(09-30-2023, 03:59 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2023, 03:46 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I see now my answer was not clear. Whelan should have been the negotiating prize. If the release of only one person was all that Russia would negotiate, it would be Whelan. However, considering the value of Bout, getting both released for Bout in exchange was achievable. But only if Biden's handlers were willing to play hardball, and they were not. Freeing the black lesbian was essential to their cause and the Russians knew it and capitalized on it. Why do you think they imprisoned her in the first place?
If someone is considered first in line, what does that typically indicate?
If you're negotiating, do you allow the other side to set all of the conditions?
Come on, Mike, you can do this. I know you can.
Why is Whelan first in line?
Suppose Russia was holding 10 American petroleum workers with no connection to national defense or government. Russia just accuses them of jaywalking and holds them. They are various races, all men, not gay.
Is Whelan still "first in line" over all 10 them? Why?
Their race, gender or sexual preference have nothing to do with it. Think really hard. You can do this, Mike. I know you can!
(09-30-2023, 04:27 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2023, 03:59 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Why is Whelan first in line?
Suppose Russia was holding 10 American petroleum workers with no connection to national defense or government. Russia just accuses them of jaywalking and holds them. They are various races, all men, not gay.
Is Whelan still "first in line" over all 10 them? Why?
Their race, gender or sexual preference have nothing to do with it. Think really hard. You can do this, Mike. I know you can!
Obviously what you think is obvious isn't obvious. Is Whelan still "first in line" and why?
Suppose Russia then arrests a couple of American foreign exchange students for driving without a license. Is Whelan still "first in line"? Suppose Putin says he will release the 10 petroleum workers and the 2 foreign exchange students for $1,000 each but he still wants sanctions relief for Whelan. Is Whelan still "first in line"?
(09-30-2023, 05:20 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2023, 04:27 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Their race, gender or sexual preference have nothing to do with it. Think really hard. You can do this, Mike. I know you can!
Obviously what you think is obvious isn't obvious. Is Whelan still "first in line" and why?
Suppose Russia then arrests a couple of American foreign exchange students for driving without a license. Is Whelan still "first in line"? Suppose Putin says he will release the 10 petroleum workers and the 2 foreign exchange students for $1,000 each but he still wants sanctions relief for Whelan. Is Whelan still "first in line"?
Oops. Lol. This is a little embarrassing. I should have known better than to ask to state an obvious fact because it provided an opportunity for you to attempt an escape by creating a tangent, which you did. And a good one at that; foreign exchange students, petroleum workers and even a dollar figure! Very impressive.
Since you are avoiding said obvious fact (and I really don't feel like stepping around another deflection attempt) let me state it. Paul Whelan had priority consideration because he had already been imprisoned for three years when Griner was arrested. As is the custom for imprisoned Americans abroad, there were certainly back-channel communications to secure a release for Whelan. Exchanging Bout for his release was probably an element of those communications.
And then, the anthem kneeling black lesbian landed in the lap of Vladamir Putin, who knew instinctively this was a game changer because of how she identified and how that identification was central to the ideology of Joe Biden's handlers. Suddenly, Whelan is off the table. The Russians understand American leftist politics and its emphasis on symbology. And, of course, a disregard for priority considerations. Surely the American President and his party wouldn't dare allow an anthem kneeling black lesbian to molder in a Russian prison (in this era of rampant anthem kneeling and black lesbian celebration) while securing the release of some white guy who probably votes Republican. Blasphemy!
We all know what happened next. The white guy remains in a Russian prison while the lever that could have very well sprung him was squandered on a social and ideological symbol in order to curry political favor. Biden's handlers got their girl back, not what logic and inherent fairness dictated.
Edit: Btw, does anyone remember how Joe Biden's handlers publicly fawned over Griner's wife, and even invited her to the White House, while Whelan's family stated they had been left largely in the dark? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
(09-30-2023, 07:04 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2023, 05:20 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Obviously what you think is obvious isn't obvious. Is Whelan still "first in line" and why?
Suppose Russia then arrests a couple of American foreign exchange students for driving without a license. Is Whelan still "first in line"? Suppose Putin says he will release the 10 petroleum workers and the 2 foreign exchange students for $1,000 each but he still wants sanctions relief for Whelan. Is Whelan still "first in line"?
Oops. Lol. This is a little embarrassing. I should have known better than to ask to state an obvious fact because it provided an opportunity for you to attempt an escape by creating a tangent, which you did. And a good one at that; foreign exchange students, petroleum workers and even a dollar figure! Very impressive.
Since you are avoiding said obvious fact (and I really don't feel like stepping around another deflection attempt) let me state it. Paul Whelan had priority consideration because he had already been imprisoned for three years when Griner was arrested. As is the custom for imprisoned Americans abroad, there were certainly back-channel communications to secure a release for Whelan. Exchanging Bout for his release was probably an element of those communications.
And then, the anthem kneeling black lesbian landed in the lap of Vladamir Putin, who knew instinctively this was a game changer because of how she identified and how that identification was central to the ideology of Joe Biden's handlers. Suddenly, Whelan is off the table. The Russians understand American leftist politics and its emphasis on symbology. And, of course, a disregard for priority considerations. Surely the American President and his party wouldn't dare allow an anthem kneeling black lesbian to molder in a Russian prison (in this era of rampant anthem kneeling and black lesbian celebration) while securing the release of some white guy who probably votes Republican. Blasphemy!
We all know what happened next. The white guy remains in a Russian prison while the lever that could have very well sprung him was squandered on a social and ideological symbol in order to curry political favor. Biden's handlers got their girl back, not what logic and inherent fairness dictated.
Edit: Btw, does anyone remember how Joe Biden's handlers publicly fawned over Griner's wife, and even invited her to the White House, while Whelan's family stated they had been left largely in the dark? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
So if Griner had been arrested before Whelan, you would have no complaint?
And those hypothetical small fry students and workers, if they were arrested after Whelan, they have to stay in prison until a deal is made for Whelan?
(09-30-2023, 08:15 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2023, 07:04 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Oops. Lol. This is a little embarrassing. I should have known better than to ask to state an obvious fact because it provided an opportunity for you to attempt an escape by creating a tangent, which you did. And a good one at that; foreign exchange students, petroleum workers and even a dollar figure! Very impressive.
Since you are avoiding said obvious fact (and I really don't feel like stepping around another deflection attempt) let me state it. Paul Whelan had priority consideration because he had already been imprisoned for three years when Griner was arrested. As is the custom for imprisoned Americans abroad, there were certainly back-channel communications to secure a release for Whelan. Exchanging Bout for his release was probably an element of those communications.
And then, the anthem kneeling black lesbian landed in the lap of Vladamir Putin, who knew instinctively this was a game changer because of how she identified and how that identification was central to the ideology of Joe Biden's handlers. Suddenly, Whelan is off the table. The Russians understand American leftist politics and its emphasis on symbology. And, of course, a disregard for priority considerations. Surely the American President and his party wouldn't dare allow an anthem kneeling black lesbian to molder in a Russian prison (in this era of rampant anthem kneeling and black lesbian celebration) while securing the release of some white guy who probably votes Republican. Blasphemy!
We all know what happened next. The white guy remains in a Russian prison while the lever that could have very well sprung him was squandered on a social and ideological symbol in order to curry political favor. Biden's handlers got their girl back, not what logic and inherent fairness dictated.
Edit: Btw, does anyone remember how Joe Biden's handlers publicly fawned over Griner's wife, and even invited her to the White House, while Whelan's family stated they had been left largely in the dark? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
So if Griner had been arrested before Whelan, you would have no complaint?
And those hypothetical small fry students and workers, if they were arrested after Whelan, they have to stay in prison until a deal is made for Whelan?
Your hypotheticals accomplish nothing but to muddy the waters. We're talking about this case and these circumstances.
Would I have a complaint were their roles reversed? Absolutely not. If Griner has been languishing in a Russian jail for three years before Whelan was arrested, he would be told to get comfortable and wait for help. If this administration had any fortitude, they could have finagled a trade for both in exchange for one of the most wanted and reviled men on earth. Alas...
I'm sure you thought my argument was about race and sexual identity. It was not, at all. My intent is to illustrate how easily manipulated our government was by a sworn opponent using our social mores. This was nothing but a display of abject weakness by this administration, widely noted on the global scale along with our exit from Afghanistan. What did Russia do not long after Griner was let go? Grabbed a NYT reporter. They know we're weak.
And I would feel as equally disdainful about a Republican administration which did the same. There are clear cut times when we have to stop thinking about sides and start thinking as a nation. We have enemies out there who would love to put the pain to us any chance they get. We are the most powerful nation on earth, and we need to start conducting ourselves like it.
America has a love/hate relationship with the world. They want us on that wall. They need us on that wall.
Edit: I also believe Democrats are more than capable of fielding a strong government. The problem is both parties have such loud wingnuts now that it blurs the center.
(09-30-2023, 11:03 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2023, 08:15 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]So if Griner had been arrested before Whelan, you would have no complaint?
And those hypothetical small fry students and workers, if they were arrested after Whelan, they have to stay in prison until a deal is made for Whelan?
Your hypotheticals accomplish nothing but to muddy the waters. We're talking about this case and these circumstances.
Would I have a complaint were their roles reversed? Absolutely not. If Griner has been languishing in a Russian jail for three years before Whelan was arrested, he would be told to get comfortable and wait for help. If this administration had any fortitude, they could have finagled a trade for both in exchange for one of the most wanted and reviled men on earth. Alas...
I'm sure you thought my argument was about race and sexual identity. It was not, at all. My intent is to illustrate how easily manipulated our government was by a sworn opponent using our social mores. This was nothing but a display of abject weakness by this administration, widely noted on the global scale along with our exit from Afghanistan. What did Russia do not long after Griner was let go? Grabbed a NYT reporter. They know we're weak.
And I would feel as equally disdainful about a Republican administration which did the same. There are clear cut times when we have to stop thinking about sides and start thinking as a nation. We have enemies out there who would love to put the pain to us any chance they get. We are the most powerful nation on earth, and we need to start conducting ourselves like it.
America has a love/hate relationship with the world. They want us on that wall. They need us on that wall.
Edit: I also believe Democrats are more than capable of fielding a strong government. The problem is both parties have such loud wingnuts now that it blurs the center.
So if your brother is visiting Russia as a tourist and gets implicated for starting a bar fight that he (maybe) wasn't even involved in, you'd say, "best of luck, buddy, but we can't get you out until they let Whelan out"
Note that Griner's crime per Russian law was a civilian crime that typically carries a 15 day sentence and she had been held for 10 months at that point. On the other hand Whelan is charged under military law.
(10-01-2023, 09:14 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2023, 11:03 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Your hypotheticals accomplish nothing but to muddy the waters. We're talking about this case and these circumstances.
Would I have a complaint were their roles reversed? Absolutely not. If Griner has been languishing in a Russian jail for three years before Whelan was arrested, he would be told to get comfortable and wait for help. If this administration had any fortitude, they could have finagled a trade for both in exchange for one of the most wanted and reviled men on earth. Alas...
I'm sure you thought my argument was about race and sexual identity. It was not, at all. My intent is to illustrate how easily manipulated our government was by a sworn opponent using our social mores. This was nothing but a display of abject weakness by this administration, widely noted on the global scale along with our exit from Afghanistan. What did Russia do not long after Griner was let go? Grabbed a NYT reporter. They know we're weak.
And I would feel as equally disdainful about a Republican administration which did the same. There are clear cut times when we have to stop thinking about sides and start thinking as a nation. We have enemies out there who would love to put the pain to us any chance they get. We are the most powerful nation on earth, and we need to start conducting ourselves like it.
America has a love/hate relationship with the world. They want us on that wall. They need us on that wall.
Edit: I also believe Democrats are more than capable of fielding a strong government. The problem is both parties have such loud wingnuts now that it blurs the center.
So if your brother is visiting Russia as a tourist and gets implicated for starting a bar fight that he (maybe) wasn't even involved in, you'd say, "best of luck, buddy, but we can't get you out until they let Whelan out"
Note that Griner's crime per Russian law was a civilian crime that typically carries a 15 day sentence and she had been held for 10 months at that point. On the other hand Whelan is charged under military law.
Goodness gracious, more hypotheticals.
(10-01-2023, 09:28 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2023, 09:14 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]So if your brother is visiting Russia as a tourist and gets implicated for starting a bar fight that he (maybe) wasn't even involved in, you'd say, "best of luck, buddy, but we can't get you out until they let Whelan out"
Note that Griner's crime per Russian law was a civilian crime that typically carries a 15 day sentence and she had been held for 10 months at that point. On the other hand Whelan is charged under military law.
Goodness gracious, more hypotheticals.
It’s like trying to nail jello to the wall. Not gonna happen.
Meanwhile Mike be like…fish onnnnn!!!!!!!
(10-01-2023, 02:21 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2023, 09:28 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Goodness gracious, more hypotheticals.
It’s like trying to nail jello to the wall. Not gonna happen.
Meanwhile Mike be like…fish onnnnn!!!!!!!
I'll be firmer than any of you. A "first in, first out" rule is useless for prison terms and prisoner exchanges. I'm trying to get HB to realize that (1) that's not actually why he's upset, because if it was, it wouldn't have taken him 10 posts to articulate the rule, and (2) the rule gives absurd results.
(10-01-2023, 03:29 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2023, 02:21 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]It’s like trying to nail jello to the wall. Not gonna happen.
Meanwhile Mike be like…fish onnnnn!!!!!!!
I'll be firmer than any of you. A "first in, first out" rule is useless for prison terms and prisoner exchanges. I'm trying to get HB to realize that (1) that's not actually why he's upset, because if it was, it wouldn't have taken him 10 posts to articulate the rule, and (2) the rule gives absurd results.
I'm upset about nothing. The "rule" was your feckless attempt to steer the thread away from my original premise.
Regardless, I'm standing here with your daddy Joe, and he has a question since you're so good at hypotheticals.
He asks, 'When I pooped my pants at the Vatican, does that qualify as a Holy [BLEEP]?' He's really getting a chuckle out of that one.
(09-29-2023, 11:41 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (09-29-2023, 11:16 AM)KingIngram052787 Wrote: [ -> ]Probably because here we make everything about race, so if they're perceived as not killing/torturing a POC, then they hope that reflects kindly based on the values that seem most important to us.
They obviously didn't take the Russian method to heart. They exchanged an anthem-kneeling black lesbian for a king's ransom because they knew those attributes are what is most valued by this administration. We know this because they left Paul Whelan to rot.
And what did his genuflection to Putin's demands get us? Another U.S. hostage taken in Evan Gershkovich.
The ENTIRE world sees the Biden administration as total pushovers. Especially when it comes to catering to racial and sexual minorities.
Your premise is that Biden is weak because he handled the Britney Griner situation poorly. You didn't articulate why, so I started asking why. You definitely mentioned that Britney kneeled for the anthem, is black, and is a lesbian, but you didn't mention that Whelan had been in jail longer.
So I was just trying to find out if there was some sort of principle behind your complaint, or it you were just complaining for complaining's sake. Along the way you said that her race and sexuality didn't matter, so I guess kneeling for the anthem is the problem? If there is no over-arching principle to you complaint, then you're the feckless one, not me.
(10-01-2023, 08:46 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-29-2023, 11:41 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]They obviously didn't take the Russian method to heart. They exchanged an anthem-kneeling black lesbian for a king's ransom because they knew those attributes are what is most valued by this administration. We know this because they left Paul Whelan to rot.
And what did his genuflection to Putin's demands get us? Another U.S. hostage taken in Evan Gershkovich.
The ENTIRE world sees the Biden administration as total pushovers. Especially when it comes to catering to racial and sexual minorities.
Your premise is that Biden is weak because he handled the Britney Griner situation poorly. You didn't articulate why, so I started asking why. You definitely mentioned that Britney kneeled for the anthem, is black, and is a lesbian, but you didn't mention that Whelan had been in jail longer.
So I was just trying to find out if there was some sort of principle behind your complaint, or it you were just complaining for complaining's sake. Along the way you said that her race and sexuality didn't matter, so I guess kneeling for the anthem is the problem? If there is no over-arching principle to you complaint, then you're the feckless one, not me.
Biden is weak for a multitude of reasons, not just because of his handling of the Griner situation. Black, lesbian and kneeling simply illustrate the extent to which Biden pandered to the left in consummating the Britney Griner for Viktor Bout exchange. The bottom line is, he traded a pawn for a king.
(10-02-2023, 02:15 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2023, 08:46 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Your premise is that Biden is weak because he handled the Britney Griner situation poorly. You didn't articulate why, so I started asking why. You definitely mentioned that Britney kneeled for the anthem, is black, and is a lesbian, but you didn't mention that Whelan had been in jail longer.
So I was just trying to find out if there was some sort of principle behind your complaint, or it you were just complaining for complaining's sake. Along the way you said that her race and sexuality didn't matter, so I guess kneeling for the anthem is the problem? If there is no over-arching principle to you complaint, then you're the feckless one, not me.
Biden is weak for a multitude of reasons, not just because of his handling of the Griner situation. Black, lesbian and kneeling simply illustrate the extent to which Biden pandered to the left in consummating the Britney Griner for Viktor Bout exchange. The bottom line is, he traded a pawn for a king.
Do you think Biden put a higher priority on getting Griner back because she was black or lesbian or a kneeler? The media definitely gave her more attention because she is an athlete and a political activist, but did that affect Biden's decision? How do you know? Why do you reject the simpler explanation, that Biden just took the deal that was available?
(10-01-2023, 09:14 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2023, 11:03 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Your hypotheticals accomplish nothing but to muddy the waters. We're talking about this case and these circumstances.
Would I have a complaint were their roles reversed? Absolutely not. If Griner has been languishing in a Russian jail for three years before Whelan was arrested, he would be told to get comfortable and wait for help. If this administration had any fortitude, they could have finagled a trade for both in exchange for one of the most wanted and reviled men on earth. Alas...
I'm sure you thought my argument was about race and sexual identity. It was not, at all. My intent is to illustrate how easily manipulated our government was by a sworn opponent using our social mores. This was nothing but a display of abject weakness by this administration, widely noted on the global scale along with our exit from Afghanistan. What did Russia do not long after Griner was let go? Grabbed a NYT reporter. They know we're weak.
And I would feel as equally disdainful about a Republican administration which did the same. There are clear cut times when we have to stop thinking about sides and start thinking as a nation. We have enemies out there who would love to put the pain to us any chance they get. We are the most powerful nation on earth, and we need to start conducting ourselves like it.
America has a love/hate relationship with the world. They want us on that wall. They need us on that wall.
Edit: I also believe Democrats are more than capable of fielding a strong government. The problem is both parties have such loud wingnuts now that it blurs the center.
So if your brother is visiting Russia as a tourist and gets implicated for starting a bar fight that he (maybe) wasn't even involved in, you'd say, "best of luck, buddy, but we can't get you out until they let Whelan out"
Note that Griner's crime per Russian law was a civilian crime that typically carries a 15 day sentence and she had been held for 10 months at that point. On the other hand Whelan is charged under military law.
I would have to say that if you visit a country that is currently on the Level 4 - Do Not Travel List, then you are on your own. That includes Russia.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/...ries.html/
(10-02-2023, 03:42 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 02:15 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]Biden is weak for a multitude of reasons, not just because of his handling of the Griner situation. Black, lesbian and kneeling simply illustrate the extent to which Biden pandered to the left in consummating the Britney Griner for Viktor Bout exchange. The bottom line is, he traded a pawn for a king.
Do you think Biden put a higher priority on getting Griner back because she was black or lesbian or a kneeler? The media definitely gave her more attention because she is an athlete and a political activist, but did that affect Biden's decision? How do you know? Why do you reject the simpler explanation, that Biden just took the deal that was available?
Yes, yes and yes. She represented the perfect trifecta, and he seized the opportunity to curry favor with his support base. Are you really naive enough to believe that was the best/only deal available?
(10-02-2023, 05:36 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2023, 09:14 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]So if your brother is visiting Russia as a tourist and gets implicated for starting a bar fight that he (maybe) wasn't even involved in, you'd say, "best of luck, buddy, but we can't get you out until they let Whelan out"
Note that Griner's crime per Russian law was a civilian crime that typically carries a 15 day sentence and she had been held for 10 months at that point. On the other hand Whelan is charged under military law.
I would have to say that if you visit a country that is currently on the Level 4 - Do Not Travel List, then you are on your own. That includes Russia.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/...ries.html/
I agree with you, but if Russia offered him back for $10,000? I'd hope Biden took that offer instead of saying "first in, first out. you have to wait until they let Paul Whelan out."
(10-02-2023, 07:07 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 03:42 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Do you think Biden put a higher priority on getting Griner back because she was black or lesbian or a kneeler? The media definitely gave her more attention because she is an athlete and a political activist, but did that affect Biden's decision? How do you know? Why do you reject the simpler explanation, that Biden just took the deal that was available?
Yes, yes and yes. She represented the perfect trifecta, and he seized the opportunity to curry favor with his support base. Are you really naive enough to believe that was the best/only deal available?
It might have been the best deal. Or not. Why are you sure it wasn't? I'm being skeptical. You're being naive, but your naiveté is guided by hatred for Biden.
(10-02-2023, 07:17 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 05:36 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]I would have to say that if you visit a country that is currently on the Level 4 - Do Not Travel List, then you are on your own. That includes Russia.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/...ries.html/
I agree with you, but if Russia offered him back for $10,000? I'd hope Biden took that offer instead of saying "first in, first out. you have to wait until they let Paul Whelan out."
(10-02-2023, 07:07 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, yes and yes. She represented the perfect trifecta, and he seized the opportunity to curry favor with his support base. Are you really naive enough to believe that was the best/only deal available?
It might have been the best deal. Or not. Why are you sure it wasn't? I'm being skeptical. You're being naive, but your naiveté is guided by hatred for Biden.
Not really, we know politicians will do anything to score political points for the buzz word/hot topic of the day.
(10-02-2023, 07:25 PM)KingIngram052787 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 07:17 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with you, but if Russia offered him back for $10,000? I'd hope Biden took that offer instead of saying "first in, first out. you have to wait until they let Paul Whelan out."
It might have been the best deal. Or not. Why are you sure it wasn't? I'm being skeptical. You're being naive, but your naiveté is guided by hatred for Biden.
Not really, we know politicians will do anything to score political points for the buzz word/hot topic of the day.
Now your naivete is guided by cynicism.
No more or less valid than hatred.
Skepticism is the only stance supported by the record.
(10-02-2023, 07:17 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-02-2023, 07:07 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, yes and yes. She represented the perfect trifecta, and he seized the opportunity to curry favor with his support base. Are you really naive enough to believe that was the best/only deal available?
It might have been the best deal. Or not. Why are you sure it wasn't? I'm being skeptical. You're being naive, but your naiveté is guided by hatred for Biden.
You don't make a deal, simply because it's the best, or only, offer of the moment. If you had any experience in negotiations, you would understand this. If the value isn't there, you walk away. Griner for Bout was simply a terrible trade.
I don't hate Biden, I'm just not blind to his incompetence like you are.
(10-02-2023, 07:17 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-02-2023, 07:07 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, yes and yes. She represented the perfect trifecta, and he seized the opportunity to curry favor with his support base. Are you really naive enough to believe that was the best/only deal available?
It might have been the best deal. Or not. Why are you sure it wasn't? I'm being skeptical. You're being naive, but your naiveté is guided by hatred for Biden.