Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

I’d rather play one game a year in Orlando than London

(10-07-2024, 10:53 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]I’d rather play one game a year in Orlando than London

Exactly. The Jags are more likely to develop more fans in Orlando than in London. Even if a few people in London become Jags fan, they will switch whenever London gets their own NFL team.

I could care less about the actual Jags team. I'm a Lions fan. But I do get tired of being force fed the Jags on Channel 6 when there are better games on. Not when there are very few Jags fans in the area.

I honestly don't care if the Jags come or not. In fact I would prefer the Jags not come. They will cause more congestion in Downtown Orlando (I go to the Farmer's Market at Lake Eola sometimes on Sundays) and really not bring much economic impact. These NFL owners, Khan included, take advantage of every situation.

I just want to make sure that if the Jags want to come to Orlando, that the city isn't taken advantage of. If all the Jags offer is some minor stadium improvements, to me it's not worth the trouble. That's just the Jags taking advantage of you with little in return. I'd rather tell the Jags to stick it and not have the games than only get the Jags to make moderate stadium improvements and nothing else.

In the very least I would make the Jags play a preseason game in Orlando every year or every other year. But Orlando needs to get the most they can get from Khan and if Khan refuses, tell him to pound sand and let the Jags play in Gainesville.

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(10-07-2024, 10:27 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2024, 09:53 PM)83Austin83 Wrote: [ -> ]You do realize that Orlando is the third most popular U.S. city for tourism behind NYC and Vegas right? Maybe tied with Miami for third (even though the Orlando International Airport is now the busiest airport in Florida, bypassing Miami International Airport several years ago). Orlando doesn't need the exposure. Orlando is far more known outside of Florida than Jacksonville, that is for sure.

Out of those 50-60k visitors for probably seven regular season games (assuming one regular season game in London as usual for the Jags), how many will just be Jags fans from Jacksonville and North Florida that will drive in the day of the game, tailgate for a few hours, go to the game and then immediately leave? Those are fans that will spend little to no money in the local economy and actually are a net drain on the local economy due having to staff the stadium and having police/emergency personnel for medical emergencies, traffic and security. 

It's the same reason that most of the time, the major bowl games in Orlando do not want the Gators or Seminoles and prefer out of state teams. Gator or Seminole fans drive in the day of the game, park, go to the game, and then leave. Outside of maybe filling up the gas tank getting out of town and paying for parking, they offer next to no economic benefit for the city. 

But please, tell me how it will be an economic boom for the city when most people attending will be Jags fans from Jacksonville and North Florida. Fans that won't be staying in Orlando hotels, that won't be going to Orlando restaurants and bars and would probably do nothing else than maybe go to the theme parks if they come a day early. 

Orlando can get far more lucrative events. You all way overvalue what you are. The Jags are one of the smallest and worst organizations in the NFL. You all are here acting like you're the Chiefs, Cowboys, Steelers or Packers. If you were one of those teams, or even a far amount of other NFL teams, then your argument would hold water. Orlando is essentially doing the Jags a huge favor if they allow the Jags to play the 2027 season in Jacksonville and get nothing out of it other than some stadium improvements. The Jags would be getting a steal of a deal over Orlando which I don't want to see happen.

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LOL

Sorry you are disillusioned about the way a city's board of tourism views an influx of 50K+ visitors 6 or 7 times a year.

I work closely with a tourism board in another county in FL concerning bringing visitors to the county via events. 

There is MUCH money to be made. And they value it immensely. 

That stadium sits dormant for a disturbingly long portion of the year and anyone with a brain would view this as an amazing opportunity to both improve it and utilize its wasted potential. 

The Jags coming to Orlando for a season would be a gift. 

You can make up a bunch of phony stipulations the city might impose should they have this imaginary leverage all you'd like. But its nonsense. 

Orlando would benefit from the money the Jags contribute to facility improvements and from the out of county FL -  and out-of-state visitors the games would draw. 

End of story.

While Camping World Stadium may sit a fair amount of the year, it's still utilized. Heck I was supposed to go to Feast on the 50 this weekend but that's been postponed due to the Hurricane. 

Heck Camping World Stadium will host EDC in November which has an economic impact of easily 3 Jags games.

(10-07-2024, 07:22 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]I sense some emotional attachment to your argument.

It's a guy defending Orlando. I know it's the internet, but you have to read his words with a heavy lisp and a "yhacksonbille yhaguards" accent in your mind. Clearer now? He doesn't understand the appeal of the NFL playing in Orlando to because he doesn't understand football to begin with. He doesn't want anything overshadowing the rainbow warriors of the city beautiful in that trash league.

(10-07-2024, 09:05 PM)83Austin83 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2024, 12:37 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I agree.  Orlando has minimal leverage.  Getting the Jaguar games would be a big economic benefit to Orlando plus great exposure for both the city and the stadium.  If Orlando doesn't get the games, they get nothing.  How much can they really bluff?  Besides, I don't think it will take much arm twisting to have Orlando make renovations as most of those renovations would remain and benefit Orlando going forward.  They are already making renovations without even knowing if the Jaguars will go there.  The Jaguars are the ones with the better leverage because they have the option of Gainesville which is both closer to Jacksonville and has a larger stadium.  The Jaguars will likely play the two cities off each other to get the best deal.  

I do think Khan will ultimately select Orlando in hopes of expanding the fan base, but the idea that they are going to get on their knees and beg Orlando is ridiculous.  If Orlando gets too greedy, they just go to Gainesville.  Orlando knows this, so they'll likely make a very attractive offer.

Khan is a fool if he thinks playing one season in Orlando will suddenly make a lot of people in Orlando support the Jags. Heck most here in Orlando dislike the Jags.

Orlando doesn't really need the Jags. There are plenty of events and conventions that come to the city. The impact of 8 home games in Orlando economically is very little for Orlando. 

Like you said, if Orlando doesn't get the games, they get nothing. That's what Orlando gets now, so the city would lose nothing. You are right that Camping World Stadium is already getting renovations, but with the amount that Khan and the Jags would require, they would have to pay for a lot of it.

Orlando still has a lot of leverage. At the end of the day it's the Jags who don't have a home for an entire season. Orlando loses nothing if they don't get the games. The Jags, if they don't try to help Orlando out, most likely forever lose any chance to develop a fan base in the largest city in the U.S. without an NFL team. The Jags will need Orlando for that season far more than Orlando needs the Jags and that's where Orlando has the leverage. Whether Orlando uses it or not is another question, but they should.

Gainesville is not a great option for the Jags outside of proximity. The Jags would play second fiddle to the Gators, the natural grass field would be torn up and even ion the Jags average 60,000, that means the stadium is 1/3 empty. Never mind the lack of hotels in the area.

This never was about getting Orlando to become Duval fans. Never.

If you think playing hardball gets you anywhere, you'll be spending the rest of forever hosting juggling championships and business expos. Cool.

(10-07-2024, 11:27 PM)83Austin83 Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. The Jags are more likely to develop more fans in Orlando than in London. Even if a few people in London become Jags fan, they will switch whenever London gets their own NFL team.

I could care less about the actual Jags team. I'm a Lions fan. But I do get tired of being force fed the Jags on Channel 6 when there are better games on. Not when there are very few Jags fans in the area.

Sunday ticket is a thing, as is FOX broadcasts.

...or did someone steal your remote?

(10-07-2024, 11:27 PM)83Austin83 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2024, 10:53 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]I’d rather play one game a year in Orlando than London

I could care less about the actual Jags team. I'm a Lions fan. But I do get tired of being force fed the Jags on Channel 6 when there are better games on. Not when there are very few Jags fans in the area.

Lol, and here we have the heart of the matter. 

The real question everyone wants to you to answer is just how much less COULD you care if you really tried?

But honestly, we really couldn't care less at this point.

Bump

(10-07-2024, 11:27 PM)83Austin83 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2024, 10:53 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]I’d rather play one game a year in Orlando than London

Exactly. The Jags are more likely to develop more fans in Orlando than in London. Even if a few people in London become Jags fan, they will switch whenever London gets their own NFL team.

I could care less about the actual Jags team. I'm a Lions fan. But I do get tired of being force fed the Jags on Channel 6 when there are better games on. Not when there are very few Jags fans in the area.

I honestly don't care if the Jags come or not. In fact I would prefer the Jags not come. They will cause more congestion in Downtown Orlando (I go to the Farmer's Market at Lake Eola sometimes on Sundays) and really not bring much economic impact. These NFL owners, Khan included, take advantage of every situation.

I just want to make sure that if the Jags want to come to Orlando, that the city isn't taken advantage of. If all the Jags offer is some minor stadium improvements, to me it's not worth the trouble. That's just the Jags taking advantage of you with little in return. I'd rather tell the Jags to stick it and not have the games than only get the Jags to make moderate stadium improvements and nothing else.

In the very least I would make the Jags play a preseason game in Orlando every year or every other year. But Orlando needs to get the most they can get from Khan and if Khan refuses, tell him to pound sand and let the Jags play in Gainesville.

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(10-07-2024, 10:27 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]LOL

Sorry you are disillusioned about the way a city's board of tourism views an influx of 50K+ visitors 6 or 7 times a year.

I work closely with a tourism board in another county in FL concerning bringing visitors to the county via events. 

There is MUCH money to be made. And they value it immensely. 

That stadium sits dormant for a disturbingly long portion of the year and anyone with a brain would view this as an amazing opportunity to both improve it and utilize its wasted potential. 

The Jags coming to Orlando for a season would be a gift. 

You can make up a bunch of phony stipulations the city might impose should they have this imaginary leverage all you'd like. But its nonsense. 

Orlando would benefit from the money the Jags contribute to facility improvements and from the out of county FL -  and out-of-state visitors the games would draw. 

End of story.

While Camping World Stadium may sit a fair amount of the year, it's still utilized. Heck I was supposed to go to Feast on the 50 this weekend but that's been postponed due to the Hurricane. 

Heck Camping World Stadium will host EDC in November which has an economic impact of easily 3 Jags games.

Hi Matt, you tired of playing yet?

(10-07-2024, 09:05 PM)83Austin83 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2024, 12:37 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I agree.  Orlando has minimal leverage.  Getting the Jaguar games would be a big economic benefit to Orlando plus great exposure for both the city and the stadium.  If Orlando doesn't get the games, they get nothing.  How much can they really bluff?  Besides, I don't think it will take much arm twisting to have Orlando make renovations as most of those renovations would remain and benefit Orlando going forward.  They are already making renovations without even knowing if the Jaguars will go there.  The Jaguars are the ones with the better leverage because they have the option of Gainesville which is both closer to Jacksonville and has a larger stadium.  The Jaguars will likely play the two cities off each other to get the best deal.  

I do think Khan will ultimately select Orlando in hopes of expanding the fan base, but the idea that they are going to get on their knees and beg Orlando is ridiculous.  If Orlando gets too greedy, they just go to Gainesville.  Orlando knows this, so they'll likely make a very attractive offer.

Khan is a fool if he thinks playing one season in Orlando will suddenly make a lot of people in Orlando support the Jags. Heck most here in Orlando dislike the Jags.

Orlando doesn't really need the Jags. There are plenty of events and conventions that come to the city. The impact of 8 home games in Orlando economically is very little for Orlando. 

Like you said, if Orlando doesn't get the games, they get nothing. That's what Orlando gets now, so the city would lose nothing. You are right that Camping World Stadium is already getting renovations, but with the amount that Khan and the Jags would require, they would have to pay for a lot of it.

Orlando still has a lot of leverage. At the end of the day it's the Jags who don't have a home for an entire season. Orlando loses nothing if they don't get the games. The Jags, if they don't try to help Orlando out, most likely forever lose any chance to develop a fan base in the largest city in the U.S. without an NFL team. The Jags will need Orlando for that season far more than Orlando needs the Jags and that's where Orlando has the leverage. Whether Orlando uses it or not is another question, but they should.

Gainesville is not a great option for the Jags outside of proximity. The Jags would play second fiddle to the Gators, the natural grass field would be torn up and even ion the Jags average 60,000, that means the stadium is 1/3 empty. Never mind the lack of hotels in the area.

I disagree with this, especially as an Orlando Jag fan for many years (now in Jacksonville ironically). The CBS manager in Orlando may hate the jags (or rather love the fish), but there are many Jags fans like myself who have been fans for years.

Also lol at anyone in Jacksonville calling Orlando a 2 bit town when its metro is like twice as large as Jacksonville and more developed to boot. The only reason the 'city' looks bigger in jacksonville is cause Jacksonville is all of Duval county were as Orlando proper is a much smaller area.

Fun Fact, orlando is the world wide largest purchaser of michael sam jerseys.

Interestingly enough - the data is out there and the numbers are too.

Oxford Economics did a study on bowl game impact on the O-town market when CWS has hosted them in recent years.

The data they gleaned was so good, they've been awarded hundreds of millions for improvements since. Nearly half of the public tourism tax funding available in that period.

Even if a single Jags game gleans slightly less than the estimated 60 million dollars of impact a bowl game generates, why in the name of all things holy would the city jeopardize that to make demands?

I can hear the council talking this over now... "Meh, who needs $315 million in additional economic impact in 2027, anyway? If the Jags want to give that to our city, let's force them to do a bunch of [BLEEP] they don't want to do first!!"

Sounds sane.

BTW - here are the improvements the city of Orlando has already agreed to undertake to improve the stadium on its own dime as a result of that study:
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/...s%2C%20etc.

(10-08-2024, 01:59 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Interestingly enough - the data is out there and the numbers are too.

Oxford Economics did a study on bowl game impact on the O-town market when CWS has hosted them in recent years.

The data they gleaned was so good, they've been awarded hundreds of millions for improvements since. Nearly half of the public tourism tax funding available in that period.

Even if a single Jags game gleans slightly less than the estimated 60 million dollars of impact a bowl game generates, why in the name of all things holy would the city jeopardize that to make demands?

I can hear the council talking this over now... "Meh, who needs $315 million in additional economic impact in 2027, anyway?  If the Jags want to give that to our city, let's force them to do a bunch of [BLEEP] they don't want to do first!!"

Sounds sane.

BTW - here are the improvements the city of Orlando has already agreed to undertake to improve the stadium on its own dime as a result of that study:
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/...s%2C%20etc.

Very nice. That nukes the last argument. Well done.  If I had to guess Kahn would react the same way he did in the past to demands like this.

Remember the Jacksonville City attorney that had our newly elected mayor do something like this?  I believe it was Alvin Brown. She got fired and Brown needed to issue a statement retracting his position assuring Duval residents. (2010 or 2011?)

(10-08-2024, 01:29 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Bump

Yeah Jacksonville doesn’t need to get into a my city is better than your argument with Orlando.

We got the jags, Orlando literally wins in every other aspect. Well we got a beach but they got like 3 amazing water parks so….yeah they still win that one.

Oh we get way less traffic and they have the I4 eyesore so we win that one!

(10-08-2024, 01:56 PM)H8tank Wrote: [ -> ]Fun Fact, orlando is the world wide largest purchaser of michael sam jerseys.

we need to resurrect the downvote.

(10-09-2024, 06:08 AM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah Jacksonville doesn’t need to get into a my city is better than your argument with Orlando.

We got the jags, Orlando literally wins in every other aspect. Well we got a beach but they got like 3 amazing water parks so….yeah they still win that one.

Oh we get way less traffic and they have the I4 eyesore so we win that one!

I have lived here most life and have never understood why people argue one city better than another. Mostly it is people that just like to argue or those looking to get over on others. (greedy people)  At the end of the day it matters little in this string as the contract between Jax and the Jags says no relocation and all games played here except London. Orlando just needs to enjoy the one year of Jag games if they win the bidding process and leave it at that. Besides every time we fart the Northeast sea breeze blows it to Orlando.  ...

(10-09-2024, 06:08 AM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah Jacksonville doesn’t need to get into a my city is better than your argument with Orlando.

We got the jags, Orlando literally wins in every other aspect. Well we got a beach but they got like 3 amazing water parks so….yeah they still win that one.

Oh we get way less traffic and they have the I4 eyesore so we win that one!

Yeah. It's definitely not about that. Orlando is a tourist Mecca with theme parks for days. Not many places on Earth have that particular resource. 

But that doesn't change the basic principles of negotiations between cities and organizations that can bring them even more tourist dollars. They aren't going to make outrageous demands of the only NFL team ever likely to come to their doorstep in need of a stadium for a few months. 

They'll work a fair deal and graciously accept the influx of funds.

(10-07-2024, 09:05 PM)83Austin83 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2024, 12:37 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I agree.  Orlando has minimal leverage.  Getting the Jaguar games would be a big economic benefit to Orlando plus great exposure for both the city and the stadium.  If Orlando doesn't get the games, they get nothing.  How much can they really bluff?  Besides, I don't think it will take much arm twisting to have Orlando make renovations as most of those renovations would remain and benefit Orlando going forward.  They are already making renovations without even knowing if the Jaguars will go there.  The Jaguars are the ones with the better leverage because they have the option of Gainesville which is both closer to Jacksonville and has a larger stadium.  The Jaguars will likely play the two cities off each other to get the best deal.  

I do think Khan will ultimately select Orlando in hopes of expanding the fan base, but the idea that they are going to get on their knees and beg Orlando is ridiculous.  If Orlando gets too greedy, they just go to Gainesville.  Orlando knows this, so they'll likely make a very attractive offer.

Gainesville is not a great option for the Jags outside of proximity. The Jags would play second fiddle to the Gators, the natural grass field would be torn up and even ion the Jags average 60,000, that means the stadium is 1/3 empty. Never mind the lack of hotels in the area.

Gainesville is only 72 miles from Jacksonville and has 66 hotels.  In comparison, Orlando is 141 miles from Jacksonville, which would more likely require a hotel stay rather than driving ~ 70 miles via a return trip from Gainesville.  From a convenience standpoint, Gainesville is a much better option.

I used to like going to Orlando but I got sick of them shoving the LGBTQ thing down everyone's throat in their attempt to become the San Fran of the Southeast.

(10-09-2024, 10:00 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2024, 09:05 PM)83Austin83 Wrote: [ -> ]Gainesville is not a great option for the Jags outside of proximity. The Jags would play second fiddle to the Gators, the natural grass field would be torn up and even ion the Jags average 60,000, that means the stadium is 1/3 empty. Never mind the lack of hotels in the area.

Gainesville is only 72 miles from Jacksonville and has 66 hotels.  In comparison, Orlando is 141 miles from Jacksonville, which would more likely require a hotel stay rather than driving ~ 70 miles via a return trip from Gainesville.  From a convenience standpoint, Gainesville is a much better option.

I used to like going to Orlando but I got sick of them shoving the LGBTQ thing down everyone's throat in their attempt to become the San Fran of the Southeast.

THIS in spades.  I prefer Gainesville as well. It is much easier to commute for everyone, players, coaches, media and fans.  The average fan and SEASON TICKET holder can make the trip down to the game and back in one day.  Also, the Jaguars and the University of Florida are growing ties with each other on a number of fronts. Neither side is beating their chest talking about "leverage" and "imposing" their will on the other.  

I don't know who doesn't believe there are enough hotels but they must not understand college football. It has plenty of hotels and it is much quicker to get to the I95 corridor than to drive anywhere in Orlando. If you include these hotels then Gainesville actually may have more with better accessibility.

Obviously math is a problem for some people. the swamp doesn't hold 180,000 people.
The grass is not an issue go educate yourself.

Gainesville has a lot more experience in football game days. Orlando would be behind the curve on game day experiences.  Actually this is a positive Orlando cannot compete with. The UF stadium, locker room and overall facilities are getting a pretty good facelift already without the Jaguars contributing.

(10-09-2024, 10:37 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-09-2024, 10:00 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Gainesville is only 72 miles from Jacksonville and has 66 hotels.  In comparison, Orlando is 141 miles from Jacksonville, which would more likely require a hotel stay rather than driving ~ 70 miles via a return trip from Gainesville.  From a convenience standpoint, Gainesville is a much better option.

I used to like going to Orlando but I got sick of them shoving the LGBTQ thing down everyone's throat in their attempt to become the San Fran of the Southeast.

THIS in spades.  I prefer Gainesville as well. It is much easier to commute for everyone, players, coaches, media and fans.  The average fan and SEASON TICKET holder can make the trip down to the game and back in one day.  Also, the Jaguars and the University of Florida are growing ties with each other on a number of fronts. Neither side is beating their chest talking about "leverage" and "imposing" their will on the other.  

I don't know who doesn't believe there are enough hotels but they must not understand college football. It has plenty of hotels and it is much quicker to get to the I95 corridor than to drive anywhere in Orlando. If you include these hotels then Gainesville actually may have more with better accessibility.

Obviously math is a problem for some people. the swamp doesn't hold 180,000 people.
The grass is not an issue go educate yourself.

Gainesville has a lot more experience in football game days. Orlando would be behind the curve on game day experiences.  Actually this is a positive Orlando cannot compete with. The UF stadium, locker room and overall facilities are getting a pretty good facelift already without the Jaguars contributing.

It holds about 90,000 meaning if only 60,000 NFL fans show up (which is typical in Jax) the stadium will be (90,000 - 60,000) / 90,000 = 1/3 empty.

I guess math is a problem for some people.