The center position is once again a need for us imo. Morse started the season pretty strong but he has regressed almost each game this year it seems. I think center is once again one of our biggest needs. We need a center that can push the dline and that is good against the run. Last years draft was one of the strongest center classes in recent memory and we missed out. This year the center class is mech. There are some decent prospects but none that great. I think Tate Rateledge would be our best solution if we go center in the draft but we would likely have to take him with our 2nd round pick or trade form our 3rd back into the 2nd. Tate has played RG at Georgia but he has practiced at C and they thought about playing him there.
If we dont get a center in FA or draft Rateledge my next choice would be Jake Slaughter. I watch every Florida game and Slaughter has had a great season, the only game I seen him struggle a bit was in the Ole Miss game against Walter Nolen who is one of the best lineman in the country. Slaughter is also the nations highest power 5 rated center. Ja Slaughter in the 4th might be great value if he makes it there. PFF has Colorado States Jacob Gardner as the highest rated center overall in college with a 88.1 grade but I havent seen him play and he goes agaisnt weak comp. Maybe a late round pick for Gardner would be worth it. Jared Wilson and Jake Majors would be 2 other options i would consider but Im not sure either could beat out Morse.
If we go center in the FA route Ryan Kelly would be a nice stop game option or we could sign Drew Malman if the Falcons dont resign him. Malman is only 26 and his strength is run blocking. We have to bring in a center that is a good run blocker and Malman is one of the best run blokcing centers in the league. To fix this oline it needs to start in the middle and we have to uprade the center position and it needs to be a priority this offseason.
So in FA
Kelly - Stop gap
Malman
Draft
Rateldege
Slaughter
Wilson
Majors
Gardner
On the Jags roster
Morse
Forter
Thoughts on what yall think we should do at center next year?
Morse is the starter going into next year, Fortner can just be cut.
Draft might be for a new scheme next year. I think that if we stick with a zone scheme it can be Brailsford (Ala), Wilson (Ga), or Slaughter (Fla). If we move away from ZBS I want Majors (Tx) or Foster (Ks). The first group of guys are lighter while the latter two are going to play at 325 or larger at the next level. I know Ratledge is in this discussion, but he's going to play guard at the next level IMO and I'd gladly take him to replace Scherff.
I always want road graders more than athletes for IOL though, so give me Majors to move Morse out by mid-season. He's work in any scheme, but he's a powerful at 325 and I think gives the best shot to clean up the interior next year.
(12-07-2024, 10:19 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Morse is the starter going into next year, Fortner can just be cut.
Draft might be for a new scheme next year. I think that if we stick with a zone scheme it can be Brailsford (Ala), Wilson (Ga), or Slaughter (Fla). If we move away from ZBS I want Majors (Tx) or Foster (Ks). The first group of guys are lighter while the latter two are going to play at 325 or larger at the next level. I know Ratledge is in this discussion, but he's going to play guard at the next level IMO and I'd gladly take him to replace Scherff.
I always want road graders more than athletes for IOL though, so give me Majors to move Morse out by mid-season. He's work in any scheme, but he's a powerful at 325 and I think gives the best shot to clean up the interior next year.
You have no clue if Morse will be the starter going into next year. If we get Ben Johson he will likely want an upgrade there because he loves to run the football. As far as Ratledge, it just depends on who drafts him on where he plays and what the coaches want him to do. Beebe played LT and guard at Kansas and people thought he was going to be a G, he plays center for Dallas. Ratlledge can play center or guard and Georgia was going to put him there but ended up going with Wilson. Graham Barton played LT his last year and Duke and people thought he was going to play G in the NFL and he is now a center. Ratlledge we be able to play any of the interior spots. Majors is listed at 315, Slaughter at 308 and Wilson at 310. They are all about the same size. No thank you on Brailsford in any scheme.
Just because a guy is 5 or 7 more pounds than the other doesnt mean hes better suited for a power scheme lol. Is it because of the way he plays you feel he is better suited than the rest for a power run blocking shceme or because he has a few more pounds? I know Florida has a lot of power runs up the middle and Slaughter gets pretty good push and is also decent at getting to the next level, he would be fine in any scheme. Im going to watch the Georgia and Texas game today as both have multiple lineman we could use. I havent watched Majors enough to know how good he is in run blocking but nfldraftbuzz has him with a 78 grade in run blocking, if that is accurate thats not what I want out of my center and thats not the center you want in a power scheme.
(12-07-2024, 10:53 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-07-2024, 10:19 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Morse is the starter going into next year, Fortner can just be cut.
Draft might be for a new scheme next year. I think that if we stick with a zone scheme it can be Brailsford (Ala), Wilson (Ga), or Slaughter (Fla). If we move away from ZBS I want Majors (Tx) or Foster (Ks). The first group of guys are lighter while the latter two are going to play at 325 or larger at the next level. I know Ratledge is in this discussion, but he's going to play guard at the next level IMO and I'd gladly take him to replace Scherff.
I always want road graders more than athletes for IOL though, so give me Majors to move Morse out by mid-season. He's work in any scheme, but he's a powerful at 325 and I think gives the best shot to clean up the interior next year.
You have no clue if Morse will be the starter going into next year. If we get Ben Johson he will likely want an upgrade there because he loves to run the football. As far as Ratledge, it just depends on who drafts him on where he plays and what the coaches want him to do. Beebe played LT and guard at Kansas and people thought he was going to be a G, he plays center for Dallas. Ratlledge can play center or guard and Georgia was going to put him there but ended up going with Wilson. Graham Barton played LT his last year and Duke and people thought he was going to play G in the NFL and he is now a center. Ratlledge we be able to play any of the interior spots. Majors is listed at 315, Slaughter at 308 and Wilson at 310. They are all about the same size. No thank you on Brailsford in any scheme.
Just because a guy is 5 or 7 more pounds than the other doesnt mean hes better suited for a power scheme lol. Is it because of the way he plays you feel he is better suited than the rest for a power run blocking shceme or because he has a few more pounds? I know Florida has a lot of power runs up the middle and Slaughter gets pretty good push and is also decent at getting to the next level, he would be fine in any scheme. Im going to watch the Georgia and Texas game today as both have multiple lineman we could use. I havent watched Majors enough to know how good he is in run blocking but nfldraftbuzz has him with a 78 grade in run blocking, if that is accurate thats not what I want out of my center and thats not the center you want in a power scheme.
We know that Morse's salary is guaranteed next year, so it's 99% that he's on the roster and that he will be better than any rookie they bring in on Day 1. Your position would be understandable if the #1 was Fortner, but Morse is still, at this moment, a middle of the road starter in the NFL. As such, he's likely to outperform a rookie leading into week 1. As for the rest, it's all speculation at this point and you're basing your opinions on players you haven't even watched play, so we'll take it for the little that it's worth. I didn't say they HAVE to be big to play in a power, I said I prefer my IOLs to be bigger. Majors is listed at 315 but he's played around 320 all year and it's likely the next five or so won't be a challenge. He's a great pass blocker already and has the tools to be great in the run as well. Again, that's if someone uses him the way I would. I would rather have a center at 6'3" 325 than at 6"5" 308. I don't want to take a guy who is 305 and hope I can get him up to 315 like we did with Ben Bartch for 3 years. That's called a "preference" and something we use when "speculating" about what a team will do 6 months in the future. Majors is likely the best center in this draft, so at the end of the day, it's unlikely this team takes him anyway.
(12-07-2024, 12:06 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-07-2024, 10:53 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]You have no clue if Morse will be the starter going into next year. If we get Ben Johson he will likely want an upgrade there because he loves to run the football. As far as Ratledge, it just depends on who drafts him on where he plays and what the coaches want him to do. Beebe played LT and guard at Kansas and people thought he was going to be a G, he plays center for Dallas. Ratlledge can play center or guard and Georgia was going to put him there but ended up going with Wilson. Graham Barton played LT his last year and Duke and people thought he was going to play G in the NFL and he is now a center. Ratlledge we be able to play any of the interior spots. Majors is listed at 315, Slaughter at 308 and Wilson at 310. They are all about the same size. No thank you on Brailsford in any scheme.
Just because a guy is 5 or 7 more pounds than the other doesnt mean hes better suited for a power scheme lol. Is it because of the way he plays you feel he is better suited than the rest for a power run blocking shceme or because he has a few more pounds? I know Florida has a lot of power runs up the middle and Slaughter gets pretty good push and is also decent at getting to the next level, he would be fine in any scheme. Im going to watch the Georgia and Texas game today as both have multiple lineman we could use. I havent watched Majors enough to know how good he is in run blocking but nfldraftbuzz has him with a 78 grade in run blocking, if that is accurate thats not what I want out of my center and thats not the center you want in a power scheme.
We know that Morse's salary is guaranteed next year, so it's 99% that he's on the roster and that he will be better than any rookie they bring in on Day 1. Your position would be understandable if the #1 was Fortner, but Morse is still, at this moment, a middle of the road starter in the NFL. As such, he's likely to outperform a rookie leading into week 1. As for the rest, it's all speculation at this point and you're basing your opinions on players you haven't even watched play, so we'll take it for the little that it's worth. I didn't say they HAVE to be big to play in a power, I said I prefer my IOLs to be bigger. Majors is listed at 315 but he's played around 320 all year and it's likely the next five or so won't be a challenge. He's a great pass blocker already and has the tools to be great in the run as well. Again, that's if someone uses him the way I would. I would rather have a center at 6'3" 325 than at 6"5" 308. I don't want to take a guy who is 305 and hope I can get him up to 315 like we did with Ben Bartch for 3 years. That's called a "preference" and something we use when "speculating" about what a team will do 6 months in the future. Majors is likely the best center in this draft, so at the end of the day, it's unlikely this team takes him anyway.
If Morse plays the rest of the year like he has the last few it wont matter if he is on the roster and will likely get beat out by a rookie. He hasnt looked like a middle of the road starter as of late, if he has it wouldnt be a need. He will be 33 and it wont be the new regimes guy. Who havent i seen play? Ive seen them all play outside from Gardner, they are all in the SEC. If I haven't seen any of them play it wouldnt matter to me who we get at center. I have seen Majors play the least so thats why I asked what makes you think he would be best in a power scheme when he is rated as a low run blocker. Do you have a link saying Majors has played around 320 this year? Thats very heavy for a center and hes adding weight and its even more concerning if his run blocking grade is accurate. Pretty much all the best centers in the league are under 315 in Ragnow, Linderbaum, Humphries, Kelly, Jurgens, and Kelce was etc.. Majors better look better to day than he did against Georgia in the last game. As far as Ben Bartch he was a 230 lb TE coming out of High School so thats a very bad example.
This is a very interesting conversation!
I just hope they draft a guy to compete with Morse for the starting job. His performance has definitely regressed the last few games. He will definitely have his hands full with T'Vondre Sweat tomorrow. This guy is huge and has been playing really well.
Seems simple - You have Morse and a year to groom his replacement.
Not really a great year to draft one, but we have extra picks to work with.
Fingers crossed the new regime plans to run more power than the current ZBS heavy approach.
Sick and tired of seeing short yardage fail after fail after fail.
You lost me at the first sentence, OP. "Once again a need" suggests that any of us considered the position fixed with the Morse signing. He was a bit of masking tape holding up a load bearing wall.
It always was a need.
I gotta agree with the tone of response, though, we gotta get rid of the GM and coach and figure out who is coming in and how they want to run before we start worry about which player will solve the issue.
(12-09-2024, 08:38 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]You lost me at the first sentence, OP. "Once again a need" suggests that any of us considered the position fixed with the Morse signing. He was a bit of masking tape holding up a load bearing wall.
It always was a need.
I gotta agree with the tone of response, though, we gotta get rid of the GM and coach and figure out who is coming in and how they want to run before we start worry about which player will solve the issue.
I'm talking about 2025. If Morse can play like he did the first half of the season it wouldn't be a need heading into next year for the starting position. Some players can play in any scheme and it won't matter what type of offense we run next year. I think if we draft Ratledge or Jake Slaughter the scheme won't matter. Which scheme do you think Ratledge wouldn't fit? Like last year, which scheme would Frazier, Beebe, JPJ not fi in?
Like Mason Graham, Will Johnson, Hunter etc. I don't care what scheme we run. The scheme we run won't change that I have those guys at the top of my board.
Jake Slaughter = Pillow Fortner 2.0
(12-09-2024, 10:05 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Jake Slaughter = Pillow Fortner 2.0
Lol, another great oline take by you. The guy that wanted to draft Evan Neal over Hutchinson. The guy that thought Fortner was the guy for a couple years and the last person to realize Fortner was horrendous. Slaughter is the highest rated center and can actually move poeple. It shows you haven't watched any Florida games
Jake Slaughter, Florida Gators — 81.2
Jake Slaughter has been as consistent as they come for the Gators and is a huge reason why they’ve had so much success down the stretch. Slaughter is a great athlete who has been dominant paving the way for the run. But he has also kept D.J. Lagway upright all year — outside of one sack in Week 13 — to earn an 83.8 pass-blocking grade.
You want a guy that has a poor run blocking grade to play in a power scheme and you say one of the best run blocking centers is Fortner 2.0. Makes sense lol
(12-09-2024, 10:44 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 10:05 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Jake Slaughter = Pillow Fortner 2.0
Lol, another great oline take by you. The guy that wanted to draft Evan Neal over Hutchinson. The guy that thought Fortner was the guy for a couple years and the last person to realize Fortner was horrendous. Slaughter is the highest rated center and can actually move poeple. It shows you haven't watched any Florida games
Jake Slaughter, Florida Gators — 81.2
Jake Slaughter has been as consistent as they come for the Gators and is a huge reason why they’ve had so much success down the stretch. Slaughter is a great athlete who has been dominant paving the way for the run. But he has also kept D.J. Lagway upright all year — outside of one sack in Week 13 — to earn an 83.8 pass-blocking grade.
You want a guy that has a poor run blocking grade to play in a power scheme and you say one of the best run blocking centers is Fortner 2.0. Makes sense lol
Yes, at the time I would've taken Neal because not having my quarterback spend two half seasons knocked out of games was more important than sacks IMO. And guess what? It still is today since we haven't fixed it. The foundations of my philosophy are still correct and will continue to be regardless of how you attack it, because the QB and his protection in far and above the penultimate factor in NFL success right now.. And you have to misrepresent my position on Fortner to make yourself look good. I repeatedly said rookies get the benefit of the doubt, when he showed no signs of improvement the next year in camp I was ready move on from him, pounding the table to draft a center this past season even with the addition of Morse. So yeah. I make plenty of sense to folks capable of seeing the larger picture, which is why you and I are often at loggerheads. As for Slaughter, time will tell and I'll likely be right again...as usual. But if not, and we get him and he's great? Wonderful, the team will benefit!
Arguing about the center position when it's already in place for 2025 is wild.
It's not even the off season
(12-09-2024, 11:18 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 10:44 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Lol, another great oline take by you. The guy that wanted to draft Evan Neal over Hutchinson. The guy that thought Fortner was the guy for a couple years and the last person to realize Fortner was horrendous. Slaughter is the highest rated center and can actually move poeple. It shows you haven't watched any Florida games
Jake Slaughter, Florida Gators — 81.2
Jake Slaughter has been as consistent as they come for the Gators and is a huge reason why they’ve had so much success down the stretch. Slaughter is a great athlete who has been dominant paving the way for the run. But he has also kept D.J. Lagway upright all year — outside of one sack in Week 13 — to earn an 83.8 pass-blocking grade.
You want a guy that has a poor run blocking grade to play in a power scheme and you say one of the best run blocking centers is Fortner 2.0. Makes sense lol
Yes, at the time I would've taken Neal because not having my quarterback spend two half seasons knocked out of games was more important than sacks IMO. And guess what? It still is today since we haven't fixed it. The foundations of my philosophy are still correct and will continue to be regardless of how you attack it, because the QB and his protection in far and above the penultimate factor in NFL success right now.. And you have to misrepresent my position on Fortner to make yourself look good. I repeatedly said rookies get the benefit of the doubt, when he showed no signs of improvement the next year in camp I was ready move on from him, pounding the table to draft a center this past season even with the addition of Morse. So yeah. I make plenty of sense to folks capable of seeing the larger picture, which is why you and I are often at loggerheads. As for Slaughter, time will tell and I'll likely be right again...as usual. But if not, and we get him and he's great? Wonderful, the team will benefit!
LOL. Pasing up better players does nothing but hurt the team. Just taking a lineman doesn't help either. Your philosophy sucks. Your take on Fortner didnt make me look like anything it just made you look like you don't watch the games or you need glasses. With that said, what in Slaughters game makes you think he is Fortner 2.0? Any player can fail or be good but I'm just trying to find the logic here on your take that the highest rated center is the worst center in the league 2.0
(12-09-2024, 11:22 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Arguing about the center position when it's already in place for 2025 is wild.
It's not even the off season
It's highly possible the new GM will want to upgrade the center position next year. Morse is the 42nd ranked center and there are 32 teams. I wouldnt say the center position is already in place for next year.
While we were busy locking down Maason Smith with the #48 pick int the draft, the Steelers secured their Center for the next 15 years by selecting that mean and nasty Zack Frazier our of WVU with the #51 pick.
Maason Smith
* Freshman All-SEC (2021)
* 2022 - injury in game 1
* 2023 - 28 tackles + 2.5 sacks
Zach Frazier
* First-team All-Big 12 (2023)
* 2× second-team All-Big 12 (2021, 2022)
* High school: Frazier was a four-time West Virginia state wrestling champion in the heavyweight division at Fairmont Senior High School. He finished his high school career with a 159-2 record, the highest winning percentage in Marion County history. He was also named the 2019–20 Times West Virginian wrestler of the year.
(12-09-2024, 11:36 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 11:18 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, at the time I would've taken Neal because not having my quarterback spend two half seasons knocked out of games was more important than sacks IMO. And guess what? It still is today since we haven't fixed it. The foundations of my philosophy are still correct and will continue to be regardless of how you attack it, because the QB and his protection in far and above the penultimate factor in NFL success right now.. And you have to misrepresent my position on Fortner to make yourself look good. I repeatedly said rookies get the benefit of the doubt, when he showed no signs of improvement the next year in camp I was ready move on from him, pounding the table to draft a center this past season even with the addition of Morse. So yeah. I make plenty of sense to folks capable of seeing the larger picture, which is why you and I are often at loggerheads. As for Slaughter, time will tell and I'll likely be right again...as usual. But if not, and we get him and he's great? Wonderful, the team will benefit!
LOL. Pasing up better players does nothing but hurt the team. Just taking a lineman doesn't help either. Your philosophy sucks. Your take on Fortner didnt make me look like anything it just made you look like you don't watch the games or you need glasses. With that said, what in Slaughters game makes you think he is Fortner 2.0? Any player can fail or be good but I'm just trying to find the logic here on your take that the highest rated center is the worst center in the league 2.0
(12-09-2024, 11:22 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Arguing about the center position when it's already in place for 2025 is wild.
It's not even the off season
It's highly possible the new GM will want to upgrade the center position next year. Morse is the 42nd ranked center and there are 32 teams. I wouldnt say the center position is already in place for next year.
And there we have it, the perfect example of why you lack the ability to see the big picture. The "highest rated" center...lol.
Draftbuzz: 3
PFF: 6
Drafttek: 5
Walter: 4
Tankathon: 8
I'm sure you've found a listing a gaterluvers.com or some other swamp denizen site that validates your myopia, but no one with any real insight has him that high. Lol.
(12-09-2024, 11:46 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]While we were busy locking down Maason Smith with the #48 pick int the draft, the Steelers secured their Center for the next 15 years by selecting that mean and nasty Zack Frazier our of WVU with the #51 pick.
Maason Smith
* Freshman All-SEC (2021)
* 2022 - injury in game 1
* 2023 - 28 tackles + 2.5 sacks
Zach Frazier
* First-team All-Big 12 (2023)
* 2× second-team All-Big 12 (2021, 2022)
* High school: Frazier was a four-time West Virginia state wrestling champion in the heavyweight division at Fairmont Senior High School. He finished his high school career with a 159-2 record, the highest winning percentage in Marion County history. He was also named the 2019–20 Times West Virginian wrestler of the year.
Yep, Smith better take a stratospheric leap next year to make that pick worthwhile.
(12-09-2024, 11:55 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 11:36 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]LOL. Pasing up better players does nothing but hurt the team. Just taking a lineman doesn't help either. Your philosophy sucks. Your take on Fortner didnt make me look like anything it just made you look like you don't watch the games or you need glasses. With that said, what in Slaughters game makes you think he is Fortner 2.0? Any player can fail or be good but I'm just trying to find the logic here on your take that the highest rated center is the worst center in the league 2.0
It's highly possible the new GM will want to upgrade the center position next year. Morse is the 42nd ranked center and there are 32 teams. I wouldnt say the center position is already in place for next year.
And there we have it, the perfect example of why you lack the ability to see the big picture. The "highest rated" center...lol.
Draftbuzz: 3
PFF: 6
Drafttek: 5
Walter: 4
Tankathon: 8
I'm sure you've found a listing a gaterluvers.com or some other swamp denizen site that validates your myopia, but no one with any real insight has him that high. Lol.
(12-09-2024, 11:46 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]While we were busy locking down Maason Smith with the #48 pick int the draft, the Steelers secured their Center for the next 15 years by selecting that mean and nasty Zack Frazier our of WVU with the #51 pick.
Maason Smith
* Freshman All-SEC (2021)
* 2022 - injury in game 1
* 2023 - 28 tackles + 2.5 sacks
Zach Frazier
* First-team All-Big 12 (2023)
* 2× second-team All-Big 12 (2021, 2022)
* High school: Frazier was a four-time West Virginia state wrestling champion in the heavyweight division at Fairmont Senior High School. He finished his high school career with a 159-2 record, the highest winning percentage in Marion County history. He was also named the 2019–20 Times West Virginian wrestler of the year.
Yep, Smith better take a stratospheric leap next year to make that pick worthwhile.
I'm talking about production. How he has played this year. So if those sites move him up on their board then you like him better? Lol. So which one is it? Is he 3rd? 8th? Now it makes sense why you don't like him. It has nothing to do with you watching him play it's because a site hated him rated low on their board.
https://www.pff.com/news/college-footbal...ek-15-2024