Lets be real about something. Lawrence is a good QB but he is far from elite. In fact, Lawrence isn't even the best QB in our division because CJ Stroud has taken that mantle.
Lawrence has very mediocre numbers this year. A 90 rating (good) 9 TDs in 9 games, and 6 ints along with a ton of fumbles. Lawrence has a good receiving group. Engram is a great tight end. The production is just not there when looking at the numbers. Yesterday he looked like a pure rookie with being lost all game. He struggles against man coverage while folding like a cheap tent under pressure. I know the offensive line is a problem but sometimes the man behind the center can help the line.
This loss was not all on Lawrence. The defense fell apart along with the team just giving away the ball too much. Yes the line is a problem but that is not the whole story. Lawrence is on pace for 16 TDs and around 10 ints this year. Kirk was the only real productive player on the field yesterday. Is it players around the QB failing or is it the QB the issue? This isn't just about yesterday but the offense has been very bi-polar all year.
The all 22 will reveal if Lawrence was failing to find open receivers in time. Most likely he was and it's on him. Could be as simple as not getting enough sleep on Saturday night.
- OL (pass protection)
- OL (run blocking)
- Trevor has made some bad decisions
- OL (no pocket)
- ETN not being used effectively because of the ...
- OL (missed assignments/communication fails)
- Why the hell is Tank Bigsby on the damn field???
- OL (If you're looking for offensive coaches to scapegoat - start with Rauscher)
- Press Taylor isn't Doug Pederson, but he's doing a solid enough job. Maybe Doug takes over soon. Meh.
- OL
The line, lack of creativity, and yes sometimes Trevor fumbling or not making the best quick read.
There’s already a Trevor thread tho so take it there don’t need a whole other thread on it
(11-13-2023, 12:31 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The all 22 will reveal if Lawrence was failing to find open receivers in time. Most likely he was and it's on him. Could be as simple as not getting enough sleep on Saturday night.
They highlighted a play yesterday during the broadcast that was eye opening.
I think it was Kirk that was wide open on the right side of the field. Instead of throwing that, Lawrence forces an incomplete pass between 2 defenders. I do not see enough of the film to know how often that kind of thing happens.
(11-13-2023, 12:37 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ] (11-13-2023, 12:31 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The all 22 will reveal if Lawrence was failing to find open receivers in time. Most likely he was and it's on him. Could be as simple as not getting enough sleep on Saturday night.
They highlighted a play yesterday during the broadcast that was eye opening.
I think it was Kirk that was wide open on the right side of the field. Instead of throwing that, Lawrence forces an incomplete pass between 2 defenders. I do not see enough of the film to know how often that kind of thing happens.
I think I know which play it was.
He was already running forward and moving up the interior of the pocket to escape the rush and he tried to zip it to Strange. It would have been tough for him to not only see Kirk at the point but also make that throw.
By the way, he got it to Kirk downfield, puts us in the red zone, then Kirk promptly coughs up the ball next play after. This offense has got to stop turning the ball over. And get Bigsby off the damn field
It's a soup. QB, coaching, player call and skill groups all have a hand in these shortcomings this year. In spite of having a 6 - 3 record. They're clearly out of sync.
We continue to see 3rd and 1 shotgun formations and play calls. We continue to see them move the ball over the 50 yard line and then proceed to [BLEEP] the bed and turn the ball over inside the red zone.
We continue to see, more than anything, and, whether anybody likes it or not, the primary culprit, the offensive line.
Look. The offensive line makes up essentially half of your starting offense. Those five guys have to get it done in the trenches. They didn't. They were bullied yesterday and it continues to have a trickle down effect. Period. It was apparent from the very first snap.
Other than calling some different plays or throwing different looks out there? There's really not a whole lot you can do right now to fix it. We'll have to keep playing good defense, Lawrence is going to have to hang in the pocket or move outside of the pocket or scramble to keep drives alive and we're going to have to do all of that while playing mistake free football and limiting our turnovers.
Tall order. You can get away with that kind of play against average teams or teams on the same level as you're currently on. Against well coached, well developed football teams? Not happening. This is why we lost to the Chiefs for the third time in a row. This is why we got our [BLEEP] kicked yesterday. Great teams make good teams look like average teams or just flatout bad teams.
If they can beat the tacks, split the series with the tinhorns, manage not to lose to the Buccaneers and Panthers, and, maybe figure out a win against Baltimore, Cincinatti or Cleveland? They'll get at least 10 to 11 wins which should be good enough to get you into the post season.
Trev definitely missed some open WRs, especially that one where Strange was wide open. But it's a combination of bad decisions by QB, horrible protection, and an insanely good 9ers D
I think that he was shook early on and didn’t recover mentally. These are actual humans. He got smashed on a few of those early hits. Could easily have had a mild concussion.
(11-13-2023, 01:14 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]I think that he was shook early on and didn’t recover mentally. These are actual humans. He got smashed on a few of those early hits. Could easily have had a mild concussion.
Hit the nail on the head.
I said yesterday that his internal clock got sped up so fast because of the amount of pressure he had early on. He knew rather quickly that his Oline wasn't going to be able to hold up so he tried to do too much.
Ben Solak who writes for the ringer posted this earlier. Rings true based on what we see but didn't realize just how far behind thr league we are.
"According to Next Gen Stats, only 7.4 percent of the Jaguars’ routes go further than 20 yards downfield—that’s last in the league by a comfortable margin. When looking at routes from just wide and slot alignments (i.e., removing routes that are typically shallow, from inline tight ends and backs in the backfield), the Jaguars are the only team with an average route depth (9.9 yards) under 10.
The Jags just don’t run receivers downfield. "
I know early in the year we were thinking thr horizontal passing game was due to oline injuries. And while the line isn't great it's not much different than last year. I'm sure Zay being out hurts as well. But I think ultimately it's just a conservative game plan. You have to stretch the defense. Everything is just too condensed.
It all starts from the OL. They can't offer a consistent run game (not that I think this staff has it in its blood), they can't pass protect for anything over 10 yards and this impact both the gameplan/playcalling and the decisions taken by the QB at the line.
Also, people seem to have forgotten how many times this offense struggled last year or how many times Doug got way too cute in the RZ or got away from what was working all of a sudden (especially early in the season with Etienne at times averaging like 7-8 yads per carry and then on the bench).
Have we forgot how after running over the Eagles and up 14-0 in a rainstorm Doug got pass pass pass happy leading to all those Trevor fumbles?
The Houston game?
The Lions game?
The Chargers first half in the playoffs or the miraculous come back wins against Raiders, Ravens, Cowboys with the ofense who for entire halfs struggled mightly?
This year we expected more consistency and more explosivity but this Oline doesn't give you that and for good reason: they basically didn't address it!
You got zero improvement there.
We don't have big receivers to throw it up to for 50/50 balls, our backup RB is a downgrade from what we had last year or what we have this year (but he somehow plays more than the other 2, one who was cut and one who finally had some plays yesterday).
49ers did exactly what the Chargers did in the first half of the playoffs game last year: cover everything short and at the line and wait for the obvious passing situation to make that OL pay. The difference is that the 49ers front is elite and much much better than the Chargers one.
It's not all bad, we will win more games just like we won games this season. We had a defense so far who was able to cover up some of the offense faults by giving us short fields or the ball back multiple times.
We took advantage of bad opposing QB play (Ridder, Carr, Pickett) and deservedly so. But you can't mask OL issues like we have all the time and when you fall behind against an elite front like the Chiefs or the 49ers what happens is what we saw yesterday.
There's still time to get better but they'll have to make some tough decisions.
(11-13-2023, 01:32 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/11/13...ler-murray
Scroll down to find his Jags takes. I think this is where I'm at.
"But even if Taylor is running the offense this way to protect the line, he has dramatically overreacted. According to Next Gen Stats, only 7.4 percent of the Jaguars’ routes go further than 20 yards downfield—that’s last in the league by a comfortable margin. When looking at routes from just wide and slot alignments (i.e., removing routes that are typically shallow, from inline tight ends and backs in the backfield), the Jaguars are the only team with an average route depth (9.9 yards) under 10."
Hopefully this is large enough for some of the dumb [BLEEP] to read and maybe understand...
But no, it's not the OC. It can never be our lord and savior, Press Taylor. Hallowed be thine name.
(11-13-2023, 12:37 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]
- OL (pass protection)
- OL (run blocking)
- Trevor has made some bad decisions
- OL (no pocket)
- ETN not being used effectively because of the ...
- OL (missed assignments/communication fails)
- Why the hell is Tank Bigsby on the damn field???
- OL (If you're looking for offensive coaches to scapegoat - start with Rauscher)
- Press Taylor isn't Doug Pederson, but he's doing a solid enough job. Maybe Doug takes over soon. Meh.
- OL
+1
As far as why Tank was on the field. I'm pretty sure ETN sustained a ding, which had Johnson in at TB for a series. If Johnson was getting a good amount of work (which he was)...he needed a breather, and if ETN had a ding (which I'm sure he did which I assume is why Johnson was on the field)...Tank is the backup. They'd released Hasty last week.
Agree with the rest of your post though.
I think tank will be third string running back soon. I like him, but he doesn’t protect the ball with his stone hands.
(11-13-2023, 01:32 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/11/13...ler-murray
Scroll down to find his Jags takes. I think this is where I'm at.
Good article.
Puts a lot of the burn on Press Taylor and the design of the plays that the Jags run. I agree whole heartedly, and the poor redzone performance and lack of ability to get deep shots (compared to the rest of the league) bears fruit.
Trevor could be making better decisions, but if I'm being honest...I almost never see Ridley cleanly open. Sure, he gets doubled...but so do most # 1 receivers in the league and the good ones still get their numbers.
Sometimes the playcaller/designer has to help his QB/Receiver/RB.
I don't see Press doing that.
Still think the Jags have had poor LG/Center/RG performances all year long. Sure, the RT is taking his rookie lumps, but NOONE on the interior line sustains blocks. Fortner is still strength weak for a starting NFL center.
I have been relatively fair with not bashing Press Taylor. I felt like week two against the Chiefs in particular fell on execution more than anything with the dropped passes, the fumbles, etc.
Kirk's fumble yesterday is the 2nd or 3rd time this year he's done that. The last one being after a big catch and run attempt against the Saints. He was able to redeem himself with a clincher in the 4th though.
I think other than that? I would have liked to have seen more screens incorporated, which, to be fair, there was two big play opportunities this year with the screen plays that got nixed by Harrison not selling or doing enough with his blocking assignment in those situations in particular.
The one thing I will admit that I am tired of seeing this year or have NOT seen this year. This is well before Lawrence's knee injury. Lack of designed rollouts, bootlegs, sprints and layered route concepts.
We saw some of that last year. Where, Lawrence would roll to his right or left and you would have underneath, mid and deep routes being ran from the other side to his side he was rolling towards. Some of his best plays and moments are when he's outside of the pocket and on the move. I feel like that's been limited this year.
My other complaint. 3rd and 1 and we're playing from the shotgun formation. That probably burns my [BLEEP] up more than anything as a spectator. Do I expect them to line it up and run it right up the middle or do a QB sneak on EVERY 3rd and 1 and convert it? No. Of course not.
But, God [BLEEP] forbid on 3rd and 1 this team does less gun stuff and more under center stuff with Lawrence. Where's the split backfield? Where's the TE motion? Where's the creativity there? Why would we continue to insist upon running shotgun in these short situations knowing that the offensive line is struggling consistently, knowing that you're now putting the QB 5 yards away from the line needed to convert for a 1st down?
It's just bad coaching and bad decision making to me. Something I cannot grasp as a fan. 6 - 3 is nice. But, the offense has to start pulling it's weight soon and fast. Eight games left. They have to pick-up the tempo, they have to establish an identity outside of "Etienne early, not there? [BLEEP] it, we're done for". Because that seems to be the issue this year.
If Etienne can't go? Nothing goes. You cannot have that sense or feeling on gamedays with a QB of Lawrence's caliber, arm talent and potential. You cannot have this shutting down of the offense when you have a 3rd / 2nd RD pick invested in Ridley, contracts tied up on Kirk and Engram, etc. Something has to [BLEEP] give here.
What can the offensive line do as a unit? Figure that out first and stick to that more often than not. If it means getting mean and nasty on the left side in the ground game? [BLEEP] do it. If you have to add a TE out there to block more often? [BLEEP] do it. You dropped a 2nd RD pick on a guy for that specifically did you not?
(11-13-2023, 02:20 PM)AnOldBrownie Wrote: [ -> ] (11-13-2023, 01:32 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/11/13...ler-murray
Scroll down to find his Jags takes. I think this is where I'm at.
Good article.
Puts a lot of the burn on Press Taylor and the design of the plays that the Jags run. I agree whole heartedly, and the poor redzone performance and lack of ability to get deep shots (compared to the rest of the league) bears fruit.
Trevor could be making better decisions, but if I'm being honest...I almost never see Ridley cleanly open. Sure, he gets doubled...but so do most # 1 receivers in the league and the good ones still get their numbers.
Sometimes the playcaller/designer has to help his QB/Receiver/RB.
I don't see Press doing that.
Still think the Jags have had poor LG/Center/RG performances all year long. Sure, the RT is taking his rookie lumps, but NOONE on the interior line sustains blocks. Fortner is still strength weak for a starting NFL center.
Unfortunately - Ben Solak didn't hear or read Pederson's interviews about their process offensively.
Doug has said prior to each of his seasons in Jax that he heads up a collective of his offensive coaches for designing the plays that make their way into the play book. So - while Press Taylor has fingerprints on this playbook, it is largely Doug's baby.
I'd rather be able to say it is primarily a Taylor thing, but he's just a contributor to play design and a game-day caller. It would seem Solak's play design critiques are aimed at the wrong coach. Which sucks, because its the guy we have sort-of trusted the most to get it right lately.
Whatever they can identify that is holding the offense back besides the OL (and it is mostly the OL) I really hope they find a way to improve it.
If it is installing some new plays or variations on those already in place, if it is changing play calling duties, if it is altering route trees, I don't care. I support any improvement wherever they can find it. I just don't see a sea change coming unless the OL steps up their performance.