They have regressed
Alot
Started off strong and it was all downhill from there
Do we persist with Caldwell, or is enough enough and we get someone who is able to develop and get the best out of lloyd , walker and our other rookies
I say go a different direction
Offense did the defense no favors. Onside kick and a fumble recovery, and zilch. KC does this to a lot of defenses in this League.
Idk if it's the players or him not coaching them up enough but people are being left wide open way too often.
(11-13-2022, 09:41 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]Offense did the defense no favors. Onside kick and a fumble recovery, and zilch. KC does this to a lot of defenses in this League.
There's no excuse for the Defense having so many busted coverages. It was bad.
I don't think they went at Campbell once today though. But I mean, why would you when you could get whatever you wanted by going after the other guys lolololol.
I am on the fence. Have to remember this is also Caldwell's first year as an actual defensive coordinator.
I think this defense has some personnel issues setting it back. Some of it's coachable, some of it's not.
I think the glaring issue is lack of big time plays from supposed big time players. Starting with Allen up front.
I got a ton of [BLEEP] for saying to trade him nearly three weeks ago. He's not doing enough as a four year player and veteran on this team. It's concering that Smoot has more sacks than him with less opportunities.
Walker and Lloyd are rookies. Fatukasi and Oloukon are highly paid newcomers. Darious Williams as well. I like what I have seen out of Cisco and Jenkins this year. Secondary play has been better without Griffin and Campbell does a good enough job.
I just don't see any push or pressure at all. Doesn't matter it it's from the outside or interior. I have routinely seen Allen and Walker use the same bull rush move, one on one all year and it has no effect at all.
Allen seems to lose contain. A lot. Lost contain to Wilson late in London. Lost contain to Mahomes once or twice today. That's with Walker holding his own and commanding a double team in his direction to enable Allen to be the athlete that he is on a one on one situation and he fails routinely.
It's a personnel problem. Even more concerning when you realize that the last three, four opponents they faced had pretty banged up offensive lines with missing pieces and in some cases down to a third string.
Cisco took out one of their receiving threats early today and they were already short another receiver in this game and the pass rush STILL couldn't take advantage of it.
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(11-13-2022, 10:02 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I am on the fence. Have to remember this is also Caldwell's first year as an actual defensive coordinator.
I think this defense has some personnel issues setting it back. Some of it's coachable, some of it's not.
I think the glaring issue is lack of big time plays from supposed big time players. Starting with Allen up front.
I got a ton of [BLEEP] for saying to trade him nearly three weeks ago. He's not doing enough as a four year player and veteran on this team. It's concering that Smoot has more sacks than him with less opportunities.
Walker and Lloyd are rookies. Fatukasi and Oloukon are highly paid newcomers. Darious Williams as well. I like what I have seen out of Cisco and Jenkins this year. Secondary play has been better without Griffin and Campbell does a good enough job.
I just don't see any push or pressure at all. Doesn't matter it it's from the outside or interior. I have routinely seen Allen and Walker use the same bull rush move, one on one all year and it has no effect at all.
Allen seems to lose contain. A lot. Lost contain to Wilson late in London. Lost contain to Mahomes once or twice today. That's with Walker holding his own and commanding a double team in his direction to enable Allen to be the athlete that he is on a one on one situation and he fails routinely.
It's a personnel problem. Even more concerning when you realize that the last three, four opponents they faced had pretty banged up offensive lines with missing pieces and in some cases down to a third string.
Cisco took out one of their receiving threats early today and they were already short another receiver in this game and the pass rush STILL couldn't take advantage of it.
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41 and 44 get stonewalled so often. I make it a point to watch them and I agree with you, they try to bullrush over and over with no success. 44 has time to improve but it seems the time is up for 41
Not sure, we need better outside CB than Griffin/Herndon and we need to generate a pass rush. Hopefully Walker just improves, Josh Allen has felt like a bust since year 2.
(11-13-2022, 10:13 PM)FatimaJaguar Wrote: [ -> ] (11-13-2022, 10:02 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I am on the fence. Have to remember this is also Caldwell's first year as an actual defensive coordinator.
I think this defense has some personnel issues setting it back. Some of it's coachable, some of it's not.
I think the glaring issue is lack of big time plays from supposed big time players. Starting with Allen up front.
I got a ton of [BLEEP] for saying to trade him nearly three weeks ago. He's not doing enough as a four year player and veteran on this team. It's concering that Smoot has more sacks than him with less opportunities.
Walker and Lloyd are rookies. Fatukasi and Oloukon are highly paid newcomers. Darious Williams as well. I like what I have seen out of Cisco and Jenkins this year. Secondary play has been better without Griffin and Campbell does a good enough job.
I just don't see any push or pressure at all. Doesn't matter it it's from the outside or interior. I have routinely seen Allen and Walker use the same bull rush move, one on one all year and it has no effect at all.
Allen seems to lose contain. A lot. Lost contain to Wilson late in London. Lost contain to Mahomes once or twice today. That's with Walker holding his own and commanding a double team in his direction to enable Allen to be the athlete that he is on a one on one situation and he fails routinely.
It's a personnel problem. Even more concerning when you realize that the last three, four opponents they faced had pretty banged up offensive lines with missing pieces and in some cases down to a third string.
Cisco took out one of their receiving threats early today and they were already short another receiver in this game and the pass rush STILL couldn't take advantage of it.
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41 and 44 get stonewalled so often. I make it a point to watch them and I agree with you, they try to bullrush over and over with no success. 44 has time to improve but it seems the time is up for 41
Allen not only bull rushes but he's in most cases doing a windmill circle while pushing out and away from the pocket.
Almost like a boomerang. Then people get mad and cry that "its all interior, its all interior."
No. It's not. Sometimes Allen needs to realize the shortest distance to your target is a straight line and you can create that straight line by selling your first step outside and spin/rip moving back inside.
He rarely seems to do this. It's frustrating to watch him. He loses leverage routinely. Mind you. This is during one on one blocking situations with him having more wiggle room to do these things.
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Feels like a coaching issue.
We know Lloyd can cover undetneath routes. We know Allen and Walker can win one on one's with OTs. We know they can stunt.
For some reason the scheme is asking them to do something else. Or it's too confusing for them.
(11-13-2022, 10:37 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Feels like a coaching issue.
We know Lloyd can cover undetneath routes. We know Allen and Walker can win one on one's with OTs. We know they can stunt.
For some reason the scheme is asking them to do something else. Or it's too confusing for them.
What games are you watching? Allen and Walker can win one on one's against OT's? Since when? Week two, three maybe?
Those guys, in particular, Allen, get absolutely handled in one on one's. [BLEEP] handled. First string, second string or third string tackle.
Doesn't matter. They barely impact the QB or disrupt the pocket.
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(11-13-2022, 10:52 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (11-13-2022, 10:37 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Feels like a coaching issue.
We know Lloyd can cover undetneath routes. We know Allen and Walker can win one on one's with OTs. We know they can stunt.
For some reason the scheme is asking them to do something else. Or it's too confusing for them.
What games are you watching? Allen and Walker can win one on one's against OT's? Since when? Week two, three maybe?
Those guys, in particular, Allen, get absolutely handled in one on one's. [BLEEP] handled. First string, second string or third string tackle.
Doesn't matter. They barely impact the QB or disrupt the pocket.
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I suspect we've just seen too many mobile QBs lately. To me it looks like they're trying to contain and sack. It's often not possible to do both at the same time.
(11-13-2022, 11:07 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (11-13-2022, 10:52 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]What games are you watching? Allen and Walker can win one on one's against OT's? Since when? Week two, three maybe?
Those guys, in particular, Allen, get absolutely handled in one on one's. [BLEEP] handled. First string, second string or third string tackle.
Doesn't matter. They barely impact the QB or disrupt the pocket.
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I suspect we've just seen too many mobile QBs lately. To me it looks like they're trying to contain and sack. It's often not possible to do both at the same time.
That's fair. Allen and Walker are suffering from mental constipation I guess. Maybe a bye week will give everybody a much needed break physically and it will allow some introspection and adjustments.
We'll know right away whether or not it helps them. Jackson is the pinnacle of mobile QB's.
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(11-13-2022, 11:07 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (11-13-2022, 10:52 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]What games are you watching? Allen and Walker can win one on one's against OT's? Since when? Week two, three maybe?
Those guys, in particular, Allen, get absolutely handled in one on one's. [BLEEP] handled. First string, second string or third string tackle.
Doesn't matter. They barely impact the QB or disrupt the pocket.
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I suspect we've just seen too many mobile QBs lately. To me it looks like they're trying to contain and sack. It's often not possible to do both at the same time.
I think mahomes was sacked 4or 5 times last week… I do believe the announcers mentioned pressure has been an issue this year for the chiefs particularly on the edge but maybe I’m wrong… we had 4 PRESSURES overall against the chiefs… that’s pretty pathetic for an NFL defensive line who is seeing as much drop back as we are… am I remembering wrong but didn’t we also get 0 sacks in 50 attempts earlier this year against the clots? I mean my goodness guys I know everyone has mentioned it but for the amount of investment we have put into D Line this is really pathetic… major indictment on our front office both past and present and their evaluations.
(11-13-2022, 11:31 PM)TTechJag85 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-13-2022, 11:07 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I suspect we've just seen too many mobile QBs lately. To me it looks like they're trying to contain and sack. It's often not possible to do both at the same time.
I think mahomes was sacked 4or 5 times last week… I do believe the announcers mentioned pressure has been an issue this year for the chiefs particularly on the edge but maybe I’m wrong… we had 4 PRESSURES overall against the chiefs… that’s pretty pathetic for an NFL defensive line who is seeing as much drop back as we are… am I remembering wrong but didn’t we also get 0 sacks in 50 attempts earlier this year against the clots? I mean my goodness guys I know everyone has mentioned it but for the amount of investment we have put into D Line this is really pathetic… major indictment on our front office both past and present and their evaluations.
Tacks got after him just like they got after Wilson today. With just their base four for the most part.
I think they committed to getting good against the running game this off season because of this division.
They went after Fatukasi because of his run defending. They went after Oloukon because he led the league in tackles last year. Walker was highly touted as a great run defender coming out of Georgia right off the jump.
We'll see if it works out when they play the tacks twice I guess. Mobile QBs have hammered this defense though. Hurts with the RPO, Jones and Mahomes all had plays. Jackson is going to be tough. Wilson with the Jets is going to be tough.
The front office got it half right this off season. 1-1 with the clots (Crushed them with Taylor, ate you alive without Taylor), 0-1 with the tinhorns (they ran it on you), tacks outcomes remain to be seen. Run defense better be [BLEEP] SUPERB in the next three divisional games.
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I'm as frustrated as anyone else about this defense, but I would leave any decision about Mike Caldwell up to Pederson. Unlike us, Pederson sees what goes on during practice and in meetings, he sees what Caldwell is actually doing, and whether he's a good coach or not. Pederson knows what defenses are actually being called, how the defense is being prepared, and whether the fault lies with the coaches or the players.
I'm having my doubts about Caldwell just like everyone else, but it's just because I'm not privy to what coaching is actually being done, what plays are being called, why there are busted coverages, etc. Coaching happens during the week, and I don't know that we can judge these coaches without seeing them doing their job during the week.
(11-13-2022, 08:58 PM)StrayaJag Wrote: [ -> ]They have regressed
Alot
Started off strong and it was all downhill from there
Do we persist with Caldwell, or is enough enough and we get someone who is able to develop and get the best out of lloyd , walker and our other rookies
How do you know how isn't getting the best out of them already?
(11-13-2022, 10:02 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I am on the fence. Have to remember this is also Caldwell's first year as an actual defensive coordinator.
I think this defense has some personnel issues setting it back. Some of it's coachable, some of it's not.
I think the glaring issue is lack of big time plays from supposed big time players. Starting with Allen up front.
I got a ton of [BLEEP] for saying to trade him nearly three weeks ago. He's not doing enough as a four year player and veteran on this team. It's concering that Smoot has more sacks than him with less opportunities.
Walker and Lloyd are rookies. Fatukasi and Oloukon are highly paid newcomers. Darious Williams as well. I like what I have seen out of Cisco and Jenkins this year. Secondary play has been better without Griffin and Campbell does a good enough job.
I just don't see any push or pressure at all. Doesn't matter it it's from the outside or interior. I have routinely seen Allen and Walker use the same bull rush move, one on one all year and it has no effect at all.
Allen seems to lose contain. A lot. Lost contain to Wilson late in London. Lost contain to Mahomes once or twice today. That's with Walker holding his own and commanding a double team in his direction to enable Allen to be the athlete that he is on a one on one situation and he fails routinely.
It's a personnel problem. Even more concerning when you realize that the last three, four opponents they faced had pretty banged up offensive lines with missing pieces and in some cases down to a third string.
Cisco took out one of their receiving threats early today and they were already short another receiver in this game and the pass rush STILL couldn't take advantage of it.
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I agree with most of this. I still wouldn't have wanted to trade Allen though.
But I agree that this smells more like talent than coaching. This was our "worst" loss of the year and it was only 10 points against one of the best offenses/qbs in the league. We have a shutout this year, and have had quite a few strong performances. The problem is most everyone on defense is pretty average. We have Campbell, Llyod, Cisco who I think are potential pro bowl guys at their positions, and Walker has the ability to get there. But outside of that, there's no one.
If they keep Caldwell - they may need to add or alter the staff aiding him with coverages and blitz scheme.
I realize they are short on talent right now, but I believe a more effective pass rush could be manufactured and called more efficiently.
Another CB, a pass rushing IDL and a SS of note would really help.
(11-13-2022, 09:55 PM)jessepeck1213 Wrote: [ -> ]Idk if it's the players or him not coaching them up enough but people are being left wide open way too often.
This is my problem, and I think its a mix of bad players(80%) and bad scheme(rest). We just don't have the cover guys outside, hell even inside we struggle at times. We need another stud cb2 who can at least do what Campbell does, stick to guys most of the time and may not make the play but is in position. 9/10 that's all you need to do as a CB to make the QB look elsewhere.