I don’t think Robinson is declining. They compliment each other well.
(10-19-2022, 08:16 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2022, 08:08 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]If he gets more touches, that means someone else gets less…..
JRob is declining as the year has gone on. (As the tweet explains). JRob is still useful sometimes but it’s clear ETN needs to be on the field more than JRob.
They are used differently
There's not enough sample to determine decline
Both are incredibly productive when employed well, but I'm all for giving more touches to the hot hand and right now it is ETN
Trying to make his good streak of play into a "Robinson is declining" assertion is a reach
It’s not a reach if you looked at the tweet above.
Out of 46 RBs that quality, JRob is 41st in yards after contact per attempt. (Last 3 weeks)
He’s 39th in broken tackle rate per attempt out of 46 RBs.
And no. I don’t hate JRob at all actually. There’s still a role for him on this team but it’s time to give ETN more touches and it appears Doug is with me on this one.
(10-19-2022, 08:29 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2022, 08:16 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]They are used differently
There's not enough sample to determine decline
Both are incredibly productive when employed well, but I'm all for giving more touches to the hot hand and right now it is ETN
Trying to make his good streak of play into a "Robinson is declining" assertion is a reach
It’s not a reach if you looked at the tweet above.
Out of 46 RBs that quality, JRob is 41st in yards after contact per attempt. (Last 3 weeks)
He’s 39th in broken tackle rate per attempt out of 46 RBs.
And no. I don’t hate JRob at all actually. There’s still a role for him on this team but it’s time to give ETN more touches and it appears Doug is with me on this one.
This should of been the plan from week 1, with either back. Doug is just now seeing he needs to run the ball more. Something alot of us have been saying since week 1. Their styles are much different and it's what makes them compliment each other so well. They will both get their share of carries
(10-19-2022, 08:29 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2022, 08:16 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]They are used differently
There's not enough sample to determine decline
Both are incredibly productive when employed well, but I'm all for giving more touches to the hot hand and right now it is ETN
Trying to make his good streak of play into a "Robinson is declining" assertion is a reach
It’s not a reach if you looked at the tweet above.
Out of 46 RBs that quality, JRob is 41st in yards after contact per attempt. (Last 3 weeks)
He’s 39th in broken tackle rate per attempt out of 46 RBs.
And no. I don’t hate JRob at all actually. There’s still a role for him on this team but it’s time to give ETN more touches and it appears Doug is with me on this one.
Yeah but that ranking could change with 1 carry. Let’s say in the upcoming Giants game he bounces off a would be tackler and busts one for about 60 for a TD. If he was in on the Hasty TD, then Robinson’s numbers would look a little better. Any of our backs could have scored on that play.
I understand the numbers thing but I still wouldn’t say Robinson is ‘declining’
(10-19-2022, 08:29 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2022, 08:16 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]They are used differently
There's not enough sample to determine decline
Both are incredibly productive when employed well, but I'm all for giving more touches to the hot hand and right now it is ETN
Trying to make his good streak of play into a "Robinson is declining" assertion is a reach
It’s not a reach if you looked at the tweet above.
Out of 46 RBs that quality, JRob is 41st in yards after contact per attempt. (Last 3 weeks)
He’s 39th in broken tackle rate per attempt out of 46 RBs.
And no. I don’t hate JRob at all actually. There’s still a role for him on this team but it’s time to give ETN more touches and it appears Doug is with me on this one.
meh
They run J-Rob into more traffic than they do ETN. Pretty obvious difference in the play package for the two.
It's gonna skew the numbers some.
We've seen J-Rob get tons of yardage after contact.
Maybe he's a little banged up or something at the moment - but I'm not taking him out of my game-plan over some 3 week stat line. I think you're reading too much into a tweet.
(10-19-2022, 08:39 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2022, 08:29 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]It’s not a reach if you looked at the tweet above.
Out of 46 RBs that quality, JRob is 41st in yards after contact per attempt. (Last 3 weeks)
He’s 39th in broken tackle rate per attempt out of 46 RBs.
And no. I don’t hate JRob at all actually. There’s still a role for him on this team but it’s time to give ETN more touches and it appears Doug is with me on this one.
Yeah but that ranking could change with 1 carry. Let’s say in the upcoming Giants game he bounces off a would be tackler and busts one for about 60 for a TD. If he was in on the Hasty TD, then Robinson’s numbers would look a little better. Any of our backs could have scored on that play.
I understand the numbers thing but I still wouldn’t say Robinson is ‘declining’
Hasty wasn’t touched so it wouldn’t count towards yards after contact but I do see what you’re saying.
I think there’s a role for JRob on this team but I think ETNs should be increased. If that means that JRobs role is decreased a little, so be it.
And I don’t just wanna give ETN runs. I want more screens and routes. He’s currently the best playmaker on the team.
(10-19-2022, 08:48 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]#3. That one's bigger than any of the other options.
#7 Keep doing what you're doing. The games are close. The difference between weeks 2-3 and 5-6 is that we didn't force the other team into mistakes. If we get a turnover, kill a drive, chances are we're talking about what worked instead of what didn't.
We need some sacks. The defense is not going to get any pressure unless blitz are called. Creative blitzing
(10-19-2022, 05:31 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]I think it may take human sacrifice...
![[Image: d17dbb8dc8437bc40c029889ebf09ed5.gif]](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221020/d17dbb8dc8437bc40c029889ebf09ed5.gif)
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
(10-19-2022, 04:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2022, 01:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Don't move the goalposts.
I didn't say "improve" - I said go from 2 wins to 5 wins.
You know damn well there are several teams out there who are not a few mistakes away from a 5-1 record. Yet you said "anyone in the league can say that."
No. No they can't.
We are a few mistakes away from a 5-1 record. Many are not.
Patriots couldn't accurately say that.
Steelers couldn't accurately say that.
Commanders couldn't accurately say that.
Panthers couldn't accurately say that.
Rams can't even say that accurately right now.
You can even make a case that the Cardinals have had more than just a few mistakes that caused 2 of their losses.
We are in a better situation than those teams. Our losses have been more preventable via simple execution of the plays and coverages being called.
Im not gonna go through every team. But ill go through your first 2. You dont move the goal post. They could of cut out a few mistakes and have 4 or 5 wins easily like us.
The Pats lost 1 game in OT, 1 game by 3 points and 1 game by 11 points. The Steelers lost 1 game in OT, 1 game by 3 points, and 1 game by 4 points. Its rare teams get blown out all the time
What fixable mistakes did each team commit in the close losses, or are you just looking at the final scores and assuming there was one?
(10-19-2022, 07:11 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2022, 09:01 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Run the ball. If it looks like the pass game is not working, which results in the D being on the field too long, go back to the run.
Why aren’t we utilizing our TEs more?
I would also like to know about the TE utilization. Maybe Trevor isn’t reading the field as good as he should. Maybe it’s simply their number isn’t getting called for whatever reason but Shannon Sharpe and other football gurus always say a QB’s best friend is the TE and a strong running game and play good defense. Engram has good speed to get up on the linebackers and make a move.
To the OP. Good post. I also think Griffin needs to be replaced for Herndon. Atleast Herndon can turn and run. You might want to bump Griffin down to a nickel package and put him in press in order to jam the WR3 at the line. He’s plenty physical enough but just can’t run.
Walker has to cut down…actually he has to STOP with the back breaker type penalties.
And yes Tim Jones needs more targets. If Tim comes in as your 4th or 5th WR, I think he’s better than the opposing team’s 4th or 5th CB. That’s a matchup you want.
I think the play calling has been pretty good. I love that Pederson uses a lot of presnap movement. I’m being petty here, but I think play action from under center is where it’s at. It allows your QB to hold the backers and safeties and allows timing routes. The shotgun stuff is where Lawrence likes to bail. And he is struggling against the blitz.
I also agree with the aggressiveness on 4th down. Our kicker has only missed 1 time and he has a live leg. Take the 3 points and get back after it on the next drive.
With a 17 game season, a bunch of stuff can still happen. This division is still there for the taking.
First LOL at Thannon the guru. Second, you're telling me a former TE is trying to hype up the TE position? @Now I've heard it all@
When Tim's on the field, it's probably not that we have 4 or 5 WR on the field. He's a backup, giving a starter a breather and probably only got that catch late because Agnew was gimpy. I'm not saying he's horrible, but there's probably a reason why Agnew got all the reps the week Zay couldn't run. Tim is probably busting his hump in practice, and coaches see him and know what he brings. If he's as good as the board hypes him to be, the coaches would have him on the field without the need for everyone to be howling his name.
I don't think our changes need to be radical. Get Foley back on the field. Pressure opposing QBs into incompletions and turnovers. Keep doing what we're doing on offense. It will work out. Trying to rewrite the playbook or jostle the roster is what you do when you're desperate, and desperation is far from where we are in this moment.
(10-19-2022, 08:14 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2022, 08:08 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]If he gets more touches, that means someone else gets less…..
JRob is declining as the year has gone on. (As the tweet explains). JRob is still useful sometimes but it’s clear ETN needs to be on the field more than JRob.
Not if you just add more carries for ETN, JRob will still get his. I think a big part of their success is both are staying fresh. "JRob is declining" lmao. He just turned 24, dude ain't declining lol
So we need to give more carries/touches to Etienne.
We need to involve TEs more.
We need more throws to Tim Jones.
I guess we need to pay the opposing offense to just punt on first down so we can magically get 20 extra plays a week on offense.
Frankly I don't care who touches the ball, as long as they get it across the goal line.
(10-19-2022, 08:19 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t think Robinson is declining. They compliment each other well.
I figured being in the RB room, weight room, locker room, etc would make them good friends, but glad to hear that JRob is so encouraging to his competition.
(The word you wanted was complement)
(10-19-2022, 08:29 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2022, 08:16 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]They are used differently
There's not enough sample to determine decline
Both are incredibly productive when employed well, but I'm all for giving more touches to the hot hand and right now it is ETN
Trying to make his good streak of play into a "Robinson is declining" assertion is a reach
It’s not a reach if you looked at the tweet above.
Out of 46 RBs that quality, JRob is 41st in yards after contact per attempt. (Last 3 weeks)
He’s 39th in broken tackle rate per attempt out of 46 RBs.
And no. I don’t hate JRob at all actually. There’s still a role for him on this team but it’s time to give ETN more touches and it appears Doug is with me on this one.
Look at his plays, though. How many are just 'run JRob up the gut for 3-5yds'
Not gonna break a lot of tackles if you run right into the pile. Ain't nothing wrong with 3-5yard runs, it's a big part of that ten minute drive on Sunday and many of the drives we've had this season.
I've never seen JRob as the home run hitter that Taylor or MJD were, but he's darn steady. I don't think anyone would characterize him as elusive, which is a big part of breaking tackles. Again, he's doing what he does - get yards, get chains moving, occasionally get a huge hole and rip up a 50 yard TD.
Out of curiosity, how do those numbers compare with his prior pre-injury seasons? Were the last three weeks cherry-picked to make that stat more prevalent than it may be? Are we discounting the first three weeks' defenses as anomalies or better/worse than the last three's, so as to say that he's doing worse against easier D, or that his early results were excusable because the Ds were so awful? I don't trust partial stats to tell a big-picture story.
(10-19-2022, 09:10 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2022, 08:48 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]#3. That one's bigger than any of the other options.
#7 Keep doing what you're doing. The games are close. The difference between weeks 2-3 and 5-6 is that we didn't force the other team into mistakes. If we get a turnover, kill a drive, chances are we're talking about what worked instead of what didn't.
We need some sacks. The defense is not going to get any pressure unless blitz are called. Creative blitzing
If that works, I'm all for it. Bottom line is the opposing QB needs to be in the turf (without a penalty, Travon!
)
JRob runs with vision and leverage. He's a smart runner who is fast enough but not a game breaker. ETN has athletic ability and more of a big play threat than JROB but he's learning how to run in the NFL whereas JRob showed up to his first day knowing that. They're a good tandem but we need the play calling to hit their strengths.
(10-20-2022, 08:44 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2022, 08:29 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]It’s not a reach if you looked at the tweet above.
Out of 46 RBs that quality, JRob is 41st in yards after contact per attempt. (Last 3 weeks)
He’s 39th in broken tackle rate per attempt out of 46 RBs.
And no. I don’t hate JRob at all actually. There’s still a role for him on this team but it’s time to give ETN more touches and it appears Doug is with me on this one.
Look at his plays, though. How many are just 'run JRob up the gut for 3-5yds'
Not gonna break a lot of tackles if you run right into the pile. Ain't nothing wrong with 3-5yard runs, it's a big part of that ten minute drive on Sunday and many of the drives we've had this season.
I've never seen JRob as the home run hitter that Taylor or MJD were, but he's darn steady. I don't think anyone would characterize him as elusive, which is a big part of breaking tackles. Again, he's doing what he does - get yards, get chains moving, occasionally get a huge hole and rip up a 50 yard TD.
Out of curiosity, how do those numbers compare with his prior pre-injury seasons? Were the last three weeks cherry-picked to make that stat more prevalent than it may be? Are we discounting the first three weeks' defenses as anomalies or better/worse than the last three's, so as to say that he's doing worse against easier D, or that his early results were excusable because the Ds were so awful? I don't trust partial stats to tell a big-picture story.
(10-19-2022, 09:10 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]We need some sacks. The defense is not going to get any pressure unless blitz are called. Creative blitzing
If that works, I'm all for it. Bottom line is the opposing QB needs to be in the turf (without a penalty, Travon! )
Before his injury, I think he was much better at breaking tackles and getting yards before contact. I was worried that JRob coming back early from his injury would lead to a slow decline in his play this season. I was shocked he came back as early as he did.
And before TebowHomer says I have always hated JRob, I definitely haven't. He was a very good running back before his injury and I was shocked they took ETN because they already had JRob. But once he tore his achilles, I was worried. It is extremely rare for players to come back from an achilles tear and it's almost a death sentence for running backs.
(10-20-2022, 08:58 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Before his injury, I think he was much better at breaking tackles and getting yards before contact. I was worried that JRob coming back early from his injury would lead to a slow decline in his play this season. I was shocked he came back as early as he did.
And before TebowHomer says I have always hated JRob, I definitely haven't. He was a very good running back before his injury and I was shocked they took ETN because they already had JRob. But once he tore his achilles, I was worried. It is extremely rare for players to come back from an achilles tear and it's almost a death sentence for running backs.
My only response would be to consider your expectations for JRob in contrast to his ability, then. Are you looking for him to be a tackle-breaking, side stepping back, or the plodder that grinds the D into a paste?
I'm ok if he's the bruiser. Let Etienne be the flash. But if our gameplan is to grind the D down, we gotta stick with the plan throughout the game. Those late runs are where you take advantage of a gassed DLine. Seems like too often, we start this way, but abandon it before we can reap the benefit.
(10-20-2022, 08:56 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]JRob runs with vision and leverage. He's a smart runner who is fast enough but not a game breaker. ETN has athletic ability and more of a big play threat than JROB but he's learning how to run in the NFL whereas JRob showed up to his first day knowing that. They're a good tandem but we need the play calling to hit their strengths.
He has a way of making guys miss in a very subtle way. I’ve watched would-be tacklers take horrible angles on him too many times to think it coincidence. He’s just not one to make exaggerated moves in an effort to fake guys out.
Fantasy has been predicting the demise of JRob and the ascent of Etienne all year, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if JRob has a big game in the coming weeks. Dude is good at football. No disrespect to Etienne who apparently is also good at football.
(10-19-2022, 08:08 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2022, 07:25 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Ooohh so you want to give him some of JRobs touches. Naw, JRob still needs his touches. You we just need to add some more for Travis
If he gets more touches, that means someone else gets less…..
JRob is declining as the year has gone on. (As the tweet explains). JRob is still useful sometimes but it’s clear ETN needs to be on the field more than JRob.
If the defense does a better job getting off the field, that means more touches for everyone. Against the colts, we only ran about 55 plays while they ran about 75 of them. That sucks.
(10-20-2022, 08:58 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2022, 08:44 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Look at his plays, though. How many are just 'run JRob up the gut for 3-5yds'
Not gonna break a lot of tackles if you run right into the pile. Ain't nothing wrong with 3-5yard runs, it's a big part of that ten minute drive on Sunday and many of the drives we've had this season.
I've never seen JRob as the home run hitter that Taylor or MJD were, but he's darn steady. I don't think anyone would characterize him as elusive, which is a big part of breaking tackles. Again, he's doing what he does - get yards, get chains moving, occasionally get a huge hole and rip up a 50 yard TD.
Out of curiosity, how do those numbers compare with his prior pre-injury seasons? Were the last three weeks cherry-picked to make that stat more prevalent than it may be? Are we discounting the first three weeks' defenses as anomalies or better/worse than the last three's, so as to say that he's doing worse against easier D, or that his early results were excusable because the Ds were so awful? I don't trust partial stats to tell a big-picture story.
If that works, I'm all for it. Bottom line is the opposing QB needs to be in the turf (without a penalty, Travon! )
Before his injury, I think he was much better at breaking tackles and getting yards before contact. I was worried that JRob coming back early from his injury would lead to a slow decline in his play this season. I was shocked he came back as early as he did.
And before TebowHomer says I have always hated JRob, I definitely haven't. He was a very good running back before his injury and I was shocked they took ETN because they already had JRob. But once he tore his achilles, I was worried. It is extremely rare for players to come back from an achilles tear and it's almost a death sentence for running backs.
I call bs on this. He's never ran faster than the 50 yarder he broke. Most of his runs are now runs up the middle, before this year he was getting Etiennes carries and a more variety of run calls. When he's in, if a run is called its likely going to be up the middle. It's comical you think he's on the decline because of a tweet you seen about the last 3 games. You have always doubted him since his rookie year and I've called you out on it multiple, it's nothing new. You're the only one on here that thinks he's on the decline, shocker lol
(10-20-2022, 08:12 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2022, 04:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Im not gonna go through every team. But ill go through your first 2. You dont move the goal post. They could of cut out a few mistakes and have 4 or 5 wins easily like us.
The Pats lost 1 game in OT, 1 game by 3 points and 1 game by 11 points. The Steelers lost 1 game in OT, 1 game by 3 points, and 1 game by 4 points. Its rare teams get blown out all the time
What fixable mistakes did each team commit in the close losses, or are you just looking at the final scores and assuming there was one?
All you have to do is look at the score. We arent the only team that is losing clise games. Maybe the one where they gave up the TD, or maybe the one where they turned the ball over. Games are usually won or lost by a couple mistakes. The teams that make the least amount of mistakes are usually the one that wins. So what the great coaches do is figure out a way to limit or lessen the mistakes. I know you have already said multiple times you don't think we should change anything even though we have lost 3 straight. “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”
(10-20-2022, 12:35 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2022, 08:58 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Before his injury, I think he was much better at breaking tackles and getting yards before contact. I was worried that JRob coming back early from his injury would lead to a slow decline in his play this season. I was shocked he came back as early as he did.
And before TebowHomer says I have always hated JRob, I definitely haven't. He was a very good running back before his injury and I was shocked they took ETN because they already had JRob. But once he tore his achilles, I was worried. It is extremely rare for players to come back from an achilles tear and it's almost a death sentence for running backs.
I call bs on this. He's never ran faster than the 50 yarder he broke. Most of his runs are now runs up the middle, before this year he was getting Etiennes carries and a more variety of run calls. When he's in, if a run is called its likely going to be up the middle. It's comical you think he's on the decline because of a tweet you seen about the last 3 games. You have always doubted him since his rookie year and I've called you out on it multiple, it's nothing new. You're the only one on here that thinks he's on the decline, shocker lol
Good grief you're dense.
I legit have never disliked JRob. Being objective about him doesn't mean I dislike him. I have never viewed him as a top 100 player. True. I have never once disliked him though. I think he's solid with good vision but if you think he's the same JRob pre-injury, I think you're wrong. I wouldn't give him a 2nd contract either because of his Achilles injury (which again, is notorious for ending running backs careers).
You can "call me out" on it all you want but at least have evidence that I have said he's a bad player. You won't find it because I've never said he's a bad player. What you do is take one thing I say about JRob as a criticism and immediately make it seem like I dislike him. But for the 100th time, I do not dislike JRob. I would like to see ETN with more touches because he's a better playmaker.