Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Give this kid some time.

Quote:Yep. We gonna bench one of the top 100 players of last year based on pre-season.

 

Keywords:

 

last year

 

If you have a better guy this year, he sits on first downs/run downs.

 

It shouldn't be hard to understand.

Quote:   NYC4Jags,   I'm interested in your input in the following.    Of course everyone's input as well.

 

   In the last couple of days since the Lions claimed LB Thurston Armbrister off waivers from the Jaguars,  one thing that has been mentioned about Armbrister from a negative standpoint is he didn't play with enough discipline with the Jaguars.    Youth came to mind for me as a reason for this.   Now that I'm reading that the more experienced ( relatively speaking )  Telvin Smith is having problems with playing with discipline,   do you believe it's a coaching issue with the Jaguars LBs or something that's more about these two individual players?

 

I do.  I have primarily been a supporter of Bradley and his staff, but the one thing that has "stuck in my craw" about this staff is the lack of disciplined play.  

Not just the LBs either.  Linemen on either side and multiple secondary spots have been guilty as well. 

 

There are too many unforced errors. There are dumb mistakes being made by young guys and vets alike  -

and playing out of position keeps popping up as a complaint at multiple positions over the past three years. 

 

It's my one legitimate gripe with this staff. They ought to be managing more technically sound and disciplined play from this group.  I feel that with Telvin's athleticism and apparent decent football IQ, this issue should have been correctable and should have already been cleaned up or at least get fixed very soon.

 

I still support this staff and see potential for success, but more disciplined execution is a requirement moving forward in my eyes.  

Quote:Why is lack of discipline always considered a coaching flaw? I feel like the term is used as some throw away term for analysts and fans when they don't know what they are talking about. The term sounds specific however it's really quite general and doesn't mean anything. 

 

I don't like to make excuses for coaches, though I'd also hate to pull the lack of discipline card and make it fit into reasons I don't like x-coach or x-coordinator

 

Pass coverage for linebackers is complex, these guys are being asked to do things they have never done, and it does take a high level of intelligence and more so mental speed (for lack of a better word) to process, analyze, make instant decisions to ultimately cover slot wr's, rb's, h-backs, etc

 

mastering coverage skills for linebackers is really only done by a handful of guys in the league, and it takes a few years of understanding and live action experience to put it all together. Most linebackers are a liability in coverage and that is a good reason as to why the short yardage and underneath throws are highly successful for offenses. Many average QB's can drive down field in that way.

 

I think Telvin does enough coverage wise, he's not the strongest, I don't think he makes too many egregious errors .. but ultimately he's too good to not have on the field and you don't see QB's trying to pick on him.

 

I'm not saying "coaching more disciplined football" is a simple matter.  I'm saying that the overall amount of player out of position, blown assignments in the secondary, missed gaps, really stupid penalties, obvious utter confusion on the field just prior to the snap and number of implosions due to players not on the same page all have to get better and there is a staff in place mandated with making it happen. 

 

Yes,  the players are responsible too, but if the talent on the field is obviously better, then the technical side needs to catch up and you can coach that part. 

Quote:Keywords:


last year


If you have a better guy this year, he sits on first downs/run downs.


It shouldn't be hard to understand.

Pre-season.

I prefer Myles Jack to try SAM so we can have our three best linebackers on the field. If not Jack as a MLB on 3rd downs. I think Telvin played exceptionally well last year. He made it on the top 100 players list and was one of the best tackling linebackers in the league. He also does well in pass coverage. He isn't perfect so there will be mistakes but I wouldn't start a rookie Myles Jack over Telvin Smith who has played well and has good experience. 

This Telvin talk is beginning to remind me of the McCray stuff...

 

The best guys will play.  It's not a bad thing if Telvin sits on run downs.  It means the team's getting better.

 

No need to get upset... unless you bought the jersey or got the autograph, I guess...

Quote:This Telvin talk is beginning to remind me of the McCray stuff...


The best guys will play. It's not a bad thing if Telvin sits on run downs. It means the team's getting better.


No need to get upset... unless you bought the jersey or got the autograph, I guess...

Agreed, the best guys should play.

Mike Kaye:

Quote:MK: I think Jack will rover quite a bit. He's playing a lot of weakside linebacker right now but also spent most of the summer learning MIKE. He could also reasonably play Otto due his coverage ability. I don't think taking over at WILL makes a lot of sense for him or the team. Jack's versatility makes him a better fit for Otto or MIKE, especially with Telvin Smith at WILL. Why rob Peter to pay Paul?


The team wants its best three linebackers on the field and taking Smith off does not allow that to happen.

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.firstcoastnews.com/mb/sports/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/jaguars-mailbag-projecting-the-win-loss-record-for-the-season-the-future-of-the-otto-position/314542138'>http://www.firstcoastnews.com/mb/sports/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/jaguars-mailbag-projecting-the-win-loss-record-for-the-season-the-future-of-the-otto-position/314542138</a>

Cant believe this is a thread! Telvin is the best Linebacker we have.. Now people trying to criticize him about his coverage. He still is growing as a player, If their is anybody who is a liability in pass coverage its Poz, and he has been for years...


If Gus is thinking of sitting Telvin he needs to be fired instantly..

Quote:Cant believe this is a thread! Telvin is the best Linebacker we have.. Now people trying to criticize him about his coverage. He still is growing as a player, If their is anybody who is a liability in pass coverage its Poz, and he has been for years...


If Gus is thinking of sitting Telvin he needs to be fired instantly..

Doesn't change the fact that Telvin blows assignments regularly.

Quote:Cant believe this is a thread! Telvin is the best Linebacker we have.. Now people trying to criticize him about his coverage. He still is growing as a player, If their is anybody who is a liability in pass coverage its Poz, and he has been for years...


If Gus is thinking of sitting Telvin he needs to be fired instantly..

Mike K said Jack could play otto. So I'm rolling with that.


Benching Telvin is not an option.

Telvin gets passing assignments wrong about as often as Poz gets them right. If anyone should come off on 3rd downs its Poz.

 

I get why they are hesitant to pull Poz because he has the most experience but Telvin and Jack are the future of this team at linebacker.

Quote:He looked lost at times last season.

 

He wasn't alone there.

This whole discussion about Telvin is overblown. His blown coverage does not happen "regularly". In fact, it doesn't happen often at all. When it does, it's terrible and that's why people are bringing it up.


This is a lack of discipline, and that falls on the coaches. This ENTIRE team plays undisciplined every single game It never changes, and it wouldn't change with Jack playing WILL. The players aren't the problem - look at their potential and how skilled they are without proper coaching. Just imagine if Belichick, Tomlin, or Harbaugh had control of this team.

JOHN Harbaugh, maybe...

Quote:   NYC4Jags,   I'm interested in your input in the following.    Of course everyone's input as well.

 

   In the last couple of days since the Lions claimed LB Thurston Armbrister off waivers from the Jaguars,  one thing that has been mentioned about Armbrister from a negative standpoint is he didn't play with enough discipline with the Jaguars.    Youth came to mind for me as a reason for this.   Now that I'm reading that the more experienced ( relatively speaking )  Telvin Smith is having problems with playing with discipline,   do you believe it's a coaching issue with the Jaguars LBs or something that's more about these two individual players?

Armbrister's problem is that he's terrible. Takes bad angles, misses tackles, just looks lost out there. Even had moments that made special teams look like special ed teams, but he had plenty of help on that.

 

Also, Telvin's not being benched, but that's a general comment rather than a reply to you.

Quote:Cant believe this is a thread! Telvin is the best Linebacker we have..

Not for long.

Telvin shouldn't sit on run downs. That's where he is best. Pass downs? Yeah I can see it.

Quote:   NYC4Jags,   I'm interested in your input in the following.    Of course everyone's input as well.

 

   In the last couple of days since the Lions claimed LB Thurston Armbrister off waivers from the Jaguars,  one thing that has been mentioned about Armbrister from a negative standpoint is he didn't play with enough discipline with the Jaguars.    Youth came to mind for me as a reason for this.   Now that I'm reading that the more experienced ( relatively speaking )  Telvin Smith is having problems with playing with discipline,   do you believe it's a coaching issue with the Jaguars LBs or something that's more about these two individual players?

 

 

There's plenty of discipline around here. Why, if you don't execute as a player, you're not going to get any sprinkles.