(10-10-2022, 08:49 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-10-2022, 04:41 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]Mike Dempsey noted today on 1010 that the last 14 or so offensive plays in the last 3+ minutes were all passes which were dictated by the circumstances of being down late. The run/pass mix during the bulk of the game was better than it looked by end of game but probably still should have ran it more earlier on.
It was a 30 pass vs 26 rush split before the last 3 possessions in which they threw it 17 straight times.
Thank you.
The failure of the passing game is what throws this team out of balance. You want to run more? Hit your passes.
It sounds like Bartch may be out for a spell. I'm keen to see if our run game remained as effective once he left, or if the team started focusing more on pass first once Shatley took over.
Something changed. Etienne was getting yards in bunches, and suddenly we stopped trying. There's gotta be a reason, hopefully it isn't just stubborn coaching.
(10-11-2022, 08:03 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]It sounds like Bartch may be out for a spell. I'm keen to see if our run game remained as effective once he left, or if the team started focusing more on pass first once Shatley took over.
Something changed. Etienne was getting yards in bunches, and suddenly we stopped trying. There's gotta be a reason, hopefully it isn't just stubborn coaching.
I'd like to see Lanen or Little there. We seen in camp Shatley isn't a very good guard, he a much better center.
I used to always love the coaches that would say they are going to put their best 5 starting lineman out there. It's very concerning if Little isn't one even with Bartch out
(10-10-2022, 10:57 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ] (10-10-2022, 08:49 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]It was a 30 pass vs 26 rush split before the last 3 possessions in which they threw it 17 straight times.
Thank you.
The failure of the passing game is what throws this team out of balance. You want to run more? Hit your passes.
The reason you should run more is because you aren't hitting your passes, if we are hitting most of our passes we don't need to run more lol
(10-11-2022, 08:29 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2022, 08:03 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]It sounds like Bartch may be out for a spell. I'm keen to see if our run game remained as effective once he left, or if the team started focusing more on pass first once Shatley took over.
Something changed. Etienne was getting yards in bunches, and suddenly we stopped trying. There's gotta be a reason, hopefully it isn't just stubborn coaching.
I'd like to see Lanen or Little there. We seen in camp Shatley isn't a very good guard, he a much better center.
I used to always love the coaches that would say they are going to put their best 5 starting lineman out there. It's very concerning if Little isn't one even with Bartch out
Van Lanen is dinged up too, not sure if he's ready to roll or not, but agree that if he can go, he and Shatley duke it out this week to earn the nod.
Little is a OT, let's not get fancy. If he gets hurt, what do we have to back up Cam or Taylor? I don't want to have him re-learn yet another position that we have two guys already versed in their roles at that spot. This isn't madden, and it's not just ones and zeros and rating scores battling a random number generator. I wouldn't pursue this route unless we had a situation like Bartch and Shatley or Van Lanen out for long period of time. At that point, we're going to have to pull out all the stops to keep the line intact.
(10-11-2022, 08:59 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2022, 08:29 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I'd like to see Lanen or Little there. We seen in camp Shatley isn't a very good guard, he a much better center.
I used to always love the coaches that would say they are going to put their best 5 starting lineman out there. It's very concerning if Little isn't one even with Bartch out
Van Lanen is dinged up too, not sure if he's ready to roll or not, but agree that if he can go, he and Shatley duke it out this week to earn the nod.
Little is a OT, let's not get fancy. If he gets hurt, what do we have to back up Cam or Taylor? I don't want to have him re-learn yet another position that we have two guys already versed in their roles at that spot. This isn't madden, and it's not just ones and zeros and rating scores battling a random number generator. I wouldn't pursue this route unless we had a situation like Bartch and Shatley or Van Lanen out for long period of time. At that point, we're going to have to pull out all the stops to keep the line intact.
If Lanen is good to go of course. Little has played LT his whole life, most good LT can slide in to LG with no problem. It's not like switching sides which is much harder. Little should have no problem sliding in to LG. You should always play your 5 best.
Guys cmon the problem of this team is exactly the opposite of what this thread suggest: Its in the passing game and more specifically in the Red Zone passing and the Intermediate Passing Game. The offense has been successful with dink and dunk passing, long play drives but has not been able to have quick scoring drives. Long drives are prone to hot and cold offenses as a mistake like a holding or a sack or two incompletions put you in bad down & distances quickly of and makes it more likely for you to have to convert 4th down. I would like to see the stats of how many 4th downs this team needed for a TD drive. Alone 2 of 3 TDs vs. The Colts and 2 of 4 TDs vs. The Chargers needed 4th down conversions. Lately we have not converted them anymore, 0-3 vs. Houston and are 22nd in the NFL with 36% 4th down conversion but 4th in NFL in 4th down attempts. These are signs of a inconsistent offense.
(10-10-2022, 10:57 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ] (10-10-2022, 08:49 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]It was a 30 pass vs 26 rush split before the last 3 possessions in which they threw it 17 straight times.
Thank you.
The failure of the passing game is what throws this team out of balance. You want to run more? Hit your passes.
Well, opposed to last year when you trotted out this same backwards logic, it actually somewhat applies to our current coach's philosophy.
You kept trying to use this last season as a way to bash the QB and it was asinine.
Now, we actually have a coach with a "pass to run" philosophy.
Unfortunately, he'd be well served to relinquish that philosophy in certain matchups and it appears he will not.
Pederson is smart about using short and intermediate passing to set up running lanes for his backs in subsequent plays.
This often means ZBS runs and other play designs meant to create space via misdirection and pre-snap movement.
We didn't really do any of that stuff last year by comparison.
2 issues with this approach:
1. If you aren't hitting those passes and you stick with this balance - you are robbing talented backs of valuable opportunity to move the ball and rushing your defense back out very quickly w/o rest
2. You don't really have to do much passing to set up those misdirection run plays - just run them - they work fine on their own without the set up
sidenote: Lest one be confused - the Pederson philosophy doesn't mean you have to pass on first down - it means he will call a particular balance of pass vs run to establish what he sees as better success for his run playbook
The concept of keeping defenses honest by doing multiple things from one look is age-old and there are lots of ways to skin the proverbial cat.
Personally - when our backs (or one of them even) is ripping off big gain after big gain - I'd much prefer to continue feeding them the ball than to switch it up and call three straight passes. Therein lies my only gripe with Doug thus far, and at this point it is still pretty minor.
(10-10-2022, 10:57 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ] (10-10-2022, 08:49 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]It was a 30 pass vs 26 rush split before the last 3 possessions in which they threw it 17 straight times.
Thank you.
The failure of the passing game is what throws this team out of balance. You want to run more? Hit your passes.
Did you learn anything about this bad take from yesterday's game?
Running is this teams bread and butter.. They abandoned the run, way too early.. ETN was on his way to a breakout game and JRob, was going to be ole reliable JRob, but they never got the chance..
When you have ETN & JRob, you gotta give them the carries, especially the way they were gashing the clots run defense.
(10-12-2022, 10:34 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-10-2022, 10:57 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you.
The failure of the passing game is what throws this team out of balance. You want to run more? Hit your passes.
Well, opposed to last year when you trotted out this same backwards logic, it actually somewhat applies to our current coach's philosophy.
You kept trying to use this last season as a way to bash the QB and it was asinine.
Now, we actually have a coach with a "pass to run" philosophy.
Unfortunately, he'd be well served to relinquish that philosophy in certain matchups and it appears he will not.
Pederson is smart about using short and intermediate passing to set up running lanes for his backs in subsequent plays.
This often means ZBS runs and other play designs meant to create space via misdirection and pre-snap movement.
We didn't really do any of that stuff last year by comparison.
2 issues with this approach:
1. If you aren't hitting those passes and you stick with this balance - you are robbing talented backs of valuable opportunity to move the ball and rushing your defense back out very quickly w/o rest
2. You don't really have to do much passing to set up those misdirection run plays - just run them - they work fine on their own without the set up
sidenote: Lest one be confused - the Pederson philosophy doesn't mean you have to pass on first down - it means he will call a particular balance of pass vs run to establish what he sees as better success for his run playbook
The concept of keeping defenses honest by doing multiple things from one look is age-old and there are lots of ways to skin the proverbial cat.
Personally - when our backs (or one of them even) is ripping off big gain after big gain - I'd much prefer to continue feeding them the ball than to switch it up and call three straight passes. Therein lies my only gripe with Doug thus far, and at this point it is still pretty minor.
(10-17-2022, 11:55 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-10-2022, 10:57 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you.
The failure of the passing game is what throws this team out of balance. You want to run more? Hit your passes.
Did you learn anything about this bad take from yesterday's game?
Honestly it feels more like the passing, play action, and running don't seem to play off each other enough. It feels pretty rare to see the defense be completely fooled by a play call, misdirections, or play action. Not sure if there are tendencies, tell ins formation/players on field, or what.
We ran the ball terrifically. We stopped the run perfectly. We still lost the game.
Run the ball, stop the run, win the game is an out-of-date model, at least if you are the Jaguars.
(10-17-2022, 12:58 PM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]We ran the ball terrifically. We stopped the run perfectly. We still lost the game.
Run the ball, stop the run, win the game is an out-of-date model, at least if you are the Jaguars.
Therein lies the problem though. They were down to their 3rd string RB yesterday. They had to have known they were going to scheme something up passing wise to make Ryan's life easier. For some reason, they just failed in stopping that easy underneath nonsense to Pittman.
Pittman is way too damn big to be giving clean, 5 yard off coverage releases to like that. A slant for a guy of his size even when in man-to-man coverage is tough to beat. So, the fact that they let his big [BLEEP] get away with that most of the game is on the coaching staff for failing to adjust.
The front four was atrocious as well. I get that Ryan was doing the three step, quick, in and out stuff. I get that. However, again, why did we not press more earlier on from the secondary? Just didn't make any sense.
It's almost as if they were expecting Ryan, a 15th year veteran, to just drop back with no effective pass rush and make mistakes with the football against zone coverages. That clearly didn't work.
We not only ran the ball effectively, Lawrence basically played a perfect game from a QB perspective. He did everything you're supposed to do right yesterday. This team, like most new teams in new systems with new faces involved. They don't know how to pull through in situational football yet. That comes from being there, losing some and winning some in those moments. This team hasn't been in these situations since 2017.
So, it'll come.
(10-17-2022, 02:15 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 12:58 PM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]We ran the ball terrifically. We stopped the run perfectly. We still lost the game.
Run the ball, stop the run, win the game is an out-of-date model, at least if you are the Jaguars.
Therein lies the problem though. They were down to their 3rd string RB yesterday. They had to have known they were going to scheme something up passing wise to make Ryan's life easier. For some reason, they just failed in stopping that easy underneath nonsense to Pittman.
Pittman is way too damn big to be giving clean, 5 yard off coverage releases to like that. A slant for a guy of his size even when in man-to-man coverage is tough to beat. So, the fact that they let his big [BLEEP] get away with that most of the game is on the coaching staff for failing to adjust.
The front four was atrocious as well. I get that Ryan was doing the three step, quick, in and out stuff. I get that. However, again, why did we not press more earlier on from the secondary? Just didn't make any sense.
It's almost as if they were expecting Ryan, a 15th year veteran, to just drop back with no effective pass rush and make mistakes with the football against zone coverages. That clearly didn't work.
We not only ran the ball effectively, Lawrence basically played a perfect game from a QB perspective. He did everything you're supposed to do right yesterday. This team, like most new teams in new systems with new faces involved. They don't know how to pull through in situational football yet. That comes from being there, losing some and winning some in those moments. This team hasn't been in these situations since 2017.
So, it'll come.
The 2 best plays I remember from the D came with just a 3 man rush. They flooded the passing lanes and Ryan looked lost trying to find a receiver - I wish they had done that more. Even when we knocked Ryan on his butt while blitzing, he still managed to get the ball out just in time to make a completion almost every time.
Stand by what I said. It aged pretty well. Then again the running game is coming around. Still can't convert short yardage tho.
(10-10-2022, 06:50 AM)Mandeezee Wrote: [ -> ] (10-10-2022, 02:20 AM)Big Dougy P Wrote: [ -> ]You're clueless if you think the defense is the issue. They gave up 13 points. The defense is the reason our team has only lost by 1 possesion in all 3 losses.
You're clueless if you don't understand what's happening. What you're seeing on Sunday's. They play very aggressive and blitz a lot, but this is twice now they've given up loooong drives for the winning score.
I'm not saying the defense is trash but there's concern there.
Been saying this since the Washington game when they gave up a 14-point lead in the fourth quarter
(10-17-2022, 05:21 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/_john_shipley/status...LDrSuBd-Xg
Thought Lloyd had a bad game but didn’t know it was THIS bad
With all those crossers he had to dodge receivers while trying to cover, otherwise he draws a flag every time for contact and gives them a fresh set of downs.
Caldwell will have to figure out something to counter that scheme or offenses will be running those types of plays for the rest of the season.