Quote:As to the text in bold...male bovine excrement. The entire premise of your sides argument is that the team hasn't won under Bradley, though EVERYONE knows he hasn't been close to having the talent until the offense started developing over the course of last year.
The 2002 defense was no better than last year's defense?
Name 3 players on last year's defense as good as second year Marcus Stroud, John Henderson, or Donovin Darius.
This I wanna see.
So because the 2002 Jags had three very good players that completely negates one poor CB plus an atrocious one, and three mediocre LBs? The DEs were Marco Coleman and .... well Brackens played 5 games. I'd call Odrick and Clemons/Branch as at least equal.
Haven't you heard the expression that a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link? There were a lot of weak links in 2002. To a certain extent a good coach can work around weaknesses in his team. A GOOD coach.
Even if you want to make the claim that the defensive personnel was better in 2002 (and I disagree) were they 9th vs. 31st better?
Of course there's a limit to the ability of coaching, you can't make chicken salad from chicken [BLEEP]. But the 2015 Jags defense was not as bad as you make it out to be, and in 2002 two very good DTs plus a decent SS alone can't prop up an entire defense. Nonetheless, John Pease coached them into a top ten defense that year.
And then there's
Houston, week 6. Three plays starting at 6:15 left in the 3rd quarter.
Quote:As to the text in bold...male bovine excrement. The entire premise of your sides argument is that the team hasn't won under Bradley, though EVERYONE knows he hasn't been close to having the talent until the offense started developing over the course of last year.
The 2002 defense was no better than last year's defense?
Name 3 players on last year's defense as good as second year Marcus Stroud, John Henderson, or Donovin Darius.
This I wanna see.
Let's be honest, Stroud until his third year was getting whispered about being a bust as he passed people in the halls of Alltel stadium, and Henderson wasn't special as a rookie, either. DD was always a good hitter but not much in coverage. I'd say that Odrick, Miller, and Poz were at least as good of players in 2015 as the three you mentioned in 2002, but really the argument is getting old and tired.
Do you think Gabbert could be a great QB? He had terrible coaches, bad offensive line in front of him, and terrible WRs during his time here. Why are people so quick to excuse Gus for never showing a hint of greatness?
Quote:So because the 2002 Jags had three very good players that completely negates one poor CB plus an atrocious one, and three mediocre LBs? The DEs were Marco Coleman and .... well Brackens played 5 games. I'd call Odrick and Clemons/Branch as at least equal.
Haven't you heard the expression that a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link? There were a lot of weak links in 2002. To a certain extent a good coach can work around weaknesses in his team. A GOOD coach.
Even if you want to make the claim that the defensive personnel was better in 2002 (and I disagree) were they 9th vs. 31st better?
Of course there's a limit to the ability of coaching, you can't make chicken salad from chicken [BAD WORD REMOVED]. But the 2015 Jags defense was not as bad as you make it out to be, and in 2002 two very good DTs plus a decent SS alone can't prop up an entire defense. Nonetheless, John Pease coached them into a top ten defense that year.
And then there's
Houston, week 6. Three plays starting at 6:15 left in the 3rd quarter.
That 2002 team also had Akin Ayodele-who would easily start on this team, Rob Meier, Spicer (both of whom may have started on this roster), and Fernando Bryant, a former first round pick and unquestionably better than Craft.
Last year's defense?
One good corner, zero safeties, two good but flawed LBs in Smith and Poz, an average NT, an average LDE, and nothing at all that resembles a pass rusher. Nothing at all that resembles a dominant player like Stroud or Henderson.
There is no way you convince me last year's defense was more talented.
Was 2002's defense 9th vs 31st better? No. But certainly more talented and better equipped to produce superior results.
Quote:Let's be honest, Stroud until his third year was getting whispered about being a bust as he passed people in the halls of Alltel stadium, and Henderson wasn't special as a rookie, either. DD was always a good hitter but not much in coverage. I'd say that Odrick, Miller, and Poz were at least as good of players in 2015 as the three you mentioned in 2002, but really the argument is getting old and tired.
Do you think Gabbert could be a great QB? He had terrible coaches, bad offensive line in front of him, and terrible WRs during his time here. Why are people so quick to excuse Gus for never showing a hint of greatness?
After Stroud's rookie year, yes there were whispers he may be a bust, especially after Hutchinson abused him. But he was way better his second year than he was in his first year. DD was a liability in coverage, but still way better than either safety playing last year.
Odrick Miller and Poz are in no way shape or form a better trio than second year Stroud, first year Henderson, and DD. Henderson had a 3 sack game his rookie year against Philadelphia. There was nobody on the Jaguars defense last year capable of doing that, And please don't put Miller, of all players, in the same breath as Stroud or Henderson. Miller is an average at best DT/NT.
Gabbert? He will never be great. But he is showing he is better than he showed here with a better surrounding cast.
I'm not excusing Gus.
The way I see the team now is kind of like the 1996 team before it went on its run. It has killed itself with big time mistakes and losing games they coulda/shoulda won. If they cut down on the turnovers and stay healthy, this year's team-can reach 9-7 or better. If not, I will be among the first to call for Bradley to be replaced.
Quote:Let's be honest, Stroud until his third year was getting whispered about being a bust as he passed people in the halls of Alltel stadium, and Henderson wasn't special as a rookie, either. DD was always a good hitter but not much in coverage. I'd say that Odrick, Miller, and Poz were at least as good of players in 2015 as the three you mentioned in 2002, but really the argument is getting old and tired.
Do you think Gabbert could be a great QB? He had terrible coaches, bad offensive line in front of him, and terrible WRs during his time here. Why are people so quick to excuse Gus for never showing a hint of greatness?
LOL! 2002 was one of Marcus Stroud's most productive seasons as a pro. It's what put him on everyone's radar.
As usual you just spew a bunch of ignorant nonsense.
Quote:Let's be honest, Stroud until his third year was getting whispered about being a bust as he passed people in the halls of Alltel stadium, and Henderson wasn't special as a rookie, either. DD was always a good hitter but not much in coverage. I'd say that Odrick, Miller, and Poz were at least as good of players in 2015 as the three you mentioned in 2002, but really the argument is getting old and tired.
Do you think Gabbert could be a great QB? He had terrible coaches, bad offensive line in front of him, and terrible WRs during his time here. Why are people so quick to excuse Gus for never showing a hint of greatness?
I don't know if you remember watching but Stroud was pretty good in 2002 and Big John had an extremely promising rookie year.
Quote:I don't know if you remember watching but Stroud was pretty good in 2002 and Big John had an extremely promising rookie year.
It's pretty pathetic when you have to make things up in order to support your argument.
I also love how he uses their youth as an excuse for Coughlin's lack of success in 2002 but completely dismisses youth when it comes to the fact that Gus has had one of the youngest rosters to work with in the entire NFL every year he has been here.
Quote:1. I never said TC was anything other than a good coach. I said he has won when he has had talent, and has not won when he hasn't had talent. His time here in Jacksonville and New York proves it.
2. I never said Gus has proven himself to be a good head coach. My main contention has been he has been saddled with a roster so devoid of talent and experience prior to this year, it was virtually impossible to prove himself to be a good coach or not. I have been consistent on this point, and this year, I have been consistent in saying talent will not be an issue with him this year. This is echoed by recent comments from Caldwell. To me, Bradley must win this year.
I am not a "Gus hugger."
Respect for the good discussion man. I've enjoyed the debate. Everyone's made good points. Obviously we all want it to workout regardless who the HC is. This team is looking good on paper.
Quote:Respect for the good discussion man. I've enjoyed the debate. Everyone's made good points. Obviously we all want it to workout regardless who the HC is. This team is looking good on paper.
And this...is the moral of the story!
Quote:I don't know if you remember watching but Stroud was pretty good in 2002 and Big John had an extremely promising rookie year.
Actually that is true, Stroud had a pretty decent year. Nothing compared to elite players or anything, but pretty good.
Still, I don't see the 2002 Jaguars defense as being full of great talent or the 2015 team being so devoid of defensive talent that coaching wasn't a significant factor.
Of course I see it's still the case that no one wants to address the fact that Gus had the fifth worst season of all NFL teams in 2015 with a QB that broke all of the Jaguars single season records and was second in the NFL in TD passes.
Like I've continued saying, anyone here that thinks Gus can be great hasn't been paying attention, and since he's already made it clear he's not a difference maker the team would have been better served moving on.
The thing that all Jaguars fans should be most fearful of is that Gus turns out to be an "Andy Dalton" of coaching. Good enough for a delusional front office to think he's the answer, but obviously someone that won't ever make it and that the rest of the league is thankful the team is keeping. I'd hate to see most of Bortles' and the Allen Bros careers flushed down the toilet toiling in futility for a loser.
Quote:Say what? It might have taken Stroud a few years to reach the Pro Bowl, but we were loving him out of the gate and Henderson too. I certainly don't recall anyone suggesting Stroud was a bust at any point during his first three years. Heck, he had 11 sacks between years two and three alone. And Henderson was the absolute boss as a rookie after sending shockwaves through the NFL with 3 sacks in his very first start. He was double-teamed consistently the remainder of his career.
It's called making things up to support your argument.
What ifs are so fun right?
What if we win the SB?!
Quote:Let's say he goes 10-6 and we win the division to make the playoffs. Will you think Bradley is a good coach?
To be coaching in the NFL, I think its safe to assume that people around the league think hes a "good coach". Its not like he got this job because he does not know anything about football, hes actually pretty well known around the league as a good football coach. With that being said, its a results based business and theres been plenty of coaches who are good coaches who get fired, but they all have one thing in common, they did not get the results. Id say Lovie Smith is a hell of a coach, but he got fired ( undeservedly) by Tampa. Did not have to wait a week before he got another gig. Bradley will be coaching for a long time, he is a good coach, whether its in Jacksonville or not, thats to be seen. Del Rio is a hell of a coach, and hes back with another head coaching job.
If Bradley goes 10-6, Jaguars are probably in the playoffs and I think Jacksonville will be thinking about that instead of who will be the head coach. All that matters is getting results, thats what Bradley needs and as long as that happens, he will be coaching in Jacksonville. Its pretty simple actually, make or break year for him, win and he stays, lose and hes out. 10-6 and I think the whole town will love him.
Quote:Let's say he goes 10-6 and we win the division to make the playoffs. Will you think Bradley is a good coach?
NO! If the Jags have a top 8 defense, I think he will be a good coach. Unfortunately this clown is always #26-30. Gus has nothing to do with Blake and A-Rob being the top 2 draft picks in Jags history (yes, ahead of MJD). Gus is actually holding them back by coaching a terrible defense.
Quote:Gus has nothing to do with Blake and A-Rob being the top 2 draft picks in Jags history (yes, ahead of MJD).
There once was this guy named Tony who is clearly the best draft pick in Jags history.
