So now Donald Trump wants to tell the NRA that he supports a gun ban on the no-fly list an arbitrary list that no one knows how to get on or off of that can be used to put any citizen for any reason and he thinks this is an acceptable measure of gun control no thank you mr. Trump
I'm not sure why anyone would be even remotely surprised by this. This guy has no core beliefs that aren't up for negotiation.
He must have opened his window to see which way the wind is blowing.
Agree if you are on the no-fly list for certain things, but maybe not because you berated a rude flight attendant or ripped a nasty one in the jet way line.
Lets start with the FBI watch list first...
Also, link?
So is this move by trump a deal breaker for any libertarian or conservative? I'm honestly curious
Quote:Agree if you are on the no-fly list for certain things, but maybe not because you berated a rude flight attendant or ripped a nasty one in the jet way line.
Lets start with the FBI watch list first...
Also, link?
At work on the cell sure someone can link it it's all over the radio.
Quote:Agree if you are on the no-fly list for certain things, but maybe not because you berated a rude flight attendant or ripped a nasty one in the jet way line.
Lets start with the FBI watch list first...
Also, link?
The point is the list isn't something that can be used to justify revoking constitutional rights. What stops them from putting political dissidents on the list? PTSD? Political activist? Militia members? Hell once you set the precedent all you need is to make a list created, monitored, and maintained by the government with no due process you've given up all protection.
You'd be better off with a straight up long rifle ban than this. That's how bad that idea is. What worries me is either Trump is ignorant to this or he understands it and still supports it. I'm not sure which is worse?
Quote:Agree if you are on the no-fly list for certain things, but maybe not because you berated a rude flight attendant or ripped a nasty one in the jet way line.
Lets start with the FBI watch list first...
Also, link?
There are people who have mistakenly ended up on the no fly list, and those who were added for silly reasons that are hardly terrorist in nature.
Getting off that list once you're on it for valid reasons or not is extremely difficult.
This was some straw man that Obama threw out there several months ago, and now Trump is embracing it as a good idea.
Now, if they're on the Terror Watch List, that should raise flags, but the no fly list? Nah.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics...-1.2674662
Quote:What worries me is either Trump is ignorant to this or he understands it and still supports it. I'm not sure which is worse?
"Either he doesn't get it, or he gets it better than anyone else."- Donald Trump
what we need is strict gun control like France has because as we can see, a place like Paris is immune to these attacks.
Quote:what we need is strict gun control like France has because as we can see, a place like Paris is immune to these attacks.
Of course terror isn't a problem Europe in at all
Unless he has released a statement or commented on radio/television about it, he hasn't said he was doing anything regarding gun control. This was his tweet:
"I will be meeting with the NRA, who has endorsed me, about not allowing people on the terrorist watch list, or the no fly list, to buy guns."
That's it. He literally just stated he was having a meeting. The NRA came out with a statement afterwards stating:
"We are happy to meet with Donald Trump. The NRA's position on this issue has not changed. The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing."
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160615...watchlists
NYTimes:
<p class="">"A spokeswoman for Mr. Trump confirmed that he met with Mr. Cox in New York on Tuesday, though the terror watch list was not on the agenda.
<p class="">Mr. Trump’s campaign did not clarify Wednesday how far his proposal would go or articulate which of the dueling measures — Mr. Cornyn’s or Ms. Feinstein’s — Mr. Trump most agrees with."
"As he has after other mass shootings, Mr. Trump said Wednesday that more gun ownership was the answer, not less. He said that the carnage could have been minimized “if some of those great people that were in that club that night had guns strapped to their waist or strapped to their ankle, and if the bullets were going in the other direction.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/16/us/pol...l-nra.html
I know you are better than that, Eric. Read and understand your sources, be aware of spinning. Wait for an actual statement from Trump on this :thumbsup: .
Quote:So is this move by trump a deal breaker for any libertarian or conservative? I'm honestly curious
100%. Using "mystery lists" to regulate society and exert control from the shadows is a policy Stalin would have been proud of.
Quote:There are people who have mistakenly ended up on the no fly list, and those who were added for silly reasons that are hardly terrorist in nature.
Getting off that list once you're on it for valid reasons or not is extremely difficult.
This was some straw man that Obama threw out there several months ago, and now Trump is embracing it as a good idea.
Now, if they're on the Terror Watch List, that should raise flags, but the no fly list? Nah.
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-meet-nra-not-letting-terror-list-people-buy-guns-article-1.2674662'>http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-meet-nra-not-letting-terror-list-people-buy-guns-article-1.2674662</a>
If you're going to strip someone if their constitutional rights, they damn well better be told why and given a chance to contest that decision in front of a jury of their peers. If that means divulging that Kareem is on the terror watchlist because he used TOR to visit an ISIS sympathizer site and sent 5 bitcoin to the Osama bin Laden Academy in Islamabad, then that's on the government to explain and prove, and I don't give two [BLEEP] if revealing that the feds can track TOR usage and bitcoin movement "weakens national security." Individual rights as guaranteed by the Constitution outweigh all other concerns, because without them, America becomes the USSR.
Quote:This guy has no core beliefs that aren't up for negotiation.
Kind of what I want in a politician, this bipartisan crap has gotten us no where, we need a person who can compromise which I'm not sure Trump is but at the moment neither party is willing to compromise and its a problem
Quote:If you're going to strip someone if their constitutional rights, they damn well better be told why and given a chance to contest that decision in front of a jury of their peers. If that means divulging that Kareem is on the terror watchlist because he used TOR to visit an ISIS sympathizer site and sent 5 bitcoin to the Osama bin Laden Academy in Islamabad, then that's on the government to explain and prove, and I don't give two [BAD WORD REMOVED] if revealing that the feds can track TOR usage and bitcoin movement "weakens national security." Individual rights as guaranteed by the Constitution outweigh all other concerns, because without them, America becomes the USSR.
CIA/FBI/XXX would never reveal that they can track TOR because its actually a honeypot. C'mon son! Also, if they told you, then you would stop doing your suspicious activity, or try and hide it better, and they would lose their lead. There isn't a way around this other than to say banning terror watchlist suspects from buying guns is a bad idea. They need to get better at connecting the dots and making moves. Personally, I believe political correctness is stopping agents from doing their jobs.
Quote:CIA/FBI/XXX would never reveal that they can track TOR because its actually a honeypot. C'mon son! Also, if they told you, then you would stop doing your suspicious activity, or try and hide it better, and they would lose their lead. There isn't a way around this other than to say banning terror watchlist suspects from buying guns is a bad idea. They need to get better at connecting the dots and making moves. Personally, I believe political correctness is stopping agents from doing their jobs.
Political correctness and the Bill of Rights are mutually exclusive concepts in my scenario. If Kareem is going to shoot up a mall, stop him from buying guns, but be ready to explain in court exactly how you know he's going to do it. The Second and Fourth Amendments are crapped on in Trump's scenario.
Quote:The Second and Fourth Amendments are crapped on in Trump's scenario.
What is Trump's scenario? He put out a tweet saying he was going to have a meeting about the topic everyone else was talking about with the most anti-gun-control lobbying force in the world, who probably told him stay the course (the course being extremely anti-gun-control, which he has been this entire election). Until he has specifically said he was going to bar people on terror watchlists from purchasing guns, I don't understand where people are getting this idea that he has changed positions. Is it the media planting this false idea? Yes. Yes it is.
Quote:What is Trump's scenario? He put out a tweet saying he was going to have a meeting about the topic everyone else was talking about with the most anti-gun-control lobbying force in the world, who probably told him stay the course (the course being extremely anti-gun-control, which he has been this entire election). Until he has specifically said he was going to bar people on terror watchlists from purchasing guns, I don't understand where people are getting this idea that he has changed positions. Is it the media planting this false idea? Yes. Yes it is.
No, it's not. Trump wants to strip Americans of their rights with no oversight or accountability based upon a mysterious, hidden list. So does Obama and, presumably, Clinton. If that concept doesn't terrify you, then by all means, enjoy your RFID chip and your star.