Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Hutchinson has twice the production

Our interior D Line is pretty average.

They need to add someone who is strong enough to play the run but is athletic enough to get penetration.

We need to get more interior pressure. That will start moving the pocket and start turning more DE pressures into sacks.

That will also give us more depth and fresh bodies to put in the game. Our D Line tends to get gassed late into games.

I'm not sure how good the draft class is coming out at that position, but it wouldn't surprise me if we used a high pick there.

(11-30-2022, 11:21 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]Our interior D Line is pretty average.

They need to add someone who is strong enough to play the run but is athletic enough to get penetration.

We need to get more interior pressure. That will start moving the pocket and start turning more DE pressures into sacks.

That will also give us more depth and fresh bodies to put in the game. Our D Line tends to get gassed late into games.

I'm not sure how good the draft class is coming out at that position, but it wouldn't surprise me if we used a high pick there.

Agreed 

They added an interior run stuffer and it helped  - but they need an interior pocket disrupter too - Fatukasi is great vs run, nondescript vs pass

It seems we always have to scheme the interior line and mix and match to try to get the match up against different situations.

We need a top caliber player inside like a Stroud or Henderson or Walker who can make plays in key situations against the run and the pass.

Whether it be 3rd and long or third and short someone who you want on the field that can help get the offense off the field.

We need a play maker inside and I don't see anyone with that type of skill set on our current roster.

We have a bunch of situational players but no one that can make plays in all situations.

(11-30-2022, 08:59 PM)StrayaJag Wrote: [ -> ]Expecting walker to take a massive leap come next season as well as lloyd


Patience people patience

Exactly... All this Negativity after a W is depressing.

NH3...

(11-30-2022, 11:56 PM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-30-2022, 08:59 PM)StrayaJag Wrote: [ -> ]Expecting walker to take a massive leap come next season as well as lloyd


Patience people patience

Exactly... All this Negativity after a W is depressing.

NH3...

Most players don't fully come into their own until about their third season.

It amazes me that every year people look at the draft and expect x y or z rookie to come in and immediately have a huge impact and then get disappointed when they have flaws in their game that veteran players can take advantage of.

It's like they think rookies that don't play at a probowl level immediately are a bust when in reality most elite players took a few years of development to reach that level of play.

I hear some that it takes time to develop but this is the #1 pick in the draft. I would buy into the develop thing if he was a later first rounder but this is the #1 overall. In any draft the top player is expected to make a big impact on the team. I don't get just keep letting him being ineffective on the outside. He has no moves currently so he rarely gets near the QB. He could try that bull rush inside and possibly may get better results. I do not see the light bulb clicking on the edge this year. Let's get him some experience on the inside. We could get some production.

(12-01-2022, 01:30 AM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]I hear some that it takes time to develop but this is the #1 pick in the draft. I would buy into the develop thing if he was a later first rounder but this is the #1 overall.  In any draft the top player is expected to make a big impact on the team. I don't get just keep letting him being ineffective on the outside. He has no moves currently so he rarely gets near the QB. He could try that bull rush inside and possibly may get better results. I do not see the light bulb clicking on the edge this year. Let's get him some experience on the inside. We could get some production.

He was selected #1 based on his potential and the type of player he could develop into, not based on what he will do his rookie season.

If you want someone who can immediately play at a high level, you sign a FA. That's not what the draft is for.

(11-30-2022, 10:17 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-30-2022, 01:08 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]They allowed him to learn one position?  Eh... I mean, that's a nice platitude.  But he's doing the same thing in week 11 that he was doing in week 1. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a football player.  But I've been coached and trained before.  What I see from Walker in week 11 is the same I've seen from him 4 months ago.  He's either not willing to learn, or this isn't the best position for him.  

That's just my opinion.  I'm not a football savant or anything.  I'm just watching the games like everyone else.  Walker has talent.  But it doesn't look like he's an Edge rusher.  That's just what I see.  And the clamor and clangor is getting louder.

EDIT - I'm not calling Walker a bust.  Matter of fact, I still thing he's special.  I'm just saying that we are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.  Let him succeed where he feels the most comfortable.

Pass rushers take time to develop. Happens all the time. 

I realize we live in the age of impatience and overreaction but 11 games from a rookie ain't jack [BLEEP] to judge anything by

You're being ridiculous 

The staff thinks the best way to develop this special talent is to teach him how to rush from the edge and then begin moving him to other spots. 
You're simply too impatient to let Doug Pederson, Mike Caldwell, and Brenton Buckner put their 30+ years of NFL coaching experience to work at fulfilling their plan for the young man. 

I think they'll get him the tools he needs to succeed in time and I realize it may be 2023 before we see more impact. 
It is what it is.

Being ridiculous is one of my strengths.

I'm being critical of Walker, but don't misinterpret that for me being down on him.  All I'm saying is that his only move is to go right at the center of the RT.  It's all he does, and by this time of the season, I'd expect more.  Yes, that sounds impatient, but I think it's fair criticism.  

Now let's look at Walker's strenghts...  He's got a motor that can take drive a bus to the moon.  The dude never stops and he's got incredible burst and speed.  He's really good at setting the edge when defending rush plays as well.  He's obviously a great team player.  Remember that roughing the QB call he got that cost us a game?  He hasn't gotten any further penalties like that since.  The dude is clearly coachable and has discipline and passion.  Overall, I'm happy with Walker.  Honestly, I still think that he's got a much higher ceiling than Thibs or Hutch.  

You said it in another comment, and I agree with it.  It's time to kinda move Walker around and get him into situations on passing plays where he can really use that explosion.  Him going at a OG instead of a tackle every now and then may be a revelation that can get his confidence up.

(12-01-2022, 09:48 AM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-30-2022, 10:17 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Pass rushers take time to develop. Happens all the time. 

I realize we live in the age of impatience and overreaction but 11 games from a rookie ain't jack [BLEEP] to judge anything by

You're being ridiculous 

The staff thinks the best way to develop this special talent is to teach him how to rush from the edge and then begin moving him to other spots. 
You're simply too impatient to let Doug Pederson, Mike Caldwell, and Brenton Buckner put their 30+ years of NFL coaching experience to work at fulfilling their plan for the young man. 

I think they'll get him the tools he needs to succeed in time and I realize it may be 2023 before we see more impact. 
It is what it is.

Being ridiculous is one of my strengths.

I'm being critical of Walker, but don't misinterpret that for me being down on him.  All I'm saying is that his only move is to go right at the center of the RT.  It's all he does, and by this time of the season, I'd expect more.  Yes, that sounds impatient, but I think it's fair criticism.  

Now let's look at Walker's strenghts...  He's got a motor that can take drive a bus to the moon.  The dude never stops and he's got incredible burst and speed.  He's really good at setting the edge when defending rush plays as well.  He's obviously a great team player.  Remember that roughing the QB call he got that cost us a game?  He hasn't gotten any further penalties like that since.  The dude is clearly coachable and has discipline and passion.  Overall, I'm happy with Walker.  Honestly, I still think that he's got a much higher ceiling than Thibs or Hutch.  

You said it in another comment, and I agree with it.  It's time to kinda move Walker around and get him into situations on passing plays where he can really use that explosion.  Him going at a OG instead of a tackle every now and then may be a revelation that can get his confidence up.

Right on

Need to modify our offseason training.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kvkb-VtNrE0

(11-30-2022, 11:09 PM)Preach Wrote: [ -> ]Hutchinson has twice the production

Yeah. On a [BLEEP] box defense that gets put into a ton of shoot outs. We have been in games late where its a one score situation and the opponent doesnt have to go into hurry up and pass happy mode.

Not surprising though. Hutchinson is a pure pass rusher and thats what he did for the Wolverines. Walker was raw. You're hoping he develops techniques to combine with his natural size, strength and agility.

We'll see. Hell, there's still enough football left to where he could get streaky and start padding his stats in the sack column.

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I was hopeful this tandem and conversion to the 3-4 defense would be wreaking havoc on QB's but both Allen and Walker huge disappointments this season.

This is sad

(12-01-2022, 06:45 PM)JaguarJosh2 Wrote: [ -> ]I was hopeful this tandem and conversion to the 3-4 defense would be wreaking havoc on QB's but both Allen and Walker huge disappointments this season.

Walker is playing out of position with a severely limited and lacking pass rushing tool kit and Allen has consistently declined and vanished statistically as the talent around him that enabled him as a rookie dried up.

This team should have a [BLEEP] embarassment of riches defensively based on the draft capital and cap space invested on it but when you bite into a peach and it taste like a lenom? You're either blind or you think you know more than everybody in the room.

Baalke needs to go. It's all full circle now at 4 - 8. When we needed a stop? Couldn't do it. When we needed the 2nd most amount of cap space on defense to step up and make a play to reward a 2nd year QBs efforts late? They blew it.

Two games fall on Lawrence. Philadelphia and the tinhorns home loss. Everything else loss wise? If we're being honest? Defense blew it. No answer for running QB's. No pass rush. No coverage. Blown coverage. Negated turnovers or 3rd down stops with PI's, etc.

That's on Baalke. That's on Caldwell.

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Khan needs to sack up in the off season.

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(12-01-2022, 08:40 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-01-2022, 01:30 AM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]I hear some that it takes time to develop but this is the #1 pick in the draft. I would buy into the develop thing if he was a later first rounder but this is the #1 overall.  In any draft the top player is expected to make a big impact on the team. I don't get just keep letting him being ineffective on the outside. He has no moves currently so he rarely gets near the QB. He could try that bull rush inside and possibly may get better results. I do not see the light bulb clicking on the edge this year. Let's get him some experience on the inside. We could get some production.

He was selected #1 based on his potential and the type of player he could develop into, not based on what he will do his rookie season.

If you want someone who can immediately play at a high level, you sign a FA. That's not what the draft is for.

This is one of the arguments for development that I dislike the most. An impact player who is playing on a rookie contract is a major advantage in sports, especially in the NFL. If it takes this guy several years to develop into hopefully that 15+ sack guy, we’ll have to resign him at market rate thus we never have the major advantage I speak of. 

I get the development thing with Walker but I don’t see how anyone could say they aren’t a little frustrated with his lack of production. Those defending him, it almost seems there aren’t any expectations for his rookie season. While I definitely am not calling the guy a bust, let’s think back to the history of this franchise and how many times we’ve heard “let them develop”, “be patient” and said player never develops, isn’t even on the team two years later.

(12-04-2022, 07:48 PM)Jagfan44 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-01-2022, 08:40 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]He was selected #1 based on his potential and the type of player he could develop into, not based on what he will do his rookie season.

If you want someone who can immediately play at a high level, you sign a FA. That's not what the draft is for.

This is one of the arguments for development that I dislike the most. An impact player who is playing on a rookie contract is a major advantage in sports, especially in the NFL. If it takes this guy several years to develop into hopefully that 15+ sack guy, we’ll have to resign him at market rate thus we never have the major advantage I speak of. 

I get the development thing with Walker but I don’t see how anyone could say they aren’t a little frustrated with his lack of production. Those defending him, it almost seems there aren’t any expectations for his rookie season. While I definitely am not calling the guy a bust, let’s think back to the history of this franchise and how many times we’ve heard “let them develop”, “be patient” and said player never develops, isn’t even on the team two years later.

Agreed. [BLEEP] all of that. He was numero uno and he's been a one trick pony at best thru 12 games. It's bull rush or stone walled for him. Thats it. Hate to say this too but after the back to back roughing the passer penalties he's become a monk and complete pacifist out there.

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I saw Allen........it looked like intentionally avoid a sack. He was square with the QB and basically two hand touch him.

Something is going on there mentally. Is he trying to get cut loose? That's how it appears to me. There's no way a guy with his ability is this bad.

Weird to see Allen go backwards. Trevon got a sack today, did he not?