Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(01-12-2024, 03:51 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2024, 01:46 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]This 18:03 mark is a perfect example of why I feel like Trevor is losing his accuracy. I noticed a trend throughout the year where he was increasingly throwing off his back foot, instead of planting and driving through, which is causing his balls to sail a bit. He's still tremendously gifted, even with this bad habit he's picking up. Imo, he's throwing off his back foot more because he's injured, stepping into a hit hurts more, and the extra .3 seconds it takes to shift your weight forward is just time the defense has to hit you. Pressure is coming up the middle and when it comes loose, it comes fast. We HAVE to fix this o-line. Priority number one or Trevor's a bust.

Could also be fading back on his throws anticipating pressure. The man ain’t scared of getting it, but probably just trying to get the throw off.

It's the injuries. When you go back and look at the Bengals game. He had a 125 QBR before that ankle ([BLEEP] you Walker Little). When you look at those next four games of his from that point forward? 

His completion percentages drop below 60, his QB ratings start dipping into either the 60's or low 80's and this was with a wide variety of line-up changes on the offensive line and a depleted WR room. 

I put that on coaching and to what I was saying quite a bit when the wheels fell off. Failure to adjust or make adjustments plagued this staff throughout the entirety of the season, when the gauntlet portion of the schedule appeared, this team was routinely out coached, out played physically and they couldn't overcome their inadequacies anymore because the defenses were too good and their opponents offensively were on par or better off than ours. 

The accountability questions come back into full effect. 

1. While I appreciate Lawrence's toughness and willingness to gut it out, working through that knee injury, the ankle injury, the concussion and the throwing shoulder injury ultimately had an impact on his ability throughout the stretch of the season. 

2. Who is responsible for allowing him to play in these conditions or had the ability to sit him down for a little bit? 

The concussion part is especially important to me. I remember Tagovaiola getting his [BLEEP] bell rung last year and there were games where he played that he shouldn't have and it was OBVIOUS he was way off target post concussion(s). 

When you look at Purdy, he sustained his concussion against the Vikings, he then proceeds to have a bad half in that game and a bad overall game at home against the Bengals. He was good after that bye week until he played the Ravens where he had a clunker of a game. 

The tinhorns probably did the right thing after Stroud's concussion with the Jets. They sat him for two weeks, he got right, and they got into the post season for doing the right thing. Pride and failure to adjust cost this team more than I think people care to admit or realize. I already cited Lawrence's numbers throughout the year.

He had seven games over 100+ in QBR. We went 6 - 1 in those games, the one loss, again, coming against the Bengals due to the ankle injury. We were 2 - 0 in the games he finished with 90+ QBR. The games I will harp on the most, especially this off season. 

1. Bengals game. The beginning of the downward spiral of 2023. 

2. Chiefs game earlier in the season. So many missed opportunities in that one that make me sick. Said it would come back to bite us.

3. Home loss to the tinhorns. That was the game that showed us how poorly unprepared the team was into the beginning of the season. You lost to the Chiefs, that's fine. Acceptable. But, to drop two home games in a row, including in the way they did with the tinhorns? Unacceptable really. 

You win just ONE of those [BLEEP] games above? We're all coasting into a nice wildcard weekend tomorrow.

(01-12-2024, 01:46 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2024, 12:15 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Watch the below video at the 18:03 mark, where on 4th and goal at the 1-yard line, Trevor tries to reach over the goal line, while Luke Fortner is getting PANCAKED.  

How can anyone argue about what our problem on offense was?  We're not going to line up in a power run formation, because we don't have the personnel to do it.

(3) What Needs to Change Moving Forward? | Huddle Up | Jacksonville Jaguars - YouTube

This 18:03 mark is a perfect example of why I feel like Trevor is losing his accuracy. I noticed a trend throughout the year where he was increasingly throwing off his back foot, instead of planting and driving through, which is causing his balls to sail a bit. He's still tremendously gifted, even with this bad habit he's picking up. Imo, he's throwing off his back foot more because he's injured, stepping into a hit hurts more, and the extra .3 seconds it takes to shift your weight forward is just time the defense has to hit you. Pressure is coming up the middle and when it comes loose, it comes fast. We HAVE to fix this o-line. Priority number one or Trevor's a bust.

I mentioned this earlier in the year, even while falling away or bad lower body mechanics, he was able to deliver based on sheer ability
as the year went on with the injuries piling up those same throws were starting to sail and flutter

2 fold fix
stop the interior push, priority one regardless
clean up the footwork

(01-12-2024, 12:15 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2024, 11:53 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]McManus going off now on the radio show. [BLEEP] about lack of power run formations, etc. He was tired of the 3rd and 1 shotgun runs, etc.

It's interesting how divided everybody is on the running game issues.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Watch the below video at the 18:03 mark, where on 4th and goal at the 1-yard line, Trevor tries to reach over the goal line, while Luke Fortner is getting PANCAKED.  

How can anyone argue about what our problem on offense was?  We're not going to line up in a power run formation, because we don't have the personnel to do it.

(3) What Needs to Change Moving Forward? | Huddle Up | Jacksonville Jaguars - YouTube

I mean, honestly, this particular play and Fortner's play in general would be hilarious to watch if he was on another team.   Actually, I guess I'm able to be objective enough to find it hilarious here as well though. So bad.

Is that the play where the offensive line opened up a hole for Tank to get a touchdown but our apparently elite quarterback had audibled without telling anyone and got stuffed at the line?

(01-18-2024, 11:36 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]Is that the play where the offensive line opened up a hole for Tank to get a touchdown but our apparently elite quarterback had audibled without telling anyone and got stuffed at the line?

You mean the play where our not-so-elite center got pancaked, which I am pretty sure was not what he was supposed to do for either a running play or a QB sneak.

(01-12-2024, 04:14 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2024, 03:51 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]Could also be fading back on his throws anticipating pressure. The man ain’t scared of getting it, but probably just trying to get the throw off.

I

I put that on coaching and to what I was saying quite a bit when the wheels fell off. Failure to adjust or make adjustments plagued this staff throughout the entirety of the season, when the gauntlet portion of the schedule appeared, this team was routinely out coached, out played physically and they couldn't overcome their inadequacies anymore because the defenses were too good and their opponents offensively were on par or better off than ours. 

The accountability questions come back into full effect. 



2. Who is responsible for allowing him to play in these conditions or had the ability to sit him down for a little bit? 

 

Great point here, although I did mention early in the year that Doug was stupid for playing Lawrence after multiple injuries, no regard for the "franchise guy"....

(01-18-2024, 11:36 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]Is that the play where the offensive line opened up a hole for Tank to get a touchdown but our apparently elite quarterback had audibled without telling anyone and got stuffed at the line?

You could do better.

(01-18-2024, 11:36 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]Is that the play where the offensive line opened up a hole for Tank to get a touchdown but our apparently elite quarterback had audibled without telling anyone and got stuffed at the line?

No it's the play where our center looked like this

(01-18-2024, 02:43 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2024, 11:36 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]Is that the play where the offensive line opened up a hole for Tank to get a touchdown but our apparently elite quarterback had audibled without telling anyone and got stuffed at the line?

No it's the play where our center looked like this

Which one?

(01-18-2024, 11:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2024, 11:36 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]Is that the play where the offensive line opened up a hole for Tank to get a touchdown but our apparently elite quarterback had audibled without telling anyone and got stuffed at the line?

You mean the play where our not-so-elite center got pancaked, which I am pretty sure was not what he was supposed to do for either a running play or a QB sneak.

I meant the play where our franchise QB audibled to a failed play because he thought he knew better. He didn't. 

This type of boneheaded decision is too common with him and is a significant reason why I'm not as positive as the majority here.

The play didn't fail because of the center, it failed because of the golden boy.

(01-18-2024, 03:15 PM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2024, 11:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]You mean the play where our not-so-elite center got pancaked, which I am pretty sure was not what he was supposed to do for either a running play or a QB sneak.

I meant the play where our franchise QB audibled to a failed play because he thought he knew better. He didn't. 

This type of boneheaded decision is too common with him and is a significant reason why I'm not as positive as the majority here.

The play didn't fail because of the center, it failed because of the golden boy.

The play would have failed if the QB didn't call his own number as well because of the Center. 

It was a dumb, desperation/hero move by TL - but it was also destined to be screwed regardless because Doug and Trent killed this line by acquiring finesse players instead of NFL caliber blockers who can grind out 1 yard when you need it. 

Harrison may turn out to be the lone exception thus far, but it's early to know what kind of run blocker he's really going to be.

(01-18-2024, 03:15 PM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2024, 11:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]You mean the play where our not-so-elite center got pancaked, which I am pretty sure was not what he was supposed to do for either a running play or a QB sneak.

I meant the play where our franchise QB audibled to a failed play because he thought he knew better. He didn't. 

This type of boneheaded decision is too common with him and is a significant reason why I'm not as positive as the majority here.

The play didn't fail because of the center, it failed because of the golden boy.

Go watch the play again. Fortner got knocked on his back right in front of Brenton Strange who was playing fullback. Strange had to stop and stand straight up to avoid literally stepping on Fortner or having Fortner sweep his legs out. The run play was doomed because Fortner got steamrolled at the snap.

(01-25-2023, 03:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I've been a broken record about the deficiency here this year and many of you have let me know I'm perhaps too over-the-top in my criticism. 
Maybe.
But nonetheless - here is a thread on the topic and I'll be posting gifs of some of the gaffes as I compile them.

As mentioned in another thread, you'll notice stunts and twists giving these guys fits at times. They release guys inside too often. Some run blocking mishaps mixed in too. 

I started roughly around mid season in reviewing all22 footage and focused on Fortner. I'm only three games in, but here's what I've found so far:

---

more...

Some of these is the QB. When I can get to 4 seconds and the dude hasn't moved, evaded, stepped away from pressure... Its a QB thing. The one after "more..." and the Ravens 1 96 did win the bull but it was ~4 seconds into the rush. That is an eternity for a QB. Fortner is a recurring theme here, and he actually seems to be messing up a lot of our guards assignments as well... Good gifs, its just some of the rush ones you provide are not on the OL, but in fact the QB.

---

TLDR - We really, really need a good center and I think the entire O line would be better. Yes, Ezra missed some but that's something you can fix, IE - assignment wise looks like he was confused in a couple of these... The center is the glaring weakness when I look at these gifs.

(01-18-2024, 05:08 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2023, 03:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I've been a broken record about the deficiency here this year and many of you have let me know I'm perhaps too over-the-top in my criticism. 
Maybe.
But nonetheless - here is a thread on the topic and I'll be posting gifs of some of the gaffes as I compile them.

As mentioned in another thread, you'll notice stunts and twists giving these guys fits at times. They release guys inside too often. Some run blocking mishaps mixed in too. 

I started roughly around mid season in reviewing all22 footage and focused on Fortner. I'm only three games in, but here's what I've found so far:

---

more...

Some of these is the QB. When I can get to 4 seconds and the dude hasn't moved, evaded, stepped away from pressure... Its a QB thing. The one after "more..." and the Ravens 1 96 did win the bull but it was ~4 seconds into the rush. That is an eternity for a QB. Fortner is a recurring theme here, and he actually seems to be messing up a lot of our guards assignments as well... Good gifs, its just some of the rush ones you provide are not on the OL, but in fact the QB.

---

TLDR - We really, really need a good center and I think the entire O line would be better. Yes, Ezra missed some but that's something you can fix, IE - assignment wise looks like he was confused in a couple of these... The center is the glaring weakness when I look at these gifs.

You need a stopwatch

The first one you mention is 2.3 seconds and the second you mention (involving play action) is 2.4 seconds. 

C'mon.

BTW - All of these clips are from 2022
This thread was started to discuss adding a contingency backup plan at center (and LG) last offseason because Fortner and Shatley were so bad in 2022. 

I haven't bothered to add any 2023 clips because now basically everyone sees it plainly. 

(01-18-2024, 05:08 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2023, 03:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I've been a broken record about the deficiency here this year and many of you have let me know I'm perhaps too over-the-top in my criticism. 
Maybe.
But nonetheless - here is a thread on the topic and I'll be posting gifs of some of the gaffes as I compile them.

As mentioned in another thread, you'll notice stunts and twists giving these guys fits at times. They release guys inside too often. Some run blocking mishaps mixed in too. 

I started roughly around mid season in reviewing all22 footage and focused on Fortner. I'm only three games in, but here's what I've found so far:

---

more...

Some of these is the QB. When I can get to 4 seconds and the dude hasn't moved, evaded, stepped away from pressure... Its a QB thing. The one after "more..." and the Ravens 1 96 did win the bull but it was ~4 seconds into the rush. That is an eternity for a QB. Fortner is a recurring theme here, and he actually seems to be messing up a lot of our guards assignments as well... Good gifs, its just some of the rush ones you provide are not on the OL, but in fact the QB.

---

TLDR - We really, really need a good center and I think the entire O line would be better. Yes, Ezra missed some but that's something you can fix, IE - assignment wise looks like he was confused in a couple of these... The center is the glaring weakness when I look at these gifs.

I'm sorry.... what?

Does time work differently on your planet? None of those throws above were 4 seconds.

(01-18-2024, 05:17 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2024, 05:08 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ]Some of these is the QB. When I can get to 4 seconds and the dude hasn't moved, evaded, stepped away from pressure... Its a QB thing. The one after "more..." and the Ravens 1 96 did win the bull but it was ~4 seconds into the rush. That is an eternity for a QB. Fortner is a recurring theme here, and he actually seems to be messing up a lot of our guards assignments as well... Good gifs, its just some of the rush ones you provide are not on the OL, but in fact the QB.

---

TLDR - We really, really need a good center and I think the entire O line would be better. Yes, Ezra missed some but that's something you can fix, IE - assignment wise looks like he was confused in a couple of these... The center is the glaring weakness when I look at these gifs.

I'm sorry.... what?

Does time work differently on your planet? None of those throws above were 4 seconds.

They are GIFs - so maybe his phone or computer display is not showing them at speed for some reason, but... 

no - not 4 seconds

I concur, none got close to even 3 seconds.

This is great information which points out the biggest hole in our pass protection. If you look at the Chiefs game from the AFC Divisional Playoff Game the previous season you will see a lot of this as well.. All the teams know this weakness and exploit it. As much as I enjoy rooting for the guys that play in the center of our line this has been an ongoing issue. They also cannot run block. The best they can do is stalemate a DL, rarely do they move anyone anywhere. Then when the running back hits the area next to him they shed the block and latch onto the RB. Maybe it is time to find other players and give them a shot at the middle?

I asked this question in another thread here. When was the last time in short yardage situations were you somewhat confident we could run the ball and get the first down or score?

With kelces imminent retirement , I'd love for doug to use his connections and get him in to the club as a mentor role for our centres

(01-19-2024, 01:17 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]This is great information which points out the biggest hole in our pass protection.  If you look at the Chiefs game from the AFC Divisional Playoff Game the previous season you will see a lot of this as well..  All the teams know this weakness and exploit it.  As much as I enjoy rooting for the guys that play in the center of our line this has been an ongoing issue. They also cannot run block. The best they can do is stalemate a DL, rarely do they move anyone anywhere. Then when the running back hits the area next to him they shed the block and latch onto the RB.  Maybe it is time to find other players and give them a shot at the middle?

I asked this question in another thread here. When was the last time in short yardage situations were you somewhat confident we could run the ball and get the first down or score?

In the 2023 season, the Jaguars ran 120 running plays that went for 0 yards or a loss.  That's an average of 7 per game.  Seven completely wasted plays that put us in 2nd and long, 3rd and long, or failed to get a first down.  I don't know how anyone could be aware of that statistic and put the blame for our offensive failures anywhere but on our offensive line.  

The story of our season can be summed up: "2nd and 12."  When they put out our 2023 season video they should title it: "2nd and 12: Jaguars 2023 Season in Review."