(11-14-2024, 04:18 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting articles today in the Athletic regarding the odds of teams picks 1st and who they should select. The Jaguars are rated 5th in the race to pick #1. Their chances are a slim 9%, however that is totally dependent on whether Lawrence returns this season. The Raiders are considered the favorite at 30 % and it's quite possible that they won't win another game. Of course, the Jaguars play both the Raiders and Titans at the end of the season and would be favored over each if Trevor returns. As I've said before, at this point the best long-term thing for the team would be to lose out enabling them to have the number 1 pick. Admittedly, it is terribly difficult to pull against the team you love- but winning a few more games this season would do nothing to help the team in 2025 and beyond.
Regarding the best choice for the pick, the writer (Nick Baumgardner) recommends the Jaguars select Travis Hunter. It is difficult to argue with that recommendation since I could envision Hunter playing corner opposite Campbell giving them one of the best duos in the NFL. Due to Hunter's unique talents, he could also be utilized as a receiver on critical passing downs. Imagine having to stop both him and Thomas with Engram as a 3rd option. The Jaguars might still have a shot at Hunter if they pick in the top 5. The only other team in the top 5 likely to take Hunter would be the Titans and the winner of their game on December 29 would likely determine which team has the higher pick. If the Jaguars do end up with the first pick, there's a good chance they'd get an offer from a quarterback needy team like the Giants, Raiders or Jets that would be to hard to pass up. This would enable them to get an additional number 1 pick next season (likely top 15) and still have the opportunity to draft a great player like Huner or Will Johnson in the first round.
The article also mentioned that the Jaguars would be the most desirable destination for a new coach and general manager due to having a potential elite quarterback in Lawrence.
What if we could fix the oline in FA and traded back a few spots and drafted Tetairoa McMillan? Could get a really good corner and safety in the 2nd. Could trade back up into the 2nd as well if needed. We would then just have to find our backup edge and hope Smith and Jefferson improve. I think Armstead and Hamilton will be a good starting DTs. Hamilton is playing his best football in years and finally looks healthy. A improved oline with McMillan opposite BTJ could be a dangerous set of outside WRs with Engram and a healthy Kirk in the slot. No teams have 2 corners that could match up with McMillan and BTJ, McMillan is 6'5 and exactly what Trev thrived with in college. I think McMillan will be on the top of the Pats board so if we want him we have to pick in front of the Pats.
In FA we re sign Walker Little if he finishes strong, a RG, and a veteran Edge.
(11-14-2024, 10:40 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-14-2024, 09:54 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]I stand by my statement. Arguing with a rutabaga.
If you cannot see why the statement "If Jameson Williams and Jamyj Gibbs came out in the same draft you would take Williams. Thats what you call stupid" is only valid with the benefit of hindsight, I fear there is too much to explain about need, positional value, or even statistics to clarify the issue.
Not stupid at all, they were both picked at the same pick dummy, same type of prospect. Not to mention Jameson was also coming off an injury. You keep bringing up hindsight, so [BLEEP] hindsight. Who would you take right now who would be the better pick right now being both are healthy?
'stupid' was YOUR word, hence the quote.
What are my team's needs?
What type of offense do we run?
What does the rest of the darft look like for each position?
I don't evaluate in a vacuum. If EVERY. SINGLE. FACTOR. was equal (we need WR and RB, our offense suits their skillset equally well, both positions are deep in this class), I take the WR every time, especially based on how each performed leading up to the darft. The league favors passing offense, teams tend to put their money into QB and passing game, and generally speaking it's a lot easier to find a decent (not fantastic, mind you) RB later than it is to find the same caliber of WR later.
in hindsight (SWIDT?), that decision would bite me in the rump. Would you take Justin Jefferson, or Etienne? How bout Chase or Barkley? Remember when we considered Etienne the consolation to missing out on Toney? Again, hindsight, we kinda dodged a bullet there.
(11-15-2024, 09:51 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (11-14-2024, 10:40 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Not stupid at all, they were both picked at the same pick dummy, same type of prospect. Not to mention Jameson was also coming off an injury. You keep bringing up hindsight, so [BLEEP] hindsight. Who would you take right now who would be the better pick right now being both are healthy?
'stupid' was YOUR word, hence the quote.
What are my team's needs?
What type of offense do we run?
What does the rest of the darft look like for each position?
I don't evaluate in a vacuum. If EVERY. SINGLE. FACTOR. was equal (we need WR and RB, our offense suits their skillset equally well, both positions are deep in this class), I take the WR every time, especially based on how each performed leading up to the darft. The league favors passing offense, teams tend to put their money into QB and passing game, and generally speaking it's a lot easier to find a decent (not fantastic, mind you) RB later than it is to find the same caliber of WR later.
in hindsight (SWIDT?), that decision would bite me in the rump. Would you take Justin Jefferson, or Etienne? How bout Chase or Barkley? Remember when we considered Etienne the consolation to missing out on Toney? Again, hindsight, we kinda dodged a bullet there.
I don't care what my needs are or what offense my team runs when 1 player is better than the other. The players aren't EQUAL, thats the whole point. They haven't been up to this point at least. When players are equal then sure your take everything into account and pick which guy is best for your team. You have showed over the years you are a needs drafter and i just hope we dont bring in a new GM that drafts that way. The Lions had Montgomery and drafted Gibbs, it was a great pick for the Lions even though they had bigger needs. Then they drafted a off the ball LB, TE, and S. They could have went with bigger needsat more important positions but they took their top guy. TE was a big need but S wasn't even that big of a need and it's a position most don't think is very important but they took the BPA and it was a great pick.
It's rare teams are so loaded that when it's their pick they couldn't use that position. I like the idea of taking great players at even lesser position or even if we have 1 really good player at the position and getring another one and making it a strength. I don't think G is one of the most important positions but if our GM thinks Will Campbell could be an All Pro G and he was the top guy on their board I'd be happy with taking him even picking in the top 5 and teams usually don't take guards in the top 5. Or if McMillan was their top guy and they think he will be an All Pro id be good with that as well even though I think we have bigger needs than WR.
(11-15-2024, 11:35 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-15-2024, 09:51 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]'stupid' was YOUR word, hence the quote.
What are my team's needs?
What type of offense do we run?
What does the rest of the darft look like for each position?
I don't evaluate in a vacuum. If EVERY. SINGLE. FACTOR. was equal (we need WR and RB, our offense suits their skillset equally well, both positions are deep in this class), I take the WR every time, especially based on how each performed leading up to the darft. The league favors passing offense, teams tend to put their money into QB and passing game, and generally speaking it's a lot easier to find a decent (not fantastic, mind you) RB later than it is to find the same caliber of WR later.
in hindsight (SWIDT?), that decision would bite me in the rump. Would you take Justin Jefferson, or Etienne? How bout Chase or Barkley? Remember when we considered Etienne the consolation to missing out on Toney? Again, hindsight, we kinda dodged a bullet there.
I don't care what my needs are or what offense my team runs when 1 player is better than the other. The players aren't EQUAL, thats the whole point. They haven't been up to this point at least. When players are equal then sure your take everything into account and pick which guy is best for your team. You have showed over the years you are a needs drafter and i just hope we dont bring in a new GM that drafts that way. The Lions had Montgomery and drafted Gibbs, it was a great pick for the Lions even though they had bigger needs. Then they drafted a off the ball LB, TE, and S. They could have went with bigger needsat more important positions but they took their top guy. TE was a big need but S wasn't even that big of a need and it's a position most don't think is very important but they took the BPA and it was a great pick.
It's rare teams are so loaded that when it's their pick they couldn't use that position. I like the idea of taking great players at even lesser position or even if we have 1 really good player at the position and getring another one and making it a strength. I don't think G is one of the most important positions but if our GM thinks Will Campbell could be an All Pro G and he was the top guy on their board I'd be happy with taking him even picking in the top 5 and teams usually don't take guards in the top 5. Or if McMillan was their top guy and they think he will be an All Pro id be good with that as well even though I think we have bigger needs than WR.
Getting back to the topic at hand, we're in the catbird seat for a top pick in this darft. You're right that complete and utter focus on need (not me, regardless of whether you think that) is going to limit one's ability to get value out of a darft. It's what doomed Dave Caldwell to unemployment - he emphasized filling holes way more than getting the better available talent. If you fail to hit or overlap talent with need with those picks, you're screwed and stuck having to continue to pick to address the same need while allowing others to benefit by taking the more talented guys you pass on. But on the same token, if you constantly defer to a board that completely ignores need, you risk leaving a team grossly understaffed at an already weak spot on the roster, but on the plus side you have the market cornered at that other position. It's all a gamble, an educated guess.
Just like you, I don't want a guy who's going to excessively weigh need at the cost of talent or value. But if that guy isn't considering need as part of the overall picture, we won't be criticizing his picks for long, if you get what I'm sayin'.
(11-15-2024, 09:30 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-14-2024, 04:18 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting articles today in the Athletic regarding the odds of teams picks 1st and who they should select. The Jaguars are rated 5th in the race to pick #1. Their chances are a slim 9%, however that is totally dependent on whether Lawrence returns this season. The Raiders are considered the favorite at 30 % and it's quite possible that they won't win another game. Of course, the Jaguars play both the Raiders and Titans at the end of the season and would be favored over each if Trevor returns. As I've said before, at this point the best long-term thing for the team would be to lose out enabling them to have the number 1 pick. Admittedly, it is terribly difficult to pull against the team you love- but winning a few more games this season would do nothing to help the team in 2025 and beyond.
Regarding the best choice for the pick, the writer (Nick Baumgardner) recommends the Jaguars select Travis Hunter. It is difficult to argue with that recommendation since I could envision Hunter playing corner opposite Campbell giving them one of the best duos in the NFL. Due to Hunter's unique talents, he could also be utilized as a receiver on critical passing downs. Imagine having to stop both him and Thomas with Engram as a 3rd option. The Jaguars might still have a shot at Hunter if they pick in the top 5. The only other team in the top 5 likely to take Hunter would be the Titans and the winner of their game on December 29 would likely determine which team has the higher pick. If the Jaguars do end up with the first pick, there's a good chance they'd get an offer from a quarterback needy team like the Giants, Raiders or Jets that would be to hard to pass up. This would enable them to get an additional number 1 pick next season (likely top 15) and still have the opportunity to draft a great player like Huner or Will Johnson in the first round.
The article also mentioned that the Jaguars would be the most desirable destination for a new coach and general manager due to having a potential elite quarterback in Lawrence.
What if we could fix the oline in FA and traded back a few spots and drafted Tetairoa McMillan? Could get a really good corner and safety in the 2nd. Could trade back up into the 2nd as well if needed. We would then just have to find our backup edge and hope Smith and Jefferson improve. I think Armstead and Hamilton will be a good starting DTs. Hamilton is playing his best football in years and finally looks healthy. A improved oline with McMillan opposite BTJ could be a dangerous set of outside WRs with Engram and a healthy Kirk in the slot. No teams have 2 corners that could match up with McMillan and BTJ, McMillan is 6'5 and exactly what Trev thrived with in college. I think McMillan will be on the top of the Pats board so if we want him we have to pick in front of the Pats.
In FA we re sign Walker Little if he finishes strong, a RG, and a veteran Edge.
McMillan and Thomas would be fun to watch. If the Jaguars were able to sign an interior lineman like Trey Smith (wishful thinking) and Little proves worthy of a new contract, your scenario would make some sense. No doubt it would make the offense very explosive. I do still have concerns about the defense, which has been horrible this season. However, I agree that Hamilton is much improved this season and Armstead can be effective when playing inside. The cornerback class actually looks quite deep and they could definitely find a quality player with their 2nd round pick to compete with Brown as a rookie and eventually become a starter. The safeties have been a huge disappointment this season, especially Cisco and Antonio Johnson. Cisco is likely to be gone in free agency so this position needs to be addressed.
My top choice would still be Hunter, but McMillan would be a tantalizing option in the scenario you present. Of course, a new head coach and General Manager are necessary regardless of who eventually is drafted first.
(11-15-2024, 02:01 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (11-15-2024, 11:35 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I don't care what my needs are or what offense my team runs when 1 player is better than the other. The players aren't EQUAL, thats the whole point. They haven't been up to this point at least. When players are equal then sure your take everything into account and pick which guy is best for your team. You have showed over the years you are a needs drafter and i just hope we dont bring in a new GM that drafts that way. The Lions had Montgomery and drafted Gibbs, it was a great pick for the Lions even though they had bigger needs. Then they drafted a off the ball LB, TE, and S. They could have went with bigger needsat more important positions but they took their top guy. TE was a big need but S wasn't even that big of a need and it's a position most don't think is very important but they took the BPA and it was a great pick.
It's rare teams are so loaded that when it's their pick they couldn't use that position. I like the idea of taking great players at even lesser position or even if we have 1 really good player at the position and getring another one and making it a strength. I don't think G is one of the most important positions but if our GM thinks Will Campbell could be an All Pro G and he was the top guy on their board I'd be happy with taking him even picking in the top 5 and teams usually don't take guards in the top 5. Or if McMillan was their top guy and they think he will be an All Pro id be good with that as well even though I think we have bigger needs than WR.
Getting back to the topic at hand, we're in the catbird seat for a top pick in this darft. You're right that complete and utter focus on need (not me, regardless of whether you think that) is going to limit one's ability to get value out of a darft. It's what doomed Dave Caldwell to unemployment - he emphasized filling holes way more than getting the better available talent. If you fail to hit or overlap talent with need with those picks, you're screwed and stuck having to continue to pick to address the same need while allowing others to benefit by taking the more talented guys you pass on. But on the same token, if you constantly defer to a board that completely ignores need, you risk leaving a team grossly understaffed at an already weak spot on the roster, but on the plus side you have the market cornered at that other position. It's all a gamble, an educated guess.
Just like you, I don't want a guy who's going to excessively weigh need at the cost of talent or value. But if that guy isn't considering need as part of the overall picture, we won't be criticizing his picks for long, if you get what I'm sayin'.
Thats what FA is for. All teams have needs, Even like us, we have Allen and Walker, 2 of the better edge players in the league but edge is still a huge need for us. You have to have more than 2 edge players in this league, its a must and we have just been on a lucky streak with Allen and Walker not getting injured the last few years. We are testing our luck in that regard and I think adding another edge is a must this year and id say its one of our biggest needs even though whoever we bring in wont start. If Allen or Walker go down, you think our D is bad now we would likely set another record of suckage in some regard with a record bad D. Needs will get filled if you stick to your board though sooner or later along with FA. With how many picks we have trading up or back is always an option as well
Sitting at the number 1 pick once again in December
The Raiders game tonight will depend on if we are 4th or 5th. If we lose out I think we pass the Pats because of SOS. We will likely pass the Panthers as well because of SOS. The Panthers and Pats i think are the 2 teams that will take Hunter. I think the Giants and Raiders take Sanders and Ward.
(12-16-2024, 09:45 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]The Raiders game tonight will depend on if we are 4th or 5th. If we lose out I think we pass the Pats because of SOS. We will likely pass the Panthers as well because of SOS. The Panthers and Pats i think are the 2 teams that will take Hunter. I think the Giants and Raiders take Sanders and Ward.
No doubt, the best end of year scenario for the Jaguars would be to lose out. That would LIKELY guarantee the departures of both Pederson and Baalke, although one never can say for sure when Shad Khan is calling the shots. The most likely win for the Jags would be next week against the Raiders. If they do win that game, their draft spot would likely be 4 or 5.
As you indicated, the Giants and Raiders will both select quarterbacks with Hunter likely going in the 3rd spot to whichever team is fortunate enough to get the best player in this class. If the Jaguars are not that team, I would expect them to select a cornerback unless they are having 2nd thoughts about Walker Little following his leaving yesterday's game due to another injury. My top choice with Hunter out would clearly be Will Johnson. He plays a prime position which is clearly a team need for the Jaguars. Despite his current injury, his talents are indisputable and there's a good chance he eventually becomes a true shut-down corner. Adding him, a couple of offensive linemen and a nose tackle would be a very productive off-season.
(12-16-2024, 04:17 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-16-2024, 09:45 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]The Raiders game tonight will depend on if we are 4th or 5th. If we lose out I think we pass the Pats because of SOS. We will likely pass the Panthers as well because of SOS. The Panthers and Pats i think are the 2 teams that will take Hunter. I think the Giants and Raiders take Sanders and Ward.
No doubt, the best end of year scenario for the Jaguars would be to lose out. That would LIKELY guarantee the departures of both Pederson and Baalke, although one never can say for sure when Shad Khan is calling the shots. The most likely win for the Jags would be next week against the Raiders. If they do win that game, their draft spot would likely be 4 or 5.
As you indicated, the Giants and Raiders will both select quarterbacks with Hunter likely going in the 3rd spot to whichever team is fortunate enough to get the best player in this class. If the Jaguars are not that team, I would expect them to select a cornerback unless they are having 2nd thoughts about Walker Little following his leaving yesterday's game due to another injury. My top choice with Hunter out would clearly be Will Johnson. He plays a prime position which is clearly a team need for the Jaguars. Despite his current injury, his talents are indisputable and there's a good chance he eventually becomes a true shut-down corner. Adding him, a couple of offensive linemen and a nose tackle would be a very productive off-season.
Little came back yesterday and played great. I think the new GM would be more concerned with Harrison tbh. Harrison has really struggled at times this year. But yeah, if we don't get Hunter i want Johnson or Graham.
(12-17-2024, 03:32 AM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]Given need and draft value I hope the Jags address CB in the first two rounds. The other pick being an OL of course. All but Reed and Durant were drafted in 1st two rounds and Durant is a Nickle
https://twitter.com/RealmRavens/status/1...4606205056
That's odd because pff has him as the 93rd rated corner and the Ravens pass D has been horrendous, they are 31st in pass D and the only team wose in pass D is ours and Humphrey has been very good as always. When I watched the few Ravens games this year he got picked on a bit.
We are picking 4th right now with 3 games left
(12-17-2024, 08:37 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2024, 03:32 AM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]Given need and draft value I hope the Jags address CB in the first two rounds. The other pick being an OL of course. All but Reed and Durant were drafted in 1st two rounds and Durant is a Nickle
https://twitter.com/RealmRavens/status/1...4606205056
That's odd because pff has him as the 93rd rated corner and the Ravens pass D has been horrendous, they are 31st in pass D and the only team wose in pass D is ours and Humphrey has been very good as always. When I watched the few Ravens games this year he got picked on a bit.
We are picking 4th right now with 3 games left
Can't speak to PFF. It's not really odd in terms of catches/yards/targets/TDs given up which are the stats that matter the most for a CB not whatever PFF grade they assign. The Ravens pass defense has been bad namely because the opposite CB - Brandon Stephens - gets picked on and has been absolutely atrocious along with their Safeties not named Hamilton and the LBs.
He's been excellent for a rookie CB and one of the youngest players in the NFL. Just scratching the surface he's a superstar
(12-17-2024, 02:01 PM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2024, 08:37 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]That's odd because pff has him as the 93rd rated corner and the Ravens pass D has been horrendous, they are 31st in pass D and the only team wose in pass D is ours and Humphrey has been very good as always. When I watched the few Ravens games this year he got picked on a bit.
We are picking 4th right now with 3 games left
Can't speak to PFF. It's not really odd in terms of catches/yards/targets/TDs given up which are the stats that matter the most for a CB not whatever PFF grade they assign. The Ravens pass defense has been bad namely because the opposite CB - Brandon Stephens - gets picked on and has been absolutely atrocious along with their Safeties not named Hamilton and the LBs.
He's been excellent for a rookie CB and one of the youngest players in the NFL. Just scratching the surface he's a superstar
He has a 70.2 passer rating allowed, that's 165th and zero INTs. Not excellent by any stretch. You would hope your 1st round corner would get atleast 1 pick.
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/nate-wig...tatsWidget
(12-17-2024, 04:12 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2024, 02:01 PM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]Can't speak to PFF. It's not really odd in terms of catches/yards/targets/TDs given up which are the stats that matter the most for a CB not whatever PFF grade they assign. The Ravens pass defense has been bad namely because the opposite CB - Brandon Stephens - gets picked on and has been absolutely atrocious along with their Safeties not named Hamilton and the LBs.
He's been excellent for a rookie CB and one of the youngest players in the NFL. Just scratching the surface he's a superstar
He has a 70.2 passer rating allowed, that's 165th and zero INTs. Not excellent by any stretch. You would hope your 1st round corner would get atleast 1 pick.
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/nate-wig...tatsWidget
IIRC you said he wasn't even a top 5 CB for the last draft correct?
Through week 11 he ranked 6th among all CBs in the NFL terms of yards given up with a min of 25 targets. I can't find updated through now. What would you call that along with the lowest pass completion percentage in the entire NFL?
https://twitter.com/The33rdTeamFB/status...9251545227
(12-17-2024, 06:06 PM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2024, 04:12 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]He has a 70.2 passer rating allowed, that's 165th and zero INTs. Not excellent by any stretch. You would hope your 1st round corner would get atleast 1 pick.
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/nate-wig...tatsWidget
IIRC you said he wasn't even a top 5 CB for the last draft correct?
Through week 11 he ranked 6th among all CBs in the NFL terms of yards given up with a min of 25 targets. I can't find updated through now. What would you call that along with the lowest pass completion percentage in the entire NFL?
https://twitter.com/The33rdTeamFB/status...9251545227
Mitchell and DeJean were my top 2. They have been the 2 best rookie corners. They have changed that Eagles defense from one of the worst last year to the best this year. I wanted both but I'm glad we got BTJ. I wish Baalke would have traded up for DeJean but JJ has been damn good for a late 3rd. JJ is actually graded higher than Wiggins.
(12-17-2024, 08:51 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2024, 06:06 PM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]IIRC you said he wasn't even a top 5 CB for the last draft correct?
Through week 11 he ranked 6th among all CBs in the NFL terms of yards given up with a min of 25 targets. I can't find updated through now. What would you call that along with the lowest pass completion percentage in the entire NFL?
https://twitter.com/The33rdTeamFB/status...9251545227
Mitchell and DeJean were my top 2. They have been the 2 best rookie corners. They have changed that Eagles defense from one of the worst last year to the best this year. I wanted both but I'm glad we got BTJ. I wish Baalke would have traded up for DeJean but JJ has been damn good for a late 3rd. JJ is actually graded higher than Wiggins.
You said he wasn't top 5. I wouldn't get too caught up in being proved right for every prospect opinion you have. You probably had no clue he was 2 years ago at this time. It's not a sin to wrong, I'll be wrong on a lot of guys as well.
Among the lowest yards in the NFL and the lowest completion percentage in the entire NFL is in fact fantastic. Mitchell nor Cooper have an INT either so by your own logic I guess they are not excellent CBs as well? He's got a better passer rating than both of those guys. According to your PFF rank (which I don't put value in) Nate is also one of the best run defenders in the NFL for a CB and better than both. He's certainly given up less receptions both. He hasn't given up a TD either. He's a future All Pro and leader for best CB last class as of today by the most important metrics.
(12-17-2024, 09:21 PM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2024, 08:51 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Mitchell and DeJean were my top 2. They have been the 2 best rookie corners. They have changed that Eagles defense from one of the worst last year to the best this year. I wanted both but I'm glad we got BTJ. I wish Baalke would have traded up for DeJean but JJ has been damn good for a late 3rd. JJ is actually graded higher than Wiggins.
You said he wasn't top 5. I wouldn't get too caught up in being proved right for every prospect opinion you have. You probably had no clue he was 2 years ago at this time. It's not a sin to wrong, I'll be wrong on a lot of guys as well.
Among the lowest yards in the NFL and the lowest completion percentage in the entire NFL is in fact fantastic. Mitchell nor Cooper have an INT either so by your own logic I guess they are not excellent CBs as well? He's got a better passer rating than both of those guys. According to your PFF rank (which I don't put value in) Nate is also one of the best run defenders in the NFL for a CB and better than both. He's certainly given up less receptions both. He hasn't given up a TD either. He's a future All Pro and leader for best CB last class as of today by the most important metrics.
The reason I didn't want him is because of his size and his interviews, that's why I didn't have him in my top 5. I never said he couldn't cover. He hasn't even made it a year yet so we will see how his body holds up. So It remains to be seen if I was wrong on that or not yet. I mean Mitchell is the 24th rated corner, DeJean is the 8th rated corner, Jarian Jones is the 70th rated corner, and Wiggins is the 79th rated corner. Don't shoot the messenger.
(12-17-2024, 11:20 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2024, 09:21 PM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]You said he wasn't top 5. I wouldn't get too caught up in being proved right for every prospect opinion you have. You probably had no clue he was 2 years ago at this time. It's not a sin to wrong, I'll be wrong on a lot of guys as well.
Among the lowest yards in the NFL and the lowest completion percentage in the entire NFL is in fact fantastic. Mitchell nor Cooper have an INT either so by your own logic I guess they are not excellent CBs as well? He's got a better passer rating than both of those guys. According to your PFF rank (which I don't put value in) Nate is also one of the best run defenders in the NFL for a CB and better than both. He's certainly given up less receptions both. He hasn't given up a TD either. He's a future All Pro and leader for best CB last class as of today by the most important metrics.
The reason I didn't want him is because of his size and his interviews, that's why I didn't have him in my top 5. I never said he couldn't cover. He hasn't even made it a year yet so we will see how his body holds up. So It remains to be seen if I was wrong on that or not yet. I mean Mitchell is the 24th rated corner, DeJean is the 8th rated corner, Jarian Jones is the 70th rated corner, and Wiggins is the 79th rated corner. Don't shoot the messenger.
I have no problem with you preferring others in the draft process. It's a message board for everyone to have different positions and would be quite boring if they were all of the same. The fault is where you claimed he wasn't exceptional and by any notable metric that's simply not true. By your own metrics chosen to prove this (Passer Rating/INTs) he's better or equal to the others you claim are better. The logic doesn't track here for your argument. You might not be wrong over time - anything can happen, but you are objectively wrong on "Not excellent by any stretch" and I would wager that's only based on you wanting your original opinion on him to be right and not data/games as that says otherwise.
No big deal the point of my OP was I hoped the Jags invested early as the good ones tend to be chosen early. The exceptional CBs (Wiggins/Cooper/Mitchell) prove this IMO
(12-18-2024, 01:21 AM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2024, 11:20 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]The reason I didn't want him is because of his size and his interviews, that's why I didn't have him in my top 5. I never said he couldn't cover. He hasn't even made it a year yet so we will see how his body holds up. So It remains to be seen if I was wrong on that or not yet. I mean Mitchell is the 24th rated corner, DeJean is the 8th rated corner, Jarian Jones is the 70th rated corner, and Wiggins is the 79th rated corner. Don't shoot the messenger.
I have no problem with you preferring others in the draft process. It's a message board for everyone to have different positions and would be quite boring if they were all of the same. The fault is where you claimed he wasn't exceptional and by any notable metric that's simply not true. By your own metrics chosen to prove this (Passer Rating/INTs) he's better or equal to the others you claim are better. The logic doesn't track here for your argument. You might not be wrong over time - anything can happen, but you are objectively wrong on "Not excellent by any stretch" and I would wager that's only based on you wanting your original opinion on him to be right and not data/games as that says otherwise.
No big deal the point of my OP was I hoped the Jags invested early as the good ones tend to be chosen early. The exceptional CBs (Wiggins/Cooper/Mitchell) prove this IMO
Yeah, I had 2 corners at the top of my board as you had one at the top of yours. Although BTJ was on my short list of guys I wanted us to get who I felt would be there. I'm also glad we got BTJ instead of Mitchell and DeJean though even though both look great. You still wish we drafted Wiggins instead of BTJ? Have to give Trevor BTJ, that's more important than any corner right now. As much as I liked Mitchell and DeJean i think Hunter and Will Johnson if healthy are a better prospects. Do you think Wiggins and is a better corner prospect than Johnson or Hunter?