Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

The number one need right now is an NFL caliber pass rush. It would make the secondary that much more effective. A true number one receiver would be nice but that's already coming next season.

If we didn't get Lawrence last year, if I could take anyone in that draft and not Lawrence...... I'm not taking Chase, I'm not taking Waddle, I'm taking Micah Parsons

(11-20-2022, 09:03 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]The number one need right now is an NFL caliber pass rush. It would make the secondary that much more effective. A true number one receiver would be nice but that's already coming next season.

I can’t argue against it. It’s frustrating to use the number 1 pick on pass rush and not see much for it. I hope walker turns the corner the second half of this season.

https://twitter.com/jordan_reid/status/1...bfANu55yhg

This guy gets it

(11-22-2022, 07:49 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/jordan_reid/status/1...bfANu55yhg

This guy gets it

I was big on Johnston for quite a while since I get to see him play a lot.  I’m developing concerns though.  He’s undoubtedly a huge talent, but the guy always seems to get dinged up.  What’s going to happen when he starts playing with the big boys?

Wins. The #1 need for the Jaguars is wins.

(11-20-2022, 08:46 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-20-2022, 04:34 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I know some people are just saying "offense", but to me, you draft position by position.  Turning your weaknesses into strengths is the best way to improve a team.  I see our biggest needs as the following:

1.  Cornerback - We save $13 million by cutting Griffin, so he is all but gone.  I think Herndon sucks, but even if he didn't, he's a free agent too.  Claybrooks is good at special teams, but terrible at cornerback.  Brown is a seventh rounder who has played minimally.  This is a huge need.

2.  Pass Rusher - Ideally, this would come from up the middle of the defensive line, but however we improve the pass rush, we need to improve it.  The team is currently ranked 27th in sacks.  Development from Travon Walker will help but isn't enough.

3.  Wide Receiver - I like Ridley and Kirk, but ideally you want 3 good wide receivers.  It would be nice if Zay Jones could be our #4 receiver.

Ideally, I would want those positions as our Day 1 and Day 2 picks.  I will say that those positions are close enough in need that value would likely determine the order taken.

We have 2 fourth round picks this year.  My preference would be left guard.  It is a position that often drops in the draft.  I would love it if we got someone that could beat out Bartch.  If he doesn't, we can still use him for depth.

The other fourth rounder would likely be tight end for me.  I'm assuming Engram resigns, but even if so, I'm guessing Dan Arnold leaves.  We need a player to develop for the future.  Tight end is another position that often drops in the draft.  However, it is also a position that can take time to learn.  As such, I don't like the idea of letting Engram go and relying on a rookie as our opening day starter.

For the 5th-7th rounds, those are depth picks.  I will mention two positions.  I think we need a power running back.  I think it is one of the big factors that has hurt us in the red zone.  We don't have a great short yardage runner.  It would also be very beneficial on 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 situations.  The good news is that running backs sometimes drop and this is particularly true of one dimensional running backs.

I'll also mention kicker.  If there's one worthy of being drafted late, then draft him.

I also don't oppose using some of our late round picks to trade up.

Drafting defense is the surest way to keep us in single digit wins every year.

No, allowing your team's weaknesses to remain your team's weaknesses is the best way to remain a losing team.  The Jaguars had the lead in the 4th quarter in four games this year and the defense lost the game for us.  If we win those games, we're currently tied for the 2nd best record in the AFC and within 1 win of the top seeded playoff team.  This doesn't even reflect the game where our defense cost us an opportunity at overtime or the fact that quality defensive players would have helped us in quarters 1, 2, and 3 as well.  I'm not saying offense isn't important.  We need both offense and defense.  Trevor's growth is the biggest key for the offense.  As far as new players, we've already acquired Ridley for next year.  I've advocated using an early draft pick on another wide receiver, getting competition at left guard, resigning Engram and drafting other roll players and depth.  I would like to do more and if we can, great.  However, I like to be realistic in my expectations.  You only have so many draft picks and we're not in a good salary cap position, so you have to prioritize your team's biggest weaknesses position by position.  Turning your biggest weaknesses into strengths is the best way to improve a team.

If we're talking about 2023 - The whole #1 need thing is impossible to answer IMO because there are so many players that will either move on in FA - or must be retained in FA.

If they don't get a deal done with Taylor, then RT is your #1 need.

Are they gonna keep Williams at nickel or move him outside? If he plays nickel next year, CB is a huge need.

TE? They have no one coming back that is worth a flip unless they get deals done. Huge need.

When the dust settles from the spring FA period, we'll know much more about 2023 needs but it's tough to rank needs when we are uncertain which (and how many) positions will be lacking starters.

The two things the team CURRENTLY lacks the most are a CB2 and an interior pass rusher. Those would aid this team midseason more than anything else IMO.

We need a stud receiver. We need to see what we have in Lawrence and provide him with the tools necessary to show it.

(11-23-2022, 06:09 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-20-2022, 08:46 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Drafting defense is the surest way to keep us in single digit wins every year.

No, allowing your team's weaknesses to remain your team's weaknesses is the best way to remain a losing team.  The Jaguars had the lead in the 4th quarter in four games this year and the defense lost the game for us.  If we win those games, we're currently tied for the 2nd best record in the AFC and within 1 win of the top seeded playoff team.  This doesn't even reflect the game where our defense cost us an opportunity at overtime or the fact that quality defensive players would have helped us in quarters 1, 2, and 3 as well.  I'm not saying offense isn't important.  We need both offense and defense.  Trevor's growth is the biggest key for the offense.  As far as new players, we've already acquired Ridley for next year.  I've advocated using an early draft pick on another wide receiver, getting competition at left guard, resigning Engram and drafting other roll players and depth.  I would like to do more and if we can, great.  However, I like to be realistic in my expectations.  You only have so many draft picks and we're not in a good salary cap position, so you have to prioritize your team's biggest weaknesses position by position.  Turning your biggest weaknesses into strengths is the best way to improve a team.

A great offense and bad defense is better than an average offense and good defense.  I mean, you say Trevor's growth is the most important thing; if that's so then offense is the way to go for building your team until it's great and then you can focus on defense. Until then drafting defense before round 3 is wasting Trevor's years.

(11-25-2022, 07:07 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-23-2022, 06:09 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]No, allowing your team's weaknesses to remain your team's weaknesses is the best way to remain a losing team.  The Jaguars had the lead in the 4th quarter in four games this year and the defense lost the game for us.  If we win those games, we're currently tied for the 2nd best record in the AFC and within 1 win of the top seeded playoff team.  This doesn't even reflect the game where our defense cost us an opportunity at overtime or the fact that quality defensive players would have helped us in quarters 1, 2, and 3 as well.  I'm not saying offense isn't important.  We need both offense and defense.  Trevor's growth is the biggest key for the offense.  As far as new players, we've already acquired Ridley for next year.  I've advocated using an early draft pick on another wide receiver, getting competition at left guard, resigning Engram and drafting other roll players and depth.  I would like to do more and if we can, great.  However, I like to be realistic in my expectations.  You only have so many draft picks and we're not in a good salary cap position, so you have to prioritize your team's biggest weaknesses position by position.  Turning your biggest weaknesses into strengths is the best way to improve a team.

A great offense and bad defense is better than an average offense and good defense.  I mean, you say Trevor's growth is the most important thing; if that's so then offense is the way to go for building your team until it's great and then you can focus on defense. Until then drafting defense before round 3 is wasting Trevor's years.

Agreed. We need to go all in on offense next off season. A lot easier to pressure a QB when you hang 14 or 17 points on them early and force them into catch up mode. This offense can do that with Lawrence and Pederson. Just need to give him a little bit more time in the passing game and another viable and explosive receiving threat or two. All I want to hear next year is how hard it is to get all this great talent out on the football field at the same time with Lawrence for him to pick you apart with.

There's a ton of evidence from the past and presently that supports this path of developing your top flight QB. Polian built his team around Manning offensively early and often. The Jets did it for Wilson. The Patriots did it last year for Mac Jones at the TE position. Miami went up to bat for Tua and it's paying early dividends. Philadelphia went out and built around Hurts, etc.

(11-25-2022, 07:24 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-25-2022, 07:07 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]A great offense and bad defense is better than an average offense and good defense.  I mean, you say Trevor's growth is the most important thing; if that's so then offense is the way to go for building your team until it's great and then you can focus on defense. Until then drafting defense before round 3 is wasting Trevor's years.

Agreed. We need to go all in on offense next off season. A lot easier to pressure a QB when you hang 14 or 17 points on them early and force them into catch up mode. This offense can do that with Lawrence and Pederson. Just need to give him a little bit more time in the passing game and another viable and explosive receiving threat or two. All I want to hear next year is how hard it is to get all this great talent out on the football field at the same time with Lawrence for him to pick you apart with.

There's a ton of evidence from the past and presently that supports this path of developing your top flight QB. Polian built his team around Manning offensively early and often. The Jets did it for Wilson. The Patriots did it last year for Mac Jones at the TE position. Miami went up to bat for Tua and it's paying early dividends. Philadelphia went out and built around Hurts, etc.

All these teams also built their defense the same time while building their offense.  These teams haven't ignored their D.  They continue to build on both sides of the ball. That's how you build a team. Draft really good players regardless of which side of the ball and your team will continue to improve. You just have to draft good or great players. You you just draft offense to draft offense and pass up great players on defense while taking the lesser or average players on offense we will continue to spin our wheels

(11-25-2022, 09:20 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-25-2022, 07:24 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed. We need to go all in on offense next off season. A lot easier to pressure a QB when you hang 14 or 17 points on them early and force them into catch up mode. This offense can do that with Lawrence and Pederson. Just need to give him a little bit more time in the passing game and another viable and explosive receiving threat or two. All I want to hear next year is how hard it is to get all this great talent out on the football field at the same time with Lawrence for him to pick you apart with.

There's a ton of evidence from the past and presently that supports this path of developing your top flight QB. Polian built his team around Manning offensively early and often. The Jets did it for Wilson. The Patriots did it last year for Mac Jones at the TE position. Miami went up to bat for Tua and it's paying early dividends. Philadelphia went out and built around Hurts, etc.

All these teams also built their defense the same time while building their offense.  These teams haven't ignored their D.  They continue to build on both sides of the ball.  That's how you build a team.  Draft really good players regardless of which side of the ball and your team will continue to improve.  You just have to draft good or great players.  You you just draft offense to draft offense and pass up great players on defense while taking the lesser or average players on offense we will continue to spin our wheels

We have the 2nd most amount of cap space currently invested on defense in the NFL. The offense needs to be the focal point next year. The free agents we have leaving combined with age and overall performance would also reflect this need.

A lot of those teams built the defense, I agree. However, it wasn't until this off season where they recently added playmakers on offense that drastically changed their win/loss columns and their abilities to put up points early, thus, giving their defense the ability to pin their ears back, etc. 

We have three more divisional games to go. We're currently 1 - 2 in the division. If they can finish 4 - 2 or 3 - 3 I would be pleased with their efforts being made in one off season to primarily get good in the division against the ground game defensively.

If they get stomped out and finish 1 - 5 in the division? Somebody will have A LOT of explaining to do in January. However, this team has done enough between this recent off season and the draft picks made on defense for it to be more competent and capable. They're not that bad this year. They just lack experience which will come naturally and they clearly need to figure out something with their pass rush.

That shouldn't require this team to drop premium draft picks in next year's draft. That line of thought is EXACTLY why this team ended up with Henderson over Wirfs and Chaisson over Jefferson. While they just spent picks there AGAIN to make up for their failures by adding Campbell and Walker the last two years. So, sorry, if I have an offensive player and defensive player graded the same? Offense > Defense.

(11-25-2022, 09:32 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-25-2022, 09:20 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]All these teams also built their defense the same time while building their offense.  These teams haven't ignored their D.  They continue to build on both sides of the ball.  That's how you build a team.  Draft really good players regardless of which side of the ball and your team will continue to improve.  You just have to draft good or great players.  You you just draft offense to draft offense and pass up great players on defense while taking the lesser or average players on offense we will continue to spin our wheels

We have the 2nd most amount of cap space currently invested on defense in the NFL. The offense needs to be the focal point next year. The free agents we have leaving combined with age and overall performance would also reflect this need.

A lot of those teams built the defense, I agree. However, it wasn't until this off season where they recently added playmakers on offense that drastically changed their win/loss columns and their abilities to put up points early, thus, giving their defense the ability to pin their ears back, etc. 

We have three more divisional games to go. We're currently 1 - 2 in the division. If they can finish 4 - 2 or 3 - 3 I would be pleased with their efforts being made in one off season to primarily get good in the division against the ground game defensively.

If they get stomped out and finish 1 - 5 in the division? Somebody will have A LOT of explaining to do in January.

Matt Jones had a career game last night but the Pats lost because of their D.  With that said, the Pats having been winning with their D these last few years.  The Jets this year have also been winning with their D, not their offense and they took 2 defenders in the first this past draft.  The Eagles have a very good D and the best offensive line in the league, they really don't have a weakness and they just spent their first round pick on D. The Dolphins have Tua, who just like in college if you can protect him and he has elite weapons he is great.  If he is pressured though he is horrible and he now has arguably the best WR in football and the gave him one of the best LTs in the league in Armstead.  If a WR, T, or G is at the top of our board when we pick then sure take one, but I hate the idea of ignoring the defense to take a guy you have rated a lower player on offense especially when our offense is better than our defense and we have Ridley coming.

I'd be OK with an offensive focus on acquisitions as long as they address the CB2 situation properly.

Either move Williams out and land a good nickel or acquire a good physical corner with man coverage ability.
I'd prefer the latter.

This will aid the pass rush by allowing more man assignments and it will cut down on all the quick release /over the middle stuff that really hurt us in 4 or 5 games this season. QBs will have to hold the ball beat longer more often.

Fix that - and if they want to go after weapons and OL from there - so be it.
(even though I think IDL pass rush needs attention too - you can't fix it all - and they blew the bankroll last offseason)

(11-25-2022, 09:49 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-25-2022, 09:32 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]We have the 2nd most amount of cap space currently invested on defense in the NFL. The offense needs to be the focal point next year. The free agents we have leaving combined with age and overall performance would also reflect this need.

A lot of those teams built the defense, I agree. However, it wasn't until this off season where they recently added playmakers on offense that drastically changed their win/loss columns and their abilities to put up points early, thus, giving their defense the ability to pin their ears back, etc. 

We have three more divisional games to go. We're currently 1 - 2 in the division. If they can finish 4 - 2 or 3 - 3 I would be pleased with their efforts being made in one off season to primarily get good in the division against the ground game defensively.

If they get stomped out and finish 1 - 5 in the division? Somebody will have A LOT of explaining to do in January.

Matt Jones had a career game last night but the Pats lost because of their D.  With that said, the Pats having been winning with their D these last few years.  The Jets this year have also been winning with their D, not their offense and they took 2 defenders in the first this past draft.  The Eagles have a very good D and the best offensive line in the league, they really don't have a weakness and they just spent their first round pick on D. The Dolphins have Tua, who just like in college if you can protect him and he has elite weapons he is great.  If he is pressured though he is horrible and he now has arguably the best WR in football and the gave him one of the best LTs in the league in Armstead.  If a WR, T, or G is at the top of our board when we pick then sure take one, but I hate the idea of ignoring the defense to take a guy you have rated a lower player on offense especially when our offense is better than our defense and we have Ridley coming.

Even if they go all offense this year, that’s not ignoring the defense.

They spent a ton of money and almost all their draft capital on defense this year. If you like the balanced approach, that approach missed the boat in 2022.

Jags have invested heavily in the D and look where that got them. It’s time to try something new and invest heavily in the offense in this draft. Every time you have similar players graded, the tie should go to the offense. Linebacker or WR? WR. TE or safety? TE.

As excited as I am for Ridley, he’s not a guaranteed weapon at the moment. No one has any clue how he’s going to do when he comes back. I’m drafting Quentin Johnson if he’s there in round 1. If Ridley is back to normal, now Trevor has an elite route runner, an elite slot and a potentially elite 50/50 winner.

Then, when they score a lot of points, Walker and Allen can rush the passer in obvious passing situations. Championship.

(11-25-2022, 11:23 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-25-2022, 09:49 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Matt Jones had a career game last night but the Pats lost because of their D.  With that said, the Pats having been winning with their D these last few years.  The Jets this year have also been winning with their D, not their offense and they took 2 defenders in the first this past draft.  The Eagles have a very good D and the best offensive line in the league, they really don't have a weakness and they just spent their first round pick on D. The Dolphins have Tua, who just like in college if you can protect him and he has elite weapons he is great.  If he is pressured though he is horrible and he now has arguably the best WR in football and the gave him one of the best LTs in the league in Armstead.  If a WR, T, or G is at the top of our board when we pick then sure take one, but I hate the idea of ignoring the defense to take a guy you have rated a lower player on offense especially when our offense is better than our defense and we have Ridley coming.

Even if they go all offense this year, that’s not ignoring the defense.

They spent a ton of money and almost all their draft capital on defense this year. If you like the balanced approach, that approach missed the boat in 2022.

Jags have invested heavily in the D and look where that got them. It’s time to try something new and invest heavily in the offense in this draft. Every time you have similar players graded, the tie should go to the offense. Linebacker or WR? WR. TE or safety? TE.

As excited as I am for Ridley, he’s not a guaranteed weapon at the moment. No one has any clue how he’s going to do when he comes back. I’m drafting Quentin Johnson if he’s there in round 1. If Ridley is back to normal, now Trevor has an elite route runner, an elite slot and a potentially elite 50/50 winner.

Then, when they score a lot of points, Walker and Allen can rush the passer in obvious passing situations. Championship.

^This

It’s a new era of score 30 or lose.
If an NFL offense doesn’t turn the ball over, give up a sack(s), or commit a costly penalty(s) they usually score.

(11-25-2022, 09:20 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-25-2022, 07:24 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed. We need to go all in on offense next off season. A lot easier to pressure a QB when you hang 14 or 17 points on them early and force them into catch up mode. This offense can do that with Lawrence and Pederson. Just need to give him a little bit more time in the passing game and another viable and explosive receiving threat or two. All I want to hear next year is how hard it is to get all this great talent out on the football field at the same time with Lawrence for him to pick you apart with.

There's a ton of evidence from the past and presently that supports this path of developing your top flight QB. Polian built his team around Manning offensively early and often. The Jets did it for Wilson. The Patriots did it last year for Mac Jones at the TE position. Miami went up to bat for Tua and it's paying early dividends. Philadelphia went out and built around Hurts, etc.

All these teams also built their defense the same time while building their offense.  These teams haven't ignored their D.  They continue to build on both sides of the ball.  That's how you build a team.  Draft really good players regardless of which side of the ball and your team will continue to improve.  You just have to draft good or great players.  You you just draft offense to draft offense and pass up great players on defense while taking the lesser or average players on offense we will continue to spin our wheels

I agree that proper draft evaluation is the key.  Taking the best player is more important than taking offense versus defense.  That's definitely true and is the key to the draft.

That being said, if deciding among players with roughly equal projected talent, I look for the player that will represent the biggest improvement to the team.  Let's say a player's talent is rated on a scale from 1 to 100 with 100 being the best.  Let's also hypothetically say that we have the opportunity to draft an 80 at a specific offensive position or an 80 at a specific defensive position.  If the offensive pick plays at a position where you already have a 70, that's only 10 points of improvement.  If the defensive pick plays at a position where you currently have a 30, that's 50 points of improvement.  I want the most improvement for the team.  I want 50 points of improvement versus only 10.  That's why I go position by position and not "offense vs defense."  It's a pretty basic concept and some would even say it is common sense, but it is amazing how many people argue against common sense.

(11-25-2022, 07:24 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-25-2022, 07:07 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]A great offense and bad defense is better than an average offense and good defense.  I mean, you say Trevor's growth is the most important thing; if that's so then offense is the way to go for building your team until it's great and then you can focus on defense. Until then drafting defense before round 3 is wasting Trevor's years.

Agreed. We need to go all in on offense next off season. A lot easier to pressure a QB when you hang 14 or 17 points on them early and force them into catch up mode. This offense can do that with Lawrence and Pederson. Just need to give him a little bit more time in the passing game and another viable and explosive receiving threat or two. All I want to hear next year is how hard it is to get all this great talent out on the football field at the same time with Lawrence for him to pick you apart with.

There's a ton of evidence from the past and presently that supports this path of developing your top flight QB. Polian built his team around Manning offensively early and often. The Jets did it for Wilson. The Patriots did it last year for Mac Jones at the TE position. Miami went up to bat for Tua and it's paying early dividends. Philadelphia went out and built around Hurts, etc.

Whose side are you arguing?  The Jets used two out of their three first-rounders on defense.  They even prioritized cornerback over a wide receiver.  It is their improvement on defense, which now has them ranked in the top 10, that has improved their record.  Their offense is ranked in the bottom 5 in the NFL.

(11-25-2022, 01:29 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-25-2022, 09:20 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]All these teams also built their defense the same time while building their offense.  These teams haven't ignored their D.  They continue to build on both sides of the ball.  That's how you build a team.  Draft really good players regardless of which side of the ball and your team will continue to improve.  You just have to draft good or great players.  You you just draft offense to draft offense and pass up great players on defense while taking the lesser or average players on offense we will continue to spin our wheels

I agree that proper draft evaluation is the key.  Taking the best player is more important than taking offense versus defense.  That's definitely true and is the key to the draft.

That being said, if deciding among players with roughly equal projected talent, I look for the player that will represent the biggest improvement to the team.  Let's say a player's talent is rated on a scale from 1 to 100 with 100 being the best.  Let's also hypothetically say that we have the opportunity to draft an 80 at a specific offensive position or an 80 at a specific defensive position.  If the offensive pick plays at a position where you already have a 70, that's only 10 points of improvement.  If the defensive pick plays at a position where you currently have a 30, that's 50 points of improvement.  I want the most improvement for the team.  I want 50 points of improvement versus only 10.  That's why I go position by position and not "offense vs defense."  It's a pretty basic concept and some would even say it is common sense, but it is amazing how many people argue against common sense.

Your way of thinking was fine in the 1990s, but in the modern NFL offensive players of comparable talent to defensive players are worth twice as much. That's just the way they've made the game work now, spending high draft and free agent capital on defenders should come right after you got your running back; ie the last piece of the puzzle.