This is tough because you clearly have advantages on both sides of the ball.
Advantage 2022 Jaguars! Lawrence vs Blake "The Boat" Bortles is not even a contest. Bortles Threw for 21 tds 13 ints and a 60% completion percentage.
Advantage 2022 Jaguars! RB: Lenny was a battering ram and got the tough yards at times. I would take ETN over Lenny any day of the week.
Advantage 2022 Jaguars! Receivers are night and day. Marqise "the white tiger" Keenan Cole, and Hurns were are receivers in 2017. It's not even worth a comparison.
Advantage 2022 Jaguars! Tight End. Engram would run laps around Lewis
Advantage 2017! Josh Lambo was Money
Advantage 2017! Evern Defensive category
I think the game would be close. The 2017 would stay stout. In the long run, Ramsey is good to get burnt once or twice a game. Bouye was good on the other side but don't know if he can man up with Kirk. I would take the 2022 Jaguars 20-17
To be fair Lewis and Engram are not even the same kind of TE. Lewis is finesse whereas Engram is a junkyard dog.
I'd say the 2022 Jags. Both seasons we happened to find ourselves in a position we never expected. The biggest differences for me is the coach, the QB and the mood of the team. Light years better than 2017.
2017 team would slap this team. That defense was different and the offense could still score.
Of course with Lawrence you never know, he could beat anybody playing the way he has been lately but overall talent wise? that 2017 team was something else.
The defense was boss for sure but they're only one part of the team.
Plus I guess I'm thinking into next season, not just right now. The 2017 team is just that. I'm hoping the 2022 team is a 2022-20?? team. Longevity.
(12-29-2022, 12:22 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]The defense was boss for sure but they're only one part of the team.
Plus I guess I'm thinking into next season, not just right now. The 2017 team is just that. I'm hoping the 2022 team is a 2022-20?? team. Longevity.
Well yeah Longevity wise I'd go 2022 all day, but for one game 1v1 I'd take the '17 team.
2017. Telvin Smith and Myles Jack would take turns abusing Etienne and Engram. Church and the secondary would have the receivers finding religion. This is assuming Calais Campbell let Trevor throw the ball.
The 2017 team would win, but that team wasn't built to last. The current team will only get better.
I think the 2017 team is overrated. Our team made the playoffs almost exclusively off the Defenses ability to score. I think that run was a fluke.
(12-29-2022, 12:19 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]2017 team would slap this team. That defense was different and the offense could still score.
Of course with Lawrence you never know, he could beat anybody playing the way he has been lately but overall talent wise? that 2017 team was something else.
(12-29-2022, 12:22 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]The defense was boss for sure but they're only one part of the team.
Plus I guess I'm thinking into next season, not just right now. The 2017 team is just that. I'm hoping the 2022 team is a 2022-20?? team. Longevity.
The defense was only great when playing with leads. If Trevor is getting the ball out quickly, the pass rush isn't an issue and the DBs can't cover the WRs. I think this Jags offense and coaching could abuse that defense as the DBs needed the pass rush and the LBs were never great in zone coverage.
It would probably depend on which 2017 QB showed up. If they are able to score and the defense plays with a lead, 2017 would win a higher scoring game where they eventually push the lead to 14 or so.
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2017 Jags would walk all over 2022 Jags. Good defense and potent rushing attack.
(12-29-2022, 01:35 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I think the 2017 team is overrated. Our team made the playoffs almost exclusively off the Defenses ability to score. I think that run was a fluke.
That 2017 team wasn't overrated at all, it was so talented it almost carried Bortles to a superbowl. We had games with 10 sacks, multiple times. We had games with 2-3 ints multiple times, we had games where opposing offenses had negative yards in the first half, MULTIPLE TIMES.
That D was insanely good. We had the 2 best corners in football at the time, a mean pass rush and really good linebackers.
(12-29-2022, 01:35 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I think the 2017 team is overrated. Our team made the playoffs almost exclusively off the Defenses ability to score. I think that run was a fluke.
I'm not so sure, at least as far as the defense goes. That 2017 defense was statistically one of the best defenses of all time, across the board. They were really damn good.
The Offense did just enough, but that Defense was the real deal and not a fluke. It was right up there with the 2000 Ravens etc.
Myles Jack still isn't down by the way.
(12-29-2022, 03:24 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2022, 01:35 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I think the 2017 team is overrated. Our team made the playoffs almost exclusively off the Defenses ability to score. I think that run was a fluke.
I'm not so sure, at least as far as the defense goes. That 2017 defense was statistically one of the best defenses of all time, across the board. They were really damn good.
The Offense did just enough, but that Defense was the real deal and not a fluke. It was right up there with the 2000 Ravens etc.
Myles Jack still isn't down by the way.
Yep, the only smeer on that 2017 team was Gabbert beating us with the Cardinals.
But Blake out busted Blaine that night.
Well Blake Bortles was dogged in the media the whole time but our offense was efficient at running the ball so he could just play action and make plays with his legs so he looked like a real QB that year. It's a shame we couldn't finish off the Pats.
(12-29-2022, 01:42 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2022, 12:19 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]2017 team would slap this team. That defense was different and the offense could still score.
Of course with Lawrence you never know, he could beat anybody playing the way he has been lately but overall talent wise? that 2017 team was something else.
(12-29-2022, 12:22 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]The defense was boss for sure but they're only one part of the team.
Plus I guess I'm thinking into next season, not just right now. The 2017 team is just that. I'm hoping the 2022 team is a 2022-20?? team. Longevity.
The defense was only great when playing with leads. If Trevor is getting the ball out quickly, the pass rush isn't an issue and the DBs can't cover the WRs. I think this Jags offense and coaching could abuse that defense as the DBs needed the pass rush and the LBs were never great in zone coverage.
It would probably depend on which 2017 QB showed up. If they are able to score and the defense plays with a lead, 2017 would win a higher scoring game where they eventually push the lead to 14 or so.
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I was thinking this, too.
It might end up 17-14, but I favor the QB over a defense every time. Not like 2017 was the 85 bears or nothin.
30 - 28, 2017 wins.
Division was pretty weak that year, so it's hard to figure that team. Getting beaten by Cards and rolled by the 9ers took the luster off of the regular season a bit, Barely beat a weak Buffalo team in the 1st round of the playoffs. The Steelers win was solid.
2017 Defense was very good. The whole year we were lucky with injuries and other teams kept sending out bad QBs to play us. The coaching cost us the trip to the big game.
If both rosters are fully healthy and playing the way they were in December of the respective seasons, I think Doug Pederson and TL give the new Jags a very small edge.
I think that 2017 offense possessed enough weaponry to hurt this 2022 defense, but I don't know if I'd trust Marrone/Hackett to keep their collective foot on the gas and score enough points to win against Doug's quick hitters, mesh concepts, and general gadgetry.
On paper - that 2017 offense should whoop the 2022 defense. But I'm not certain it would.
I see this game decided by a FG one way or the other.
Very different teams, and as much as I LOVE a strong defense, the modern league is just all about offense, whether I like it or not.
I think that gives the '22 squad a tiny edge in this matchup.
(12-29-2022, 03:24 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2022, 01:35 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I think the 2017 team is overrated. Our team made the playoffs almost exclusively off the Defenses ability to score. I think that run was a fluke.
I'm not so sure, at least as far as the defense goes. That 2017 defense was statistically one of the best defenses of all time, across the board. They were really damn good.
The Offense did just enough, but that Defense was the real deal and not a fluke. It was right up there with the 2000 Ravens etc.
Myles Jack still isn't down by the way.
This is my point. I think they were very good, don't get me wrong... but the team RELIED on their turnovers. If you played a team that didn't turn over the ball, their offense was trash. Not only did the rely on turnovers, but the D scored a LOT (for a defense). They scored 7 of our 43 TDs that year. That's basically a 6th of our offense. I think you guys are forgetting how bad Bortles was, and that was arguably his best year.
Personally, I think the 2017 team's scoring and turnover numbers were flukish... not because they weren't good, but because it wasn't repeatable. They only lost Poz in the offseason and that team fell apart. An aging and slow Poz was irreplaceable. Think about that. Without that glue putting people in the right position, they couldn't come close to generating the same numbers in 2018.
I would never argue that defense wasn't good. It was. It was great. I just think if you play 10 seasons with the same team, you are going to have an ebb and flow on the turnover and TD ratio, and we just happened to get one of the better ones that year. That led us to the playoffs, and we failed when the [BLEEP] refs couldn't see that Myles Jack wasn't down.
Its actually a really interesting question. Obviously long term, the only way to maintain consistent success in the NFL is having the coach and QB. But for one game, peak 2017 team vs peak 2022 team, I'm giving the edge to 2017. Think they just had better overall talent. I think the defense would force some turnovers against this offense. I think this year's defense would get gashed in the running game and Bortles would play action off of that. Yes the 2017 defense was able to score an unusual amount of points, but dont sleep on the fact the offense was 6th in the league in yards that year. That offense was able to move the ball. It wasn't like they were just stumbling along all year waiting for the defense to score. My only hesitation is that Pederson would likely scheme the offense into some good plays and if you got Lawrence when he is on, that could tip the scales. If I remember right that 2017 defense was susceptible to getting spread out. I'm sure the 2022 offense could move the ball some. But overall I think 2017 defense would make enough game changing plays. And I think the 2017 offense could control the clock limiting the chances Lawrence got. Also betting Bortles would eat this team alive on scramble plays.