon. Insane when you look at the turn around in the last 5 years.
Let's go back to out last good season in over a decade in 2017. Look at the 2017 roster and then look at the Jags current roster. It's almost entirely turned over in a span of 4 seasons. Pretty crazy:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...roster.htm
The issue/w this kind of comment is that the fact of us having multiple HCs and GMs within the past 10 years is ignored by most. Each coach has come in and purged the roster to their liking of which said non retained players has departed. Alot of players has chosen to depart even when we tried to retain them. Hopefully this trend will come to an end.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
(05-05-2022, 04:59 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]There hasn't been much to retain. And the one home grown home run we had was Jalen, and old man Coughlin screwed that one up.
Good. Glad he did. Ramsey is a narcissistic lowlife who didn't deserve to wear the teal. Coughlin's hardtail stance exposed Ramsey for what he is: a me-centered, lying, overrated man-child. If Caldwell hadn't been a complete dunce at drafting, we wouldn't still be having this discussion.
(05-05-2022, 06:58 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (05-05-2022, 04:59 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]There hasn't been much to retain. And the one home grown home run we had was Jalen, and old man Coughlin screwed that one up.
Good. Glad he did. Ramsey is a narcissistic lowlife who didn't deserve to wear the teal. Coughlin's hardtail stance exposed Ramsey for what he is: a me-centered, lying, overrated man-child. If Caldwell hadn't been a complete dunce at drafting, we wouldn't still be having this discussion.
What the heck does that mean? He didn't deserve to wear the colors of a team that finished in last place 2 years in a row but he does deserve to wear the colors of the team winning the Super Bowl? I don't quite understand what your comment means.
As much as I detest Jalen Ramsey, I don’t blame him one bit for getting the hell out of dodge. I would have too in that situation. Let’s face it, the Jacksonville Jaguars organization has been deeply dysfunctional for a long time. By sheer luck of minimal injuries and the leadership of Calais Campbell were we able to get as far as we did in 2017. Any other year has been disastrous both organizationally and career-wise for the players. Ramsey left an abusive relationship to save himself and I won’t fault him for that.
(05-05-2022, 08:22 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]As much as I detest Jalen Ramsey, I don’t blame him one bit for getting the hell out of dodge. I would have too in that situation. Let’s face it, the Jacksonville Jaguars organization has been deeply dysfunctional for a long time. By sheer luck of minimal injuries and the leadership of Calais Campbell were we able to get as far as we did in 2017. Any other year has been disastrous both organizationally and career-wise for the players. Ramsey left an abusive relationship to save himself and I won’t fault him for that.
Agreed. He showed emotion one game towards the end of his rookie season letting it known he was tired of losing while he was playing exceptionally well for a rookie. He knew his worth and got out of jacksonville. Always nice to reference back to when he said the day he got traded was one of the best days of his life
if the jags had the right owner even with roster changeing so much they could still have a winning season. Yes packers keep loseing in the playoffs,but when was the last time they had back to back loseing seasons?
it was 2017,and 2018 packers had back to back loseing seasons.
(05-05-2022, 08:06 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (05-05-2022, 06:58 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]Good. Glad he did. Ramsey is a narcissistic lowlife who didn't deserve to wear the teal. Coughlin's hardtail stance exposed Ramsey for what he is: a me-centered, lying, overrated man-child. If Caldwell hadn't been a complete dunce at drafting, we wouldn't still be having this discussion.
What the heck does that mean? He didn't deserve to wear the colors of a team that finished in last place 2 years in a row but he does deserve to wear the colors of the team winning the Super Bowl? I don't quite understand what your comment means.
The comment is pretty self-explanatory. He is a detestable scumbag who did not deserve to be on the Jaguars. Whether we played well or played bad. I don’t really care whose colors he’s wearing now. Or if he won a Super Bowl ring because he was on a good team. The Rams won with him not because of him. He is a highly talented player who seldom plays up to his talent level.
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(05-04-2022, 06:53 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Go look at any successful franchise and you will see one thing in common. These teams have building block players who create a culture in the locker room. This becomes contagious and builds a sense of expectation from not only your coaches but your team mates. The Jaguars flat out fail to retain enough players to create any kind of culture here. Sure there is the Yannick and Ramsey headaches but they are rare. I do agree most players the Jags draft do not deserve a second contract. With that said, every offseason we let some players walk that are real head scratchers. Go back to our last winning season there are only a couple players left. This team has got to get a group of solid players to build upon. Insane when you look at the turn around in the last 5 years.
Let's go back to out last good season in over a decade in 2017. Look at the 2017 roster and then look at the Jags current roster. It's almost entirely turned over in a span of 4 seasons. Pretty crazy:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...roster.htm
Yeah, this was what made sending Calais to the Ravens so difficult. He was that elder statesman that kept everyone focused and unified. The D is so young now, I don't know that anyone has established themselves as that voice/face of the D, Allen included. It will be interesting to see who steps into that role.
The offense is gravitating around TLaw (as it should), and he appears to be up to the task, although he's got a ways to go before earning that grizzled veteran status.
(05-04-2022, 08:54 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-04-2022, 07:43 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Welcome to the party. I've been lamenting this for years.
Maybe the lack of that culture is what motivated them to look for greener pasture?
It's kind of a cyclical thing. Young team with no veteran leaders to tend the flock, so culture suffers, players leave, and team again is young with no veterans to tend the flock, etc.
I think it's also a characteristic within each player. Some enjoy being part of the group, taking the role as leader, or latching on to coaches to learn as much as they can; others prefer more solitary routes. Both types are fine, as long as they can exist in harmony.
Different regime now.
I don't see any relevancy of prior retention issues to our current FO/HC.
Salary cap will be the issue moving forward IMO.
(05-05-2022, 06:58 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (05-05-2022, 04:59 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]There hasn't been much to retain. And the one home grown home run we had was Jalen, and old man Coughlin screwed that one up.
Good. Glad he did. Ramsey is a narcissistic lowlife who didn't deserve to wear the teal. Coughlin's hardtail stance exposed Ramsey for what he is: a me-centered, lying, overrated man-child. If Caldwell hadn't been a complete dunce at drafting, we wouldn't still be having this discussion.
His hardtail stance exposed Ramsey? So him paying our trash can of a quarterback money after a season in which the defense did all the work was a hardtail stance? Or was it complete ignorance? Jalen was the key for the only success we've had in nearly 15 years and Coughlin decided to extend Blake Bortles who was already a liability by this point. Meanwhile guys like Jalen and Yannick we're completely overlooked for extensions or pay raises if you will.
Not only did that complete moron completely disrespect the good young players on our team, he completely set us backwards even prior to the 2017 season by taking Leonard Fournette over Deshaun Watson or Mahomes.. ofcourse this could also have been some of Caldwells doing based on the fact that he didn't want to give up on the QB he drafted, but either way whomever made that mistake cost us big time. Had the defense remained the same with the addition of either of those 2 qbs I think it's safe to assume we probably would have had an even better record and likely a superbowl win to our name. We would more than likely also still have guys like Yannick, Jalen etc on our team as cornerstones.
But sure, let's praise the guy because he was a decent coach 20+ years ago.. Completely forget that he got fired for ruining our cap position back then (shocker, makes poor decisions paying his players) and pretend like he's some legend. He ruined our team, end of story.
I think it's absolutely histerical how nobody trashes Coughlin/Caldwell for taking Fournette in the top 10, but absolutely crapped all over Balke/Urban for taking ETN (who tbh with you, is a better prospect than Fournette was) at 25. Such a short seighted group of people on this board I swear.
Oh and let's not forget the future HOF selection of Taven Bryan. Thanks Tom
(05-05-2022, 09:17 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (05-05-2022, 08:06 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]What the heck does that mean? He didn't deserve to wear the colors of a team that finished in last place 2 years in a row but he does deserve to wear the colors of the team winning the Super Bowl? I don't quite understand what your comment means.
The comment is pretty self-explanatory. He is a detestable scumbag who did not deserve to be on the Jaguars. Whether we played well or played bad. I don’t really care whose colors he’s wearing now. Or if he won a Super Bowl ring because he was on a good team. The Rams won with him not because of him. He is a highly talented player who seldom plays up to his talent level.
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Well considering he's been playing at a level regarded as the best CB in football since 2017, what exactly do you think his talent level is? There's not much more he could be.
(05-08-2022, 11:30 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (05-05-2022, 09:17 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]The comment is pretty self-explanatory. He is a detestable scumbag who did not deserve to be on the Jaguars. Whether we played well or played bad. I don’t really care whose colors he’s wearing now. Or if he won a Super Bowl ring because he was on a good team. The Rams won with him not because of him. He is a highly talented player who seldom plays up to his talent level.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well considering he's been playing at a level regarded as the best CB in football since 2017, what exactly do you think his talent level is? There's not much more he could be.
He gets beat by receivers on a regular basis. And last year's playoffs were a good example of that. And often when he gets beat, he blames others. I don't really care what the lazy talking heads credit him for. There is no Ramsey Island.
(05-08-2022, 11:22 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (05-05-2022, 06:58 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]Good. Glad he did. Ramsey is a narcissistic lowlife who didn't deserve to wear the teal. Coughlin's hardtail stance exposed Ramsey for what he is: a me-centered, lying, overrated man-child. If Caldwell hadn't been a complete dunce at drafting, we wouldn't still be having this discussion.
His hardtail stance exposed Ramsey? So him paying our trash can of a quarterback money after a season in which the defense did all the work was a hardtail stance? Or was it complete ignorance? Jalen was the key for the only success we've had in nearly 15 years and Coughlin decided to extend Blake Bortles who was already a liability by this point. Meanwhile guys like Jalen and Yannick we're completely overlooked for extensions or pay raises if you will.
Not only did that complete moron completely disrespect the good young players on our team, he completely set us backwards even prior to the 2017 season by taking Leonard Fournette over Deshaun Watson or Mahomes.. ofcourse this could also have been some of Caldwells doing based on the fact that he didn't want to give up on the QB he drafted, but either way whomever made that mistake cost us big time. Had the defense remained the same with the addition of either of those 2 qbs I think it's safe to assume we probably would have had an even better record and likely a superbowl win to our name. We would more than likely also still have guys like Yannick, Jalen etc on our team as cornerstones.
But sure, let's praise the guy because he was a decent coach 20+ years ago.. Completely forget that he got fired for ruining our cap position back then (shocker, makes poor decisions paying his players) and pretend like he's some legend. He ruined our team, end of story.
I think it's absolutely histerical how nobody trashes Coughlin/Caldwell for taking Fournette in the top 10, but absolutely crapped all over Balke/Urban for taking ETN (who tbh with you, is a better prospect than Fournette was) at 25. Such a short seighted group of people on this board I swear.
Oh and let's not forget the future HOF selection of Taven Bryan. Thanks Tom
By all means, go off on Coughlin all you want. But who exactly are you blaming those picks on? Him or Caldwell? You can't have it both ways. There were bad/questionable picks while Coughlin was here. There were bad/questionable picks after he left. A blind monkey could have made better use of the picks we got from the Ramsey deal than what we wound up with.
My response was specifically about Ramsey, not doing a post mortem on the whole era and regime. "Disrespect" him? How about that arrogant prick respect his coach and his GM. I could not care less that his little feelings got hurt. Comport yourself like a pro. Be accountable. Stop blaming your teammates when things go wrong. Stop faking injuries to get your way. There has not been a single moment that I've regretted them shipping his butt to LA.
I love when people keep spouting "Culture" as if it means anything.
Explain culture now. Explain it and how to create it cultivate it. Now. Do it.
You can't because it's a [BLEEP] word like synergy.