I actually find it strange that, of all positions, a CB has never gone 1st over all.
While Travon didn't perform because he was used out of position for some stupid reason, I wouldn't take a good CB over him. The Jags had no problems playing against him.
The Jags seem to have issues taking players and then trying to make them play a different position. The NFL isn't the time to learn a new position.
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(02-21-2023, 11:15 AM)JagsFanClubOfMD Wrote: [ -> ]I actually find it strange that, of all positions, a CB has never gone 1st over all.
Get the big guys early, ya know?
I wanted Gardner to begin with, so this is certainly no surprise. I hate articles like this though. We don't need to be reminded that we screwed up. I'd rather focus on the positive. That was then, this is now.
(02-21-2023, 03:28 PM)IKhan't Wrote: [ -> ]I wanted Gardner to begin with, so this is certainly no surprise. I hate articles like this though. We don't need to be reminded that we screwed up. I'd rather focus on the positive. That was then, this is now.
We ‘screwed up’. After one year…
(02-21-2023, 04:43 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ] (02-21-2023, 03:28 PM)IKhan't Wrote: [ -> ]I wanted Gardner to begin with, so this is certainly no surprise. I hate articles like this though. We don't need to be reminded that we screwed up. I'd rather focus on the positive. That was then, this is now.
We ‘screwed up’. After one year…
We screwed up the minute we made the pick and decided to play Walker out of position.
(02-21-2023, 04:53 PM)IKhan't Wrote: [ -> ] (02-21-2023, 04:43 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]We ‘screwed up’. After one year…
We screwed up the minute we made the pick and decided to play Walker out of position.
They didn't screw up with the pick per se but they did make a mistake in terms of how they used him last year. They'll remedy that this coming year.
Walker will be explosive with great stats next season. Lock it.
Blah blah blah. Happy with Travon. Let’s see how he looks next year with another year of development.
Doesn't mean anything and I'm not even going to give them the click.
This ought to be a fun thread to revisit annually moving forward.
(02-21-2023, 04:53 PM)IKhan't Wrote: [ -> ] (02-21-2023, 04:43 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]We ‘screwed up’. After one year…
We screwed up the minute we made the pick and decided to play Walker out of position.
Interesting. Not sure how these could have happened at the same time since the draft is in April.
I'd say I told you so, shoulda taken Sauce at 1 but i'm sure if I do that i'll just be told how I didn't say that. LOL
Side note: was pounding the damn table for George Pickens as well.. Sometimes I really think these GMs just have absolutely 0 idea what they are doing.
Yes but who when why what when
A lot of the shots being taken at Travon Walker should honestly be directed at Baalke and Caldwell. Same with Lloyd. Again, the glaring point that seems to get glossed over by all of these media outlets is that we selected two players in the first round last year and played them completely out of position.
Walker should have been playing inside with his hands down in the dirt more often than not. He did have a few nice plays here and there in coverage though. So, it goes to show you that he does indeed have range and good athleticism for his size. Lloyd should have been playing outside all year long on one side of the football field like he primarily did at Utah.
We saw him get crucified all year for offenses getting away with playing criss cross applesauce on him. Not his fault entirely. He was out of position.
(02-22-2023, 01:29 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of the shots being taken at Travon Walker should honestly be directed at Baalke and Caldwell. Same with Lloyd. Again, the glaring point that seems to get glossed over by all of these media outlets is that we selected two players in the first round last year and played them completely out of position.
Walker should have been playing inside with his hands down in the dirt more often than not. He did have a few nice plays here and there in coverage though. So, it goes to show you that he does indeed have range and good athleticism for his size. Lloyd should have been playing outside all year long on one side of the football field like he primarily did at Utah.
We saw him get crucified all year for offenses getting away with playing criss cross applesauce on him. Not his fault entirely. He was out of position.
I see lots and lots of this analysis flying around.
Might be correct in the end, might not.
Both Lloyd and Walker may turn out great at the roles envisioned for them despite some middling play in their rookie campaigns.
It could also turn out to be true that they were miscast as you suggest.
Meaning the scouting done, combined with the coordinator's intent, were either misaligned or both were bad.
When you combine this with this defense also miscasting Williams as a slot defender, there is a bit of a trend developing.
Personally - I think that leaving Williams inside as long as they did was far more egregious than anything they did or didn't do with Lloyd and Walker. In fact - moving him outside sooner would have likely HELPED Walker quite a bit and even Lloyd to a lesser degree.
I'm 100% patient enough to see what this staff has learned from these situations to wait and see how they address them in 2023.
And I'm not gonna trip if Walker is still getting plenty of edge snaps in September. It would be great if he grows into the role.
I do think he'd be great playing 4-3 DE on early downs and moving inside on 3rd and long, but I do think still believe he's raw and malleable and we don't play much straight up 4-3 unless that is part of the staff's 2nd year adjustment.
The thing I'm really not sure about - is just sticking him at 3-4 end/5-tech and calling it a day. Don't think that's getting the most out of him. And that seems to be what many are asking this staff to do with him.
(02-22-2023, 01:57 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-22-2023, 01:29 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of the shots being taken at Travon Walker should honestly be directed at Baalke and Caldwell. Same with Lloyd. Again, the glaring point that seems to get glossed over by all of these media outlets is that we selected two players in the first round last year and played them completely out of position.
Walker should have been playing inside with his hands down in the dirt more often than not. He did have a few nice plays here and there in coverage though. So, it goes to show you that he does indeed have range and good athleticism for his size. Lloyd should have been playing outside all year long on one side of the football field like he primarily did at Utah.
We saw him get crucified all year for offenses getting away with playing criss cross applesauce on him. Not his fault entirely. He was out of position.
I see lots and lots of this analysis flying around.
Might be correct in the end, might not.
Both Lloyd and Walker may turn out great at the roles envisioned for them despite some middling play in their rookie campaigns.
It could also turn out to be true that they were miscast as you suggest.
Meaning the scouting done, combined with the coordinator's intent, were either misaligned or both were bad.
When you combine this with this defense also miscasting Williams as a slot defender, there is a bit of a trend developing.
Personally - I think that leaving Williams inside as long as they did was far more egregious than anything they did or didn't do with Lloyd and Walker. In fact - moving him outside sooner would have likely HELPED Walker quite a bit and even Lloyd to a lesser degree.
I'm 100% patient enough to see what this staff has learned from these situations to wait and see how they address them in 2023.
And I'm not gonna trip if Walker is still getting plenty of edge snaps in September. It would be great if he grows into the role.
I do think he'd be great playing 4-3 DE on early downs and moving inside on 3rd and long, but I do think still believe he's raw and malleable and we don't play much straight up 4-3 unless that is part of the staff's 2nd year adjustment.
The thing I'm really not sure about - is just sticking him at 3-4 end/5-tech and calling it a day. Don't think that's getting the most out of him. And that seems to be what many are asking this staff to do with him.
It's not a direct comparison but JJ Watt had 5.5 sacks his rookie year. Patrick Peterson and Von Miller both outplayed him in their rookie years. Then Watt went on a monster tear when he put it all together. This might be Walker in 2023.
Walker was so close so many times this past year. His ability against the run is already the best in the class but when he starts finishing those pressures, I think you'll see the guy we all hoped.
I also mentioned this in another thread but Pederson gives me so much hope. I'm not sure who the last coach was that actually made the players better (Coughlin?) but Pederson will actually teach these guys and hire a staff full of teachers.
(02-22-2023, 01:57 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-22-2023, 01:29 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of the shots being taken at Travon Walker should honestly be directed at Baalke and Caldwell. Same with Lloyd. Again, the glaring point that seems to get glossed over by all of these media outlets is that we selected two players in the first round last year and played them completely out of position.
Walker should have been playing inside with his hands down in the dirt more often than not. He did have a few nice plays here and there in coverage though. So, it goes to show you that he does indeed have range and good athleticism for his size. Lloyd should have been playing outside all year long on one side of the football field like he primarily did at Utah.
We saw him get crucified all year for offenses getting away with playing criss cross applesauce on him. Not his fault entirely. He was out of position.
I see lots and lots of this analysis flying around.
Might be correct in the end, might not.
Both Lloyd and Walker may turn out great at the roles envisioned for them despite some middling play in their rookie campaigns.
It could also turn out to be true that they were miscast as you suggest.
Meaning the scouting done, combined with the coordinator's intent, were either misaligned or both were bad.
When you combine this with this defense also miscasting Williams as a slot defender, there is a bit of a trend developing.
Personally - I think that leaving Williams inside as long as they did was far more egregious than anything they did or didn't do with Lloyd and Walker. In fact - moving him outside sooner would have likely HELPED Walker quite a bit and even Lloyd to a lesser degree.
I'm 100% patient enough to see what this staff has learned from these situations to wait and see how they address them in 2023.
And I'm not gonna trip if Walker is still getting plenty of edge snaps in September. It would be great if he grows into the role.
I do think he'd be great playing 4-3 DE on early downs and moving inside on 3rd and long, but I do think still believe he's raw and malleable and we don't play much straight up 4-3 unless that is part of the staff's 2nd year adjustment.
The thing I'm really not sure about - is just sticking him at 3-4 end/5-tech and calling it a day. Don't think that's getting the most out of him. And that seems to be what many are asking this staff to do with him.
I don't mind the thought process behind drafting talented players and playing them at different positions. I just don't like the idea of doing this right out of the gate. It's backwards thinking IMHO. Trying to reverse engineer something seems a lot more difficult than just engineering something. Especially when it's already something they're familiar with and comfortable with.
We should have never seen a first round talent sat for three weeks. That's insane to me. It also shows a bit of an ego trip IMHO. Coaches and the personnel department pretty much hung Lloyd out to dry there. I don't think that's a good idea. When you factor in the whole Williams situation playing inside Vs. outside it further cemented my sentiments there with Caldwell being in over his head as a first year DC and Baalke maybe putting too much faith in the position changes.
If it works out, great. I think Walker SHOULD be that guy that you move around all over the place eventually. Like a TJ Watt. Play him at left side, play him at right side, play him inside, play him standing up, etc. I just wish they would have kept it simple for Walker and Lloyd as rookies and THEN progressively overloaded them with different roles.
Just getting used to NFL speed alone is a pain in the [BLEEP]. Not sure why you would compound this simple challenge by asking one behemoth and freakish athlete to play standing upright when he clearly was comfortable with his hands in the dirt and butt up in the air. Same for Lloyd being tasked to play inside when he was pretty damn effective off the outside getting after the QB and in coverages at Utah.
My reservations or faith in this idea would have been better with, say, a Wade Philips or Romeo Crennel running the defense. Not with a first timer though in Caldwell. We'll see I guess. I am not writing Walker nor Lloyd off. That would be foolish. It's way, way too early for that. I just think we did a really piss poor job with premium resources.