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(12-18-2024, 07:00 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2024, 01:21 AM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]I have no problem with you preferring others in the draft process. It's a message board for everyone to have different positions and would be quite boring if they were all of the same. The fault is where you claimed he wasn't exceptional and by any notable metric that's simply not true. By your own metrics chosen to prove this (Passer Rating/INTs) he's better or equal to the others you claim are better. The logic doesn't track here for your argument. You might not be wrong over time - anything can happen, but you are objectively wrong on "Not excellent by any stretch" and I would wager that's only based on you wanting your original opinion on him to be right and not data/games as that says otherwise.
No big deal the point of my OP was I hoped the Jags invested early as the good ones tend to be chosen early. The exceptional CBs (Wiggins/Cooper/Mitchell) prove this IMO
Yeah, I had 2 corners at the top of my board as you had one at the top of yours. Although BTJ was on my short list of guys I wanted us to get who I felt would be there. I'm also glad we got BTJ instead of Mitchell and DeJean though even though both look great. You still wish we drafted Wiggins instead of BTJ? Have to give Trevor BTJ, that's more important than any corner right now. As much as I liked Mitchell and DeJean i think Hunter and Will Johnson if healthy are a better prospects. Do you think Wiggins and is a better corner prospect than Johnson or Hunter?
I love the BTJ addition vs a CB. Glad it worked out the way it did in the 1st round that guy is a stud.
I don't think he's a better prospect than Hunter. I do think he's slightly better than Johnson. Comparing traits, I would give the edge to Wiggins in terms of speed and more importantly better change of direction. His ability to mirror WRs is superior IMO. Johnson has a better frame and ball skills. Wiggins closet RAS comps coming out were Champ Bailey and DRC and in terms of speed/fluidness at 6'1 1/2 you can count on one hand how many are in that elite tier of speed and fluidness at 6/1 1/2.
Johnson certainly has traits that are superior to Wiggins in different areas I realize my opinion will be in the minority but Wiggins couple of traits he's elite at are about as good as it gets. That's how he has the best completion percentage in the entire NFL while being the youngest CB in the NFL and not having much experience playing the position relatively. Time will tell of course on Hunter/Johnson vs Nate. I hope the Jags get Travis Hunter
(12-18-2024, 04:08 PM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2024, 07:00 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I had 2 corners at the top of my board as you had one at the top of yours. Although BTJ was on my short list of guys I wanted us to get who I felt would be there. I'm also glad we got BTJ instead of Mitchell and DeJean though even though both look great. You still wish we drafted Wiggins instead of BTJ? Have to give Trevor BTJ, that's more important than any corner right now. As much as I liked Mitchell and DeJean i think Hunter and Will Johnson if healthy are a better prospects. Do you think Wiggins and is a better corner prospect than Johnson or Hunter?
I love the BTJ addition vs a CB. Glad it worked out the way it did in the 1st round that guy is a stud.
I don't think he's a better prospect than Hunter. I do think he's slightly better than Johnson. Comparing traits, I would give the edge to Wiggins in terms of speed and more importantly better change of direction. His ability to mirror WRs is superior IMO. Johnson has a better frame and ball skills. Wiggins closet RAS comps coming out were Champ Bailey and DRC and in terms of speed/fluidness at 6'1 1/2 you can count on one hand how many are in that elite tier of speed and fluidness at 6/1 1/2.
Johnson certainly has traits that are superior to Wiggins in different areas I realize my opinion will be in the minority but Wiggins couple of traits he's elite at are about as good as it gets. That's how he has the best completion percentage in the entire NFL while being the youngest CB in the NFL and not having much experience playing the position relatively. Time will tell of course on Hunter/Johnson vs Nate. I hope the Jags get Travis Hunter
Damn man you really are a Homer and I was pretty high on DeJean and Mitchell lol. Johnson was a better corner last year than Hunter but now the injury. If Johnson is healthy coming into the combine he will be an elite CB prospect. Johnson was a huge reason Michigan won a Natty. His ability to mirror the WR is one of his strengths. He is a very fliud corner with good hips, a good athlete, and prototipical size for a corner.
(12-18-2024, 04:35 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2024, 04:08 PM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]I love the BTJ addition vs a CB. Glad it worked out the way it did in the 1st round that guy is a stud.
I don't think he's a better prospect than Hunter. I do think he's slightly better than Johnson. Comparing traits, I would give the edge to Wiggins in terms of speed and more importantly better change of direction. His ability to mirror WRs is superior IMO. Johnson has a better frame and ball skills. Wiggins closet RAS comps coming out were Champ Bailey and DRC and in terms of speed/fluidness at 6'1 1/2 you can count on one hand how many are in that elite tier of speed and fluidness at 6/1 1/2.
Johnson certainly has traits that are superior to Wiggins in different areas I realize my opinion will be in the minority but Wiggins couple of traits he's elite at are about as good as it gets. That's how he has the best completion percentage in the entire NFL while being the youngest CB in the NFL and not having much experience playing the position relatively. Time will tell of course on Hunter/Johnson vs Nate. I hope the Jags get Travis Hunter
Damn man you really are a Homer and I was pretty high on DeJean and Mitchell lol. Johnson was a better corner last year than Hunter but now the injury. If Johnson is healthy coming into the combine he will be an elite CB prospect. Johnson was a huge reason Michigan won a Natty. His ability to mirror the WR is one of his strengths. He is a very fliud corner with good hips, a good athlete, and prototipical size for a corner.
No doubt he's a stud and he's elite but he's not as fluid and nor as good of hips as Wiggins not to mention short area and recovery speed. Wiggins click and close ability is elite as it gets as noted by some draft analysts last year. I would argue for a CB in man coverage these traits are the most important. You could argue he's more well rounded and it would be a good one and that maybe the sum of parts makes him a better prospect but in terms of those traits Wiggins is second to none. Guilty as charged being a homer no qualms there but doesn't really matter as what I'm saying is true as for the discussion.
(12-18-2024, 04:35 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2024, 04:08 PM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]I love the BTJ addition vs a CB. Glad it worked out the way it did in the 1st round that guy is a stud.
I don't think he's a better prospect than Hunter. I do think he's slightly better than Johnson. Comparing traits, I would give the edge to Wiggins in terms of speed and more importantly better change of direction. His ability to mirror WRs is superior IMO. Johnson has a better frame and ball skills. Wiggins closet RAS comps coming out were Champ Bailey and DRC and in terms of speed/fluidness at 6'1 1/2 you can count on one hand how many are in that elite tier of speed and fluidness at 6/1 1/2.
Johnson certainly has traits that are superior to Wiggins in different areas I realize my opinion will be in the minority but Wiggins couple of traits he's elite at are about as good as it gets. That's how he has the best completion percentage in the entire NFL while being the youngest CB in the NFL and not having much experience playing the position relatively. Time will tell of course on Hunter/Johnson vs Nate. I hope the Jags get Travis Hunter
Damn man you really are a Homer and I was pretty high on DeJean and Mitchell lol. Johnson was a better corner last year than Hunter but now the injury. If Johnson is healthy coming into the combine he will be an elite CB prospect. Johnson was a huge reason Michigan won a Natty. His ability to mirror the WR is one of his strengths. He is a very fliud corner with good hips, a good athlete, and prototipical size for a corner.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Pot. Meet Kettle.
(12-18-2024, 04:35 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2024, 04:08 PM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]I love the BTJ addition vs a CB. Glad it worked out the way it did in the 1st round that guy is a stud.
I don't think he's a better prospect than Hunter. I do think he's slightly better than Johnson. Comparing traits, I would give the edge to Wiggins in terms of speed and more importantly better change of direction. His ability to mirror WRs is superior IMO. Johnson has a better frame and ball skills. Wiggins closet RAS comps coming out were Champ Bailey and DRC and in terms of speed/fluidness at 6'1 1/2 you can count on one hand how many are in that elite tier of speed and fluidness at 6/1 1/2.
Johnson certainly has traits that are superior to Wiggins in different areas I realize my opinion will be in the minority but Wiggins couple of traits he's elite at are about as good as it gets. That's how he has the best completion percentage in the entire NFL while being the youngest CB in the NFL and not having much experience playing the position relatively. Time will tell of course on Hunter/Johnson vs Nate. I hope the Jags get Travis Hunter
Damn man you really are a Homer and I was pretty high on DeJean and Mitchell lol. Johnson was a better corner last year than Hunter but now the injury. If Johnson is healthy coming into the combine he will be an elite CB prospect. Johnson was a huge reason Michigan won a Natty. His ability to mirror the WR is one of his strengths. He is a very fliud corner with good hips, a good athlete, and prototipical size for a corner.
there's the million-dollar question. He missed so much of this year that I'm afraid of taking him in the top five and this be a pattern.
I don't like what I've heard from Hunter, either. Sounds like he will be a distraction if you focus him just on coverage, I don't want another Ramsey.
Picking 3rd with 2 games left.
Could really do with the Patriots winning a game
(12-22-2024, 09:01 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Picking 3rd with 2 games left.
Who cares? The best teams pick last. The worst teams pick first. Somehow, the best teams stay the best and the worst teams stay the worst. It doesn't matter where we pick in the draft. We suck. That's all that matters. Picking first won't fix that.
(12-23-2024, 08:14 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (12-22-2024, 09:01 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Picking 3rd with 2 games left.
Who cares? The best teams pick last. The worst teams pick first. Somehow, the best teams stay the best and the worst teams stay the worst. It doesn't matter where we pick in the draft. We suck. That's all that matters. Picking first won't fix that.
If we get the right GM it wont really matter where we pick but this is the only thing Jags fans have to look forward to. It might mean something if we are able to get a real GM and we draft Travis Hunter, Will Johnson, or Graham and they are future HOF'ers. We dont nee the first pick if we get the right GM. We can pick 5th and get a very good blue chip player that could help us go on a playoff run next year. Every GM dont take guys that takes 2 years to develop. We will have a new GM and we will be picking top 10 even if we win the next 2 but I think we all know we wont win 2 games in a row with this staff.
The strength of schedule is closing in on the Pats with them playing better teams than us. If we lose today it will be interesting to see how much that gap closes. It got much closer yesterday and will get even closer today. Next week they got the Bills and we have the Colts.
https://www.tankathon.com/nfl
Right now we're at number 5, so prime position to pick either Mason Graham or Will Johnson. What would really suck is if we win next week and drop down to about 10, when both of those players are gone.
(12-29-2024, 10:03 PM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]Right now we're at number 5, so prime position to pick either Mason Graham or Will Johnson. What would really suck is if we win next week and drop down to about 10, when both of those players are gone.
Yup, picking at 5 with 1 game left. If we win next week i think we look at offense. Will Campbell, McMillan, Jeanty etc. Either way we will get a stud.
(12-29-2024, 10:03 PM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]Right now we're at number 5, so prime position to pick either Mason Graham or Will Johnson. What would really suck is if we win next week and drop down to about 10, when both of those players are gone.
I don’t care what pick the Jags get. They got BTJ at 23.
They need a full reset of HC and GM. If they hire the right guys, the Jags will have a very very quick turnaround and win the division.
Pick 1 or 2 would have been really nice for a potential trade down for a QB needy team which would have set this team up with loads of top end picks. That’s basically gone, so the pick really doesn’t matter to me, plenty of top talent to choose from.
I have really no idea if Anton could move inside to play guard, but if he can (takes Scherff spot) I wouldn’t be opposed to the top tackle prospect either. Graham would make a pretty solid D LINE with Walker, Allen, and smith. Johnson across Campbell sounds great. Tet with BTJ sounds scary and very complimentary, I’d like to see what Tets 40 is though. Jeanty would be controversial for this board for sure after drafting 4net and ETN in first round recently, but Jeanty is unreal. Loads more options too.
I really want either Hunter, Graham or Johnson. I feel that there's a big drop-off after that point in terms of value, positional value and the Jaguar's needs. Hopefully, two quarterbacks go ahead of us or a team will draft some other player. We might still get one, but it's iffy. It would have been nice if we lost today. We would be in the second draft position and would have had a decent chance of finishing in the top spot even if the Patriots lose next week. Currently, the Patriots are only winning the tie-breaker because their strength of schedule is .003 worse than the Jaguars. That could easily have changed in a week. Today's win might have cost us the #1 pick in the draft. Sigh. If we win again next week, we could drop all the way down to #9. Double sigh.
(12-30-2024, 12:11 AM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I really want either Hunter, Graham or Johnson. I feel that there's a big drop-off after that point in terms of value, positional value and the Jaguar's needs. Hopefully, two quarterbacks go ahead of us or a team will draft some other player. We might still get one, but it's iffy. It would have been nice if we lost today. We would be in the second draft position and would have had a decent chance of finishing in the top spot even if the Patriots lose next week. Currently, the Patriots are only winning the tie-breaker because their strength of schedule is .003 worse than the Jaguars. That could easily have changed in a week. Today's win might have cost us the #1 pick in the draft. Sigh. If we win again next week, we could drop all the way down to #9. Double sigh.
The win was because of BTJ going off again. Jordan Jefferson getting the tipped ball at the line to cause the pick, Maason Smith getting another sack, Jarian Jones looking good again etc. When your young players improve, thats what leads to wins. Ill take that any day over being the first team in NFL history picking 1st overall 3 times in 5 years. You want to continue to add to the record of suckage lol. If we lose we get a higher draft pick, cool. If we win our young guys are likely improving like we seen today and can still get a stud in the draft.
If the Jags can win next week, they may actually be able to jump out of the top 10!! Depends on SOS with the Saints.
(12-30-2024, 12:26 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2024, 12:11 AM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I really want either Hunter, Graham or Johnson. I feel that there's a big drop-off after that point in terms of value, positional value and the Jaguar's needs. Hopefully, two quarterbacks go ahead of us or a team will draft some other player. We might still get one, but it's iffy. It would have been nice if we lost today. We would be in the second draft position and would have had a decent chance of finishing in the top spot even if the Patriots lose next week. Currently, the Patriots are only winning the tie-breaker because their strength of schedule is .003 worse than the Jaguars. That could easily have changed in a week. Today's win might have cost us the #1 pick in the draft. Sigh. If we win again next week, we could drop all the way down to #9. Double sigh.
The win was because of BTJ going off again. Jordan Jefferson getting the tipped ball at the line to cause the pick, Maason Smith getting another sack, Jarian Jones looking good again etc. When your young players improve, thats what leads to wins. Ill take that any day over being the first team in NFL history picking 1st overall 3 times in 5 years. You want to continue to add to the record of suckage lol. If we lose we get a higher draft pick, cool. If we win our young guys are likely improving like we seen today and can still get a stud in the draft.
I stated that I wanted our rookies and young players to play well but still lose a close game because of players who will no longer be on the team next year. If mistakes are made by players who won't be on our roster next year, it doesn't hurt us in 2025. Heck, 1 or 2 plays today could have been the difference between winning and losing. Put some backups in the game today for a few snaps and we get the #1 or #2 draft pick next year which increases our chances of winning in 2025. Some people are so short sighted.
(12-30-2024, 01:11 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]If the Jags can win next week, they may actually be able to jump out of the top 10!! Depends on SOS with the Saints.
I don't believe that's true.
First, even if the Jaguars dropped below the Saints, we would still be #10. To drop out of the top 10, we would have to fall behind San Francisco, but that's impossible since they have 2 more wins and there's only 1 game remaining.
Second, I'm not sure we can drop below the Saints. Have you done the math? Our SOS is .472 while theirs is .507. I don't think the SOS could change that much in one week.
(12-30-2024, 02:10 AM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2024, 01:11 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]If the Jags can win next week, they may actually be able to jump out of the top 10!! Depends on SOS with the Saints.
I don't believe that's true.
First, even if the Jaguars dropped below the Saints, we would still be #10. To drop out of the top 10, we would have to fall behind San Francisco, but that's impossible since they have 2 more wins and there's only 1 game remaining.
Second, I'm not sure we can drop below the Saints. Have you done the math? Our SOS is .472 while theirs is .507. I don't think the SOS could change that much in one week.
You're correct it would be rise to at least 9. The SOS math is probably already correct. a change of 0.30 seems pretty high especially.
But rising to #9 would be really great too. Better to be only the 9th worst team rather than the 5th worst team.
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