Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Spare me the Constitution BS. That thing is actively being eroded by establishment politicians and has been for years.

Trump is a narcissist and a liar, which was a good thing for America. His narcissism ended up being a good thing because he doesn't have his identity connected to the ruling elites. He felt spurned by them and wanted to get back at them. It also makes the lies easy to spot, because they are primarily about himself and not very well crafted, and it also caused him to want to make America the best country in the world, not because he's altruistic, but because he identifies with it and feels compelled to do so.

Trump wanted America to be strong, so he put policies in place that helped Americans get strong. So, yeah... he lies. He will exploit stuff in his own interest when he can get aways. However, all eyes were watching, and he was easily the most scrutinized President in my lifetime, which is also a good thing. 24/7 scrutiny also drew attention to his lies, but he never lied about helping America get better. More jobs, more houses, better economy, better wages, better competition, better foreign policy, better patriotism. I don't really care if he has the biggest hands in the world like the media did, but it was pretty obvious that life was better outside of having to listen to establishment elites [BLEEP] about him constantly and his dumb tweets.

I don't really want a guy like Trump running the country, but I want our politicians to make laws in OUR best interest and that just ain't happening. The ruling establishment in this country are the real threat to the common America, because they have shown over and over that they will get rich off our back, and don't care about our interests at all. We are sheep to be slaughtered (hyperbole admitted). We can all see the ways Trump is broken, but there is a sizeable faction that just doesn't want to acknowledge how corrupt our system is. So, as much as I think Trump is uncouth and undignified, he is better for the average American in almost every way. I would prefer a eloquent, classy politician, but it definitely makes the lies harder to see. Not sure it's worth it.

Hey, and if everyone can remember that the Constitution is important as long as Trump's in office, that's a plus, too.

(07-03-2022, 03:05 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-03-2022, 02:19 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Trump is a man so transparently dishonest it beggars belief.  And yet, seemingly intelligent people seem to think he's the only honest person on the planet and the only person who can save us from corruption.  It is one of the strangest things I've ever seen.

He's not honest, but he was the first in some time to do what was best for America. And so many fought against him for it because...well, they don't like America all that much. The worst are those who have convinced themselves that opposing Trump because of his flaws was more important than defending his unwavering support of this Country.

Well said!

---

(07-03-2022, 04:57 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Spare me the Constitution BS. That thing is actively being eroded by establishment politicians and has been for years.

Trump is a narcissist and a liar, which was a good thing for America. His narcissism ended up being a good thing because he doesn't have his identity connected to the ruling elites. He felt spurned by them and wanted to get back at them. It also makes the lies easy to spot, because they are primarily about himself and not very well crafted, and it also caused him to want to make America the best country in the world, not because he's altruistic, but because he identifies with it and feels compelled to do so.

Trump wanted America to be strong, so he put policies in place that helped Americans get strong. So, yeah... he lies. He will exploit stuff in his own interest when he can get aways. However, all eyes were watching, and he was easily the most scrutinized President in my lifetime, which is also a good thing. 24/7 scrutiny also drew attention to his lies, but he never lied about helping America get better. More jobs, more houses, better economy, better wages, better competition, better foreign policy, better patriotism. I don't really care if he has the biggest hands in the world like the media did, but it was pretty obvious that life was better outside of having to listen to establishment elites [BLEEP] about him constantly and his dumb tweets.

I don't really want a guy like Trump running the country, but I want our politicians to make laws in OUR best interest and that just ain't happening. The ruling establishment in this country are the real threat to the common America, because they have shown over and over that they will get rich off our back, and don't care about our interests at all. We are sheep to be slaughtered (hyperbole admitted). We can all see the ways Trump is broken, but there is a sizeable faction that just doesn't want to acknowledge how corrupt our system is. So, as much as I think Trump is uncouth and undignified, he is better for the average American in almost every way. I would prefer a eloquent, classy politician, but it definitely makes the lies harder to see. Not sure it's worth it.

Hey, and if everyone can remember that the Constitution is important as long as Trump's in office, that's a plus, too.

Sums it up perfectly!

(07-03-2022, 04:57 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Spare me the Constitution BS. That thing is actively being eroded by establishment politicians and has been for years.

Trump is a narcissist and a liar, which was a good thing for America. His narcissism ended up being a good thing because he doesn't have his identity connected to the ruling elites. He felt spurned by them and wanted to get back at them. It also makes the lies easy to spot, because they are primarily about himself and not very well crafted, and it also caused him to want to make America the best country in the world, not because he's altruistic, but because he identifies with it and feels compelled to do so.

Trump wanted America to be strong, so he put policies in place that helped Americans get strong. So, yeah... he lies. He will exploit stuff in his own interest when he can get aways. However, all eyes were watching, and he was easily the most scrutinized President in my lifetime, which is also a good thing. 24/7 scrutiny also drew attention to his lies, but he never lied about helping America get better. More jobs, more houses, better economy, better wages, better competition, better foreign policy, better patriotism. I don't really care if he has the biggest hands in the world like the media did, but it was pretty obvious that life was better outside of having to listen to establishment elites [BLEEP] about him constantly and his dumb tweets.

I don't really want a guy like Trump running the country, but I want our politicians to make laws in OUR best interest and that just ain't happening. The ruling establishment in this country are the real threat to the common America, because they have shown over and over that they will get rich off our back, and don't care about our interests at all. We are sheep to be slaughtered (hyperbole admitted). We can all see the ways Trump is broken, but there is a sizeable faction that just doesn't want to acknowledge how corrupt our system is. So, as much as I think Trump is uncouth and undignified, he is better for the average American in almost every way. I would prefer a eloquent, classy politician, but it definitely makes the lies harder to see. Not sure it's worth it.

Hey, and if everyone can remember that the Constitution is important as long as Trump's in office, that's a plus, too.

The constitution is intentionally elastic about unenumerated rights, due process, necessary and proper, and interstate commerce.  I agree with you that these elastic clauses have been abused.  This is because it is too hard to amend the constitution, so it has been more expedient to stretch its elastic clauses and falsely claim they are living.
But it's not elastic at all about how to pick the next President.  The current President doesn't just get to speak votes, fraudulent or otherwise, into existence.  The Vice President doesn't get to unilaterally decide which electoral votes count and which don't.   He merely presides while Congress decides.  You know this.

(07-03-2022, 02:19 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Trump is a man so transparently dishonest it beggars belief.  And yet, seemingly intelligent people seem to think he's the only honest person on the planet and the only person who can save us from corruption.  It is one of the strangest things I've ever seen.

All politicians lie. The difference is exactly what you said. Everyone and their dead grandmother knew he was dishonest but they also knew his policies were helping this country and it's people as a whole as compared to all the 'special interest groups' our current president caters to while weakening the country on both foreign and domestic sides.

I don't like Trump but he is a WYSIWYG kind of person. He couldn't hide who he is if he tried. I'd rather have a transparently dishonest POTUS with strong pro American policies than one who smiles to my face and says all the 'right' things then turns around and stabs me and this country in the back. 

If he runs again it's going to be chaos that I'm not looking forward to.

(07-03-2022, 06:16 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-03-2022, 02:19 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Trump is a man so transparently dishonest it beggars belief.  And yet, seemingly intelligent people seem to think he's the only honest person on the planet and the only person who can save us from corruption.  It is one of the strangest things I've ever seen.

All politicians lie. The difference is exactly what you said. Everyone and their dead grandmother knew he was dishonest but they also knew his policies were helping this country and it's people as a whole as compared to all the 'special interest groups' our current president caters to while weakening the country on both foreign and domestic sides.

I don't like Trump but he is a WYSIWYG kind of person. He couldn't hide who he is if he tried. I'd rather have a transparently dishonest POTUS with strong pro American policies than one who smiles to my face and says all the 'right' things then turns around and stabs me and this country in the back. 

If he runs again it's going to be chaos that I'm not looking forward to.

I think we all agree on that, except, Trump was not that person.

(07-03-2022, 06:22 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-03-2022, 06:16 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]All politicians lie. The difference is exactly what you said. Everyone and their dead grandmother knew he was dishonest but they also knew his policies were helping this country and it's people as a whole as compared to all the 'special interest groups' our current president caters to while weakening the country on both foreign and domestic sides.

I don't like Trump but he is a WYSIWYG kind of person. He couldn't hide who he is if he tried. I'd rather have a transparently dishonest POTUS with strong pro American policies than one who smiles to my face and says all the 'right' things then turns around and stabs me and this country in the back. 

If he runs again it's going to be chaos that I'm not looking forward to.

I think we all agree on that, except, Trump was not that person.

Lol, history and current events say otherwise.

(07-03-2022, 04:55 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

---

(07-03-2022, 03:05 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]He's not honest, but he was the first in some time to do what was best for America. And so many fought against him for it because...well, they don't like America all that much. The worst are those who have convinced themselves that opposing Trump because of his flaws was more important than defending his unwavering support of this Country.

If only he supported the constitution as much as he supposedly supported the country.

If you ever discover actual proof that he doesn't, feel free to post the evidence.

(07-03-2022, 05:41 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-03-2022, 04:57 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Spare me the Constitution BS. That thing is actively being eroded by establishment politicians and has been for years.

Trump is a narcissist and a liar, which was a good thing for America. His narcissism ended up being a good thing because he doesn't have his identity connected to the ruling elites. He felt spurned by them and wanted to get back at them. It also makes the lies easy to spot, because they are primarily about himself and not very well crafted, and it also caused him to want to make America the best country in the world, not because he's altruistic, but because he identifies with it and feels compelled to do so.

Trump wanted America to be strong, so he put policies in place that helped Americans get strong. So, yeah... he lies. He will exploit stuff in his own interest when he can get aways. However, all eyes were watching, and he was easily the most scrutinized President in my lifetime, which is also a good thing. 24/7 scrutiny also drew attention to his lies, but he never lied about helping America get better. More jobs, more houses, better economy, better wages, better competition, better foreign policy, better patriotism. I don't really care if he has the biggest hands in the world like the media did, but it was pretty obvious that life was better outside of having to listen to establishment elites [BLEEP] about him constantly and his dumb tweets.

I don't really want a guy like Trump running the country, but I want our politicians to make laws in OUR best interest and that just ain't happening. The ruling establishment in this country are the real threat to the common America, because they have shown over and over that they will get rich off our back, and don't care about our interests at all. We are sheep to be slaughtered (hyperbole admitted). We can all see the ways Trump is broken, but there is a sizeable faction that just doesn't want to acknowledge how corrupt our system is. So, as much as I think Trump is uncouth and undignified, he is better for the average American in almost every way. I would prefer a eloquent, classy politician, but it definitely makes the lies harder to see. Not sure it's worth it.

Hey, and if everyone can remember that the Constitution is important as long as Trump's in office, that's a plus, too.

The constitution is intentionally elastic about unenumerated rights, due process, necessary and proper, and interstate commerce.  I agree with you that these elastic clauses have been abused.  This is because it is too hard to amend the constitution, so it has been more expedient to stretch its elastic clauses and falsely claim they are living.
But it's not elastic at all about how to pick the next President.  The current President doesn't just get to speak votes, fraudulent or otherwise, into existence.  The Vice President doesn't get to unilaterally decide which electoral votes count and which don't.   He merely presides while Congress decides.  You know this.

It is at least plausible that this election was manipulated to oust Trump. There were enough shenanigans that any critical person should want a thorough examination of the process. I am willing to accept every counter argument to the narrative AFTER an exhaustive and transparent effort was made to explain the disparities. People who say this is unnecessary do so on two primary charges: The courts didn't hear Trump and the declaration that this was the most secure election in US history. The argument from the court has precedent and judicial reasoning, but it's not the dagger people think. The claim that this was the most secure election in US history is ridiculous on its face, and that that was claimed before there was even an investigation should set off alarms, but half the country won't even be critical of it. 

The most exploited cheats have been historically done via mail in ballots. It's the least secure way to vote, which was a fact before we started it. We had massive amounts of election influence from big tech companies and verifiable censoring of information that could go out to the masses. We have admission in the form of journalism that their goal was to oust Trump. You have video evidence of people ballot harvesting, possibly to the effect of tens of thousands in swing states. You have blue districts banning all republican overseers. You have vehicles showing up to election sites in the middle of the night and unloading many boxes. You have polls claiming they are closed, then resuming with a skeleton crew for the night. 

You have historic voting anomalies and numbers that don't make any sense compared to any other election. Only the densely blue districts in blue swing states showed up in record numbers to vote for Biden. Almost every blue district had numbers similar or lower than Clinton. Additionally, you have a Republican president that did better than any other republican with minority groups and had people turn out to vote for him in record numbers. You have election officials in swing states bypassing their state congress to make new voting rules because of the "pandemic." And Biden, a president who had almost no one show up to his rallies, outperformed Barrack Obama.

Any one of those things might be explained away. The collection of them, discovered relatively quickly, should be enough of a coincidence to have a legitimate talk about the security of our elections in our news organizations, and a massive investigation swing state voting and turnout. Instead, we get told it's the Big Lie and that the election is the most secure in history less that one week from the due date.... while votes were still being counted. And, like magic, every contested county got 10-20k ahead and the counting stopped. Get the [BLEEP] out of here. Trump is right to feel cheated, if not in actuality, by the effort our institutions put into openly and honestly pursuing potential fraud. It was a joke, and no serious democratic candidate would have been treated the same way with ALL of those coincidences above. It was clear that our major institutions were united in fervor and spite, even if the actions weren't coordinated.

Trump was right to be mad. Citizens that descended on the Capitol were right to be mad and right to protest. It got a bit out of hand and everyone who was violent deserves to be prosecuted. However, it was largely peaceful, especially when compared to the previous summer. Then you find out there were FBI informants and agents embedded in the most violent groups, and ANTIFA groups also coordinating to agitate the crowd. There are court documents that prove the former and video evidence of the latter. Then you find out that the Capitol Police let people in, via video evidence, and see they had many people in plain clothes talking with them and then going out into the crowd and showing them which door to enter. Most, if not all of those people were prosecuted for criminal trespassing. Again, compare that to the previous summer. You really think Jan 6th is the downfall of our Republic? That was lost a while ago, when people like you stopped holding out institutions accountable. 

Sure. Trump is a wrecking ball. We get it. But he was wrecking mostly those who are lying to us. Not us. We the people needed that. You will quibble over your manifestations of Trump's authoritarianism, while completely overlooking you own susceptibility to lies. Steele Dossier? Lie. Adam Schiff has proof Trump colluded with Russia? Lie. Capitol Police killed by fire extinguisher? Lie. Trump called Nazi's and white supremacists very fine people? Lie. Trump ordered people to be tear gassed for photo op? Lie. Lab leak theory? Lie. Trump ignored Russian bounties on US soldiers? Lie. Trump referred to all illegal immigrants as animals? Lie. Trump started the policy of locking kids in cages? Lie. Trump tried to wrestle the wheel from his driver? Lie. 

I mean, you guys fall for lie after lie FROM OUR OWN INSTITUTIONS. Now, you want to make a whole case on the GA phone call or that he planned an armed insurrection on the Capitol? You hinge these entire theories on his lack of eloquence but IGNORE out and out lies from your trusted news sources? Where is your track record about getting ANYTHING right about the guy other than it fits the narrative that was crafted and fed to you by a bunch of LIARS?

I honestly wonder how many lies are verifiable false that were delivered by the media. I bet we could get at least another 15.

So, to all you Trump defenders, I am pleading, can we not find someone else to run for President?  Why does it have to be Trump?  With all the incredible baggage he's accumulated, with all his incredible personal faults, that all of you admit he has, the lying, the narcissism, etc etc etc, can we not find someone else? 

The man is 76 years old.  He'll be 78 if he's sworn in again.  Same age as Biden was when he was sworn in.  

Can we not find someone else?

(07-03-2022, 06:22 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-03-2022, 06:16 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]All politicians lie. The difference is exactly what you said. Everyone and their dead grandmother knew he was dishonest but they also knew his policies were helping this country and it's people as a whole as compared to all the 'special interest groups' our current president caters to while weakening the country on both foreign and domestic sides.

I don't like Trump but he is a WYSIWYG kind of person. He couldn't hide who he is if he tried. I'd rather have a transparently dishonest POTUS with strong pro American policies than one who smiles to my face and says all the 'right' things then turns around and stabs me and this country in the back. 

If he runs again it's going to be chaos that I'm not looking forward to.

I think we all agree on that, except, Trump was not that person.

The level of delusion some people seem to be under regarding the guy is mind blowing. It comes across as performative.

(07-04-2022, 06:03 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So, to all you Trump defenders, I am pleading, can we not find someone else to run for President?  Why does it have to be Trump?  With all the incredible baggage he's accumulated, with all his incredible personal faults, that all of you admit he has, the lying, the narcissism, etc etc etc, can we not find someone else? 

The man is 76 years old.  He'll be 78 if he's sworn in again.  Same age as Biden was when he was sworn in.  

Can we not find someone else?

Why do you assume any and all who have "defended" his actions and/or maintained that he is not guilty of inciting an insurrection, want him to run again?

(07-04-2022, 07:27 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-04-2022, 06:03 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So, to all you Trump defenders, I am pleading, can we not find someone else to run for President?  Why does it have to be Trump?  With all the incredible baggage he's accumulated, with all his incredible personal faults, that all of you admit he has, the lying, the narcissism, etc etc etc, can we not find someone else? 

The man is 76 years old.  He'll be 78 if he's sworn in again.  Same age as Biden was when he was sworn in.  

Can we not find someone else?

Why do you assume any and all who have "defended" his actions and/or maintained that he is not guilty of inciting an insurrection, want him to run again?

I'm not assuming that.  Do you want him to run again?  If not, whom would you prefer?

Stop putting this on Trump supporters. The corruption in DC that continues is a direct result of you and people like you who will not hold the government accountable.

Admit that our government has been corrupted by elite interests, and that most of the candidates put before us care more about their interests than making American lives better. Admit that our media is complicit in this, lie constantly and shamelessly, and are uncredible and unworthy of our attention. Acknowledge that the election deserved to be investigated and the anomalies mentioned above deserved to be discussed on the national stage and demand that you will maintain this standard moving forward, even if you personally don't think anything happened. Acknowledge that January 6th was overblown and is being exploited for political gain. Vow not to support any candidate that contributes to the corruption of our system. You do that, and people won't need to vote for Trump again. How about you do your part?

(07-04-2022, 06:03 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So, to all you Trump defenders, I am pleading, can we not find someone else to run for President?  Why does it have to be Trump?  With all the incredible baggage he's accumulated, with all his incredible personal faults, that all of you admit he has, the lying, the narcissism, etc etc etc, can we not find someone else? 

The man is 76 years old.  He'll be 78 if he's sworn in again.  Same age as Biden was when he was sworn in.  

Can we not find someone else?

Most Trump voters agree.

(07-04-2022, 08:05 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Stop putting this on Trump supporters. The corruption in DC that continues is a direct result of you and people like you who will not hold the government accountable.

Admit that our government has been corrupted by elite interests, and that most of the candidates put before us care more about their interests than making American lives better. Admit that our media is complicit in this, lie constantly and shamelessly, and are uncredible and unworthy of our attention. Acknowledge that the election deserved to be investigated and the anomalies mentioned above deserved to be discussed on the national stage and demand that you will maintain this standard moving forward, even if you personally don't think anything happened. Acknowledge that January 6th was overblown and is being exploited for political gain. Vow not to support any candidate that contributes to the corruption of our system. You do that, and people won't need to vote for Trump again. How about you do your part?

I agree, there is a ton of corruption in DC, and the right wing supreme court is the main reason for it. When someone tries to tell me that the solution to corruption caused by right wing judicial activism is to push further to the right I can't take them seriously, because it's laughably wrong.

(07-04-2022, 06:03 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So, to all you Trump defenders, I am pleading, can we not find someone else to run for President?  Why does it have to be Trump?  With all the incredible baggage he's accumulated, with all his incredible personal faults, that all of you admit he has, the lying, the narcissism, etc etc etc, can we not find someone else? 

The man is 76 years old.  He'll be 78 if he's sworn in again.  Same age as Biden was when he was sworn in.  

Can we not find someone else?

Sure, give me someone else who is worthy and he or she will get my vote. It's your Party that's full of weaklings who can't produce a better candidate. Do something about it.

(07-04-2022, 10:16 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-04-2022, 06:03 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So, to all you Trump defenders, I am pleading, can we not find someone else to run for President?  Why does it have to be Trump?  With all the incredible baggage he's accumulated, with all his incredible personal faults, that all of you admit he has, the lying, the narcissism, etc etc etc, can we not find someone else? 

The man is 76 years old.  He'll be 78 if he's sworn in again.  Same age as Biden was when he was sworn in.  

Can we not find someone else?

Sure, give me someone else who is worthy and he or she will get my vote. It's your Party that's full of weaklings who can't produce a better candidate. Do something about it.

My party? I'm a Republican.

(07-04-2022, 10:20 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-04-2022, 10:16 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, give me someone else who is worthy and he or she will get my vote. It's your Party that's full of weaklings who can't produce a better candidate. Do something about it.

My party? I'm a Republican.

As is Trump.

(07-04-2022, 10:22 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-04-2022, 10:20 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]My party? I'm a Republican.

As is Trump.

So you say, "give me someone else who is worthy and they will get my vote."  Back to my original question- is there no one else?  Can you not see anyone else that you would vote for?  Is it Trump or no-one for you?  

Okay, simple question: Trump or DeSantis?  Which one would you prefer?