Many big cities have a problem with homeless people all over the place, camping on the sidewalk, doing drugs, wandering around acting crazy, and generally being a nuisance and health hazard.
If you were king, what would you do about it?
I would pass a law making it illegal to panhandle, loiter, camp, or sleep on public property, and I'd build homeless shelters away from the city center.
Anything wrong with that?
(09-23-2023, 09:06 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Many big cities have a problem with homeless people all over the place, camping on the sidewalk, doing drugs, wandering around acting crazy, and generally being a nuisance and health hazard.
If you were king, what would you do about it?
I would pass a law making it illegal to panhandle, loiter, camp, or sleep on public property, and I'd build homeless shelters away from the city center.
Anything wrong with that?
First of all, I'm in agreement with all of that. The current reality is that most of those offenses are already illegal, but few municipalities have the political will to enforce them. It's not just big cities, the same problems are spreading into much smaller communities as well.
It's a superficial solution that does not address the causes. There's always going to be homeless people because no matter how benevolent and generous a society is, a small segment of the population will always remain on the fringes. I've seen wretched itinerants in Japan.
From my observations, the three biggest causes of homelessness today are the cost of housing, the class of drugs prevalent on the streets, and how our society addresses severe mental illness.
In California, which accounts for 70% of the homeless in the U.S., housing costs are the most profound cause. That certainly holds true throughout the rest of the country but is most acutely felt there. I'm not sure how that can be addressed. The demand for housing is at an all-time high. Alowing 6 million people to flood into the country in the last 3 years is not helping the situation. The solution will take time to balance out.
The second most prevalent cause is the flood of fentanyl and other drugs streaming across the border. Mexican cartels have strong networks set up throughout the U.S. to ensure the stuff is plentiful. Another drug that is becoming popular and plentiful is xylazine. It's an animal tranquilizer which causes the users to slump forward but remain on their feet in some kind of bizarre zombie trance. We've all seen the pictures and videos. Getting the flow of drugs and the cartels under control is an important first step.
The solution to the third problem is intensely debatable. It is my view that institutions need to be reestablished to house and treat the most severely ill. Allowing people who are too demented to even care for themselves to roam the streets unchecked and untreated is not compassionate. It's quite the opposite and also subjects them to even more mental stress, as well as endangering the public.
So there. If I were king, I would enact these solutions.
And as a benign king, I would have all detractors banished. Don't mess with the nice king.
Round them up and put them in a wood chipper. Repackage them as food. Soylent Green style.
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Build a Thunder Dome..
2 men enter, 1 man leaves..
Winner stays, receives housing and a job, loser gets exiled to California..
(09-23-2023, 10:02 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]It's a superficial solution that does not address the causes. There's always going to be homeless people because no matter how benevolent and generous a society is, a small segment of the population will always remain on the fringes. I've seen wretched itinerants in Japan.
From my observations, the three biggest causes of homelessness today are the cost of housing, the class of drugs prevalent on the streets, and how our society addresses severe mental illness.
In California, which accounts for 70% of the homeless in the U.S., housing costs are the most profound cause. That certainly holds true throughout the rest of the country but is most acutely felt there. I'm not sure how that can be addressed. The demand for housing is at an all-time high. Alowing 6 million people to flood into the country in the last 3 years is not helping the situation. The solution will take time to balance out.
The second most prevalent cause is the flood of fentanyl and other drugs streaming across the border. Mexican cartels have strong networks set up throughout the U.S. to ensure the stuff is plentiful. Another drug that is becoming popular and plentiful is xylazine. It's an animal tranquilizer which causes the users to slump forward but remain on their feet in some kind of bizarre zombie trance. We've all seen the pictures and videos. Getting the flow of drugs and the cartels under control is an important first step.
The solution to the third problem is intensely debatable. It is my view that institutions need to be reestablished to house and treat the most severely ill. Allowing people who are too demented to even care for themselves to roam the streets unchecked and untreated is not compassionate. It's quite the opposite and also subjects them to even more mental stress, as well as endangering the public.
So there. If I were king, I would enact these solutions.
And as a benign king, I would have all detractors banished. Don't mess with the nice king.
I agree with everything you said.
But I would add that we just need to allow more homes to be built in many of these places. Zoning is the problem in most of the west coast. Higher density housing, 5 and 6 story apartment buildings, need to become more common.
I would also add that none of these problems have much to do with Democrats. Local, Republican led governments also tend to overuse zoning and underfund mental health care. See Montana and Idaho.
I got my lease renewal 3 months before my lease ran out. I was paying $1,427 a month for a 2BR apartment. The renewal was for 1 year at over $1,800 a month....... There was no way I could afford that so....... Currently couch surfing with a friend (once I decide I'm doing fine with this mental health break)..... Living within 50 miles of DC and 45 mile of Baltimore has gotten to be too much. Looking to move away from here now.
Rent prices are out of control. There are two main problems: Human greed and mental health. Both need to be addressed.
(09-24-2023, 06:39 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Rent prices are out of control. There are two main problems: Human greed and mental health. Both need to be addressed.
You can address mental health by setting up more mental hospitals and funding more social workers.
How do you "address" human greed though? Might as well try to address gravity or entropy. It's not something to be addressed, it's something to build around.
Rent is the biggest problem. The cost of living compared to 20 years ago is a huge difference. I remember when you could get a 2 bedroom nice apartment for $650 a month one so.
(09-24-2023, 10:58 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]Rent is the biggest problem. The cost of living compared to 20 years ago is a huge difference. I remember when you could get a 2 bedroom nice apartment for $650 a month one so.
We should make sure more houses and apartments are built. Local governments just need to get out of the way.
You can only solve the issue for the people who don't want to be homeless, unfortunately that isn't the majority of them.
People on drugs or mentally ill are more and more %. Then the people who just don't want to work that hard to have a home but have no money to spend.
You have to remove the drugs, remove the option to stay on the streets, and force treatment or confinement (they choose). Then you can start solving the other issues but you also need to set a limit of help or you go to confinement.
Other options give them an area to setup utopia and give them all the drugs they want. They'll end the problem themselves. That wouldn't be great though because a lot of them have mental issues also and they can't make decisions. If you said to them here are free drugs but don't do all of them or you will die, how many of they would still use all of them instead of just some?
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(09-24-2023, 11:01 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2023, 10:58 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]Rent is the biggest problem. The cost of living compared to 20 years ago is a huge difference. I remember when you could get a 2 bedroom nice apartment for $650 a month one so.
We should make sure more houses and apartments are built. Local governments just need to get out of the way.
Great plan Einstien. What happens when their lights go out and the toilets won't flush? Oh, wait, toilets won't be a problem because the water supply has already dried up.
If you knew anything about development, you would know how critical infrastructure is. The solution is not quite so simple. While some municipal and state regulatory bodies are overly restrictive (depending on one's point of view) their involvement is absolutely necessary.
(09-25-2023, 07:51 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2023, 11:01 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]We should make sure more houses and apartments are built. Local governments just need to get out of the way.
Great plan Einstien. What happens when their lights go out and the toilets won't flush? Oh, wait, toilets won't be a problem because the water supply has already dried up.
If you knew anything about development, you would know how critical infrastructure is. The solution is not quite so simple. While some municipal and state regulatory bodies are overly restrictive (depending on one's point of view) their involvement is absolutely necessary.
I basically work for developers.
I am intimately aware of the process. Utility companies quote prices to developers for any infrastructure upgrade that a proposed new development needs. Roads are more complicated aspect because the city council / County commission get involved, but roads, water and electricity are usually solved quickly. Stormwater too. The engineers tell you what to build and you build it.
The holdup is usually at the zoning level, and not related to infrastructure at all, just related to the biases of the existing residents and their desire to keep everything the same. All of the engineering problems can be solved with more money. The zoning problems are usually unsolvable.
In unincorporated parts of Florida, this is usually not a problem, but it is a problem in certain parts of certain cities. In California, it's a problem in pretty much every city.
As far as water running out, sure, in Phoenix and Vegas that's a concern, but most places no.
Again, stop assuming you know more than me. At least be nice if you're going to disagree.
Local governments are how the people protect themselves. I know we don't want any more growth in our county. That's my choice as a citizen. I will literally vote for commissioners who promise not to expand housing projects.
(09-25-2023, 10:14 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Local governments are how the people protect themselves. I know we don't want any more growth in our county. That's my choice as a citizen. I will literally vote for commissioners who promise not to expand housing projects.
Then don't complain when rent prices go up and more people end up on the streets.
It's not just local governments. It's lack of quality jobs, lack of access to mental healthcare, poor enforcement of drug policies, lack of purpose. Additionally, you have investment firms buying homes and rental properties, then driving up prices to increase shareholder value. There's nothing human about that. I don't mind local governments creating pockets of low-income housing and building centers to help treat those with mental health problems. What I do mind (and what is happening), is big dollar companies coming in with no regard for the local citizens, building whatever they want to make a buck, then leaving without any regard for the fallout of what they care. I do mind when local politicians profit from this, either directly or indirectly. That's what's happening.
In my area, builders PAY the local officials to NOT have to build/offer affordable housing/apartments. That's the major problem here.........
(09-25-2023, 10:41 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]It's not just local governments. It's lack of quality jobs, lack of access to mental healthcare, poor enforcement of drug policies, lack of purpose. Additionally, you have investment firms buying homes and rental properties, then driving up prices to increase shareholder value. There's nothing human about that. I don't mind local governments creating pockets of low-income housing and building centers to help treat those with mental health problems. What I do mind (and what is happening), is big dollar companies coming in with no regard for the local citizens, building whatever they want to make a buck, then leaving without any regard for the fallout of what they care. I do mind when local politicians profit from this, either directly or indirectly. That's what's happening.
Most people agree that more low income housing should be built "somewhere else."
Most people are turned off by new development that is perceived as luxury or unaffordable.
What people fail to understand is that housing is housing. New luxury units increase supply, and every older and less luxurious unit gets a downward pressure on its rent price after the new unit comes online. Supply and demand. Law of rent. It's all there. Are we conservatives or not?
It's a bedrock conservative principle that economic activity, even activity with bad motives such as greed, will benefit all so long as it is not coerced and not deceptive or fraudulent. Are you rejecting that now?
(09-25-2023, 10:50 AM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]In my area, builders PAY the local officials to NOT have to build/offer affordable housing/apartments. That's the major problem here.........
That's obviously not good. Does the money go to the local government or to the officials?