https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLnhSl1ajyc
This is from awhile back, but I just want to hear people's opinions about this. Does the young man have a point about his constitutional rights being violated? if so, could he sue the officer's involved in this video?
As a former law enforcement officer myself, I can say this. When he challenges the officer and refuses to follow instructions, then it not only raises suspicion, but will cause the officers to give him a hard time. I would say that his "abnormal behavior" (refusing to roll his window down all the way, questioning the officer's directions to pull off to the side, etc.) gives the officer probable cause to think that he might be hiding something. When his question about "am I being detained" when the officer asked him to pull to the side is also an "alarm bell" to officers. That's simply not what "normal" people do.
If you ask me, I don't think that his Constitutional rights were violated at all.
The bottom line is, this looks like a "setup" to post a youtube video.
He is not required to answer questions, especially about his destination or what he may have consumed. He only needed to ask, "Officer are you REQUIRING me to testify against myself?" If the answer is "yes", it's a clear 5th Amendment violation and possible lawsuit. If the answer is "no", then do not answer questions. Provide license and registration if asked. Do not answer questions or unlock the door. Don't make statements or cite laws or rights. The only legitimate reason for you to talk is to ask the simple questions, "Am I being detained?" or "Am I free to go?" They either have to let you go or make up a false reason to detain you, which is another possible lawsuit.
TL
R, all cops are liars, and many cops are scum. They don't ask questions to make conversation. They ask questions because you are a criminal who owes the state some of your time and a lot of your money, and idiots who don't know and exercise their rights perpetuate that system. Don't cooperate with terrorists. Answering questions in general, but certainly at an unlawful checkpoint, detainment, questioning or stop, is no better than handing Hitler your birth certificate and asking for a star.
#Godwin
#butitstrue
#Giveitafewmoreyears
It's not quite that bad, but the deck is stacked because the cop can lie endlessly but if the driver says one false or misleading statement it can and will be used against him. Note that in my answer above, the driver did not answer questions and did not make any declarative statements, but only asked a few questions.
Quote:As a former law enforcement officer myself, I can say this. When he challenges the officer and refuses to follow instructions, then it not only raises suspicion, but will cause the officers to give him a hard time. I would say that his "abnormal behavior" (refusing to roll his window down all the way, questioning the officer's directions to pull off to the side, etc.) gives the officer probable cause to think that he might be hiding something. When his question about "am I being detained" when the officer asked him to pull to the side is also an "alarm bell" to officers. That's simply not what "normal" people do.
If you ask me, I don't think that his Constitutional rights were violated at all.
The bottom line is, this looks like a "setup" to post a youtube video.
No, it's called exercising the rights that we, as Americans, are granted to not be subject to search, seizure and inquisition while traveling from point A to point B. I do it every time I come in contact with an officer, regardless of context. I don't answer questions, I don't consent to this interaction, am I free to go? Lather, rinse, repeat.
FWIW, I've never made a YouTube video of any interaction with a cop, even the time that piece of human excrement in South Dakota stopped me admittedly because I was a single male driving an out-of-state car, told me that if I really wanted him to, he could come up with a reason for the stop, then threatened me repeatedly because I refused to grant him permission to search my car. Cops are trained to lie and trick you into compliance by any means necessary, including intimidation and unlawful conduct.
All cops are liars. It's in their blood.
He should have asked to see the cops badge and then asked the cop to call a supervisor to the scene, although that probably wouldn't have gone over well, even if it was within his rights to do.
Of course DUI checkpionts violate constitutional rights all the time every day.
That said you have to pick your battles and when I approach one I suppress my inner anarchist and comply with the officers directions.
I wonder how long he would have been able to remain in his car if he was African American?
"I don't want to answer any questions"
That kind of reminded me of Lynch and his "I'm just here so I don't get fined"
Quote:I wonder how long he would have been able to remain in his car if he was African American?
Depends on how long it takes them to break the window, shoot the taser and drag him out.
Quote:As a former law enforcement officer myself, I can say this. When he challenges the officer and refuses to follow instructions, then it not only raises suspicion, but will cause the officers to give him a hard time. I would say that his "abnormal behavior" (refusing to roll his window down all the way, questioning the officer's directions to pull off to the side, etc.) gives the officer probable cause to think that he might be hiding something. When his question about "am I being detained" when the officer asked him to pull to the side is also an "alarm bell" to officers. That's simply not what "normal" people do.
If you ask me, I don't think that his Constitutional rights were violated at all.
The bottom line is, this looks like a "setup" to post a youtube video.
Everything in that video is a 4th Amendment violation. Cops should NEVER be permitted to stop random people and search them whether driving, walking, or entering a public place like the airport or stadium.
Quote:It's not quite that bad, but the deck is stacked because the cop can lie endlessly but if the driver says one false or misleading statement it can and will be used against him. Note that in my answer above, the driver did not answer questions and did not make any declarative statements, but only asked a few questions.
Wrong, you dont say anything. Even good cops can misremember what you say.
Quote:Everything in that video is a 4th Amendment violation. Cops should NEVER be permitted to stop random people and search them whether driving, walking, or entering a public place like the airport or stadium.
^This.
Quote:As a former law enforcement officer myself, I can say this. When he challenges the officer and refuses to follow instructions, then it not only raises suspicion, but will cause the officers to give him a hard time. I would say that his "abnormal behavior" (refusing to roll his window down all the way, questioning the officer's directions to pull off to the side, etc.) gives the officer probable cause to think that he might be hiding something. When his question about "am I being detained" when the officer asked him to pull to the side is also an "alarm bell" to officers. That's simply not what "normal" people do.
If you ask me, I don't think that his Constitutional rights were violated at all.
The bottom line is, this looks like a "setup" to post a youtube video.
Granted, this was an instance of a smart aleck kid who wanted to make a youtube video. I got that. he could have made it a lot easier if he stated directly that "I am not required by law" to roll my window down etc. etc. etc.
That being said... (unless the kid was wrong about any of his assertions) Correct understanding of the law can never be used as probable cause to believe a crime has been committed.
Quote:Granted, this was an instance of a smart aleck kid who wanted to make a youtube video. I got that. he could have made it a lot easier if he stated directly that "I am not required by law" to roll my window down etc. etc. etc.
That being said... (unless the kid was wrong about any of his assertions) Correct understanding of the law can never be used as probable cause to believe a crime has been committed.
How dare you think you have rights citizen. Now, out'a the car Longhair!
Quote:Of course DUI checkpionts violate constitutional rights all the time every day.
That said you have to pick your battles and when I approach one I suppress my inner anarchist and comply with the officers directions.
Right. Comply with them first, then sue them later in court.
Quote:Right. Comply with them first, then sue them later in court.
That's horrible advice. When you comply, you waive your rights. As soon as you are detained, you are in "custodial arrest" and the rules just changed. Did you know they changed? Do you know how to proceed under "custodial arrest"?
Quote:Right. Comply with them first, then sue them later in court.
Well the way that I see it is different than most of the posters in this thread. However, I look at it from a different perspective.
Technically speaking (in my opinion) the officer is conducting a criminal investigation (DUI). Many people don't realize how powerful the odor of someone who has been drinking is when they open their car window completely. The officer started the interaction professionally and politely when he asked the guy to roll his window down. When the guy starts refusing, it immediately raises suspicion that he is attempting to hide something. If he simply follows the officer's request, he would be on his way in less than 30 seconds (assuming he doesn't appear to be or smell like he is intoxicated).
Another thing to consider is a traffic stop/checkpoint falls under State Law. I would think that every state probably has a "failure to comply" law regarding not following law enforcement instructions during the enforcement or investigation of a crime. The idiot driver in this video could have and should have been charged with that (in my opinion) simply because he was trying to provoke the LEO's.
Law Enforcement Officers have a tough and stressful enough job as it is. Idiot punks like the driver in the video shouldn't make their job harder.
Quote:Everything in that video is a 4th Amendment violation. Cops should NEVER be permitted to stop random people and search them whether driving, walking, or entering a public place like the airport or stadium.
This whole thing kind of reminds me an incident that happened in Tallahassee about 15 years ago...
A few key facts. I was living in Maryland at the time and got ironically sent to Tallahassee for work. It's ironic because I was born and raised in Tallahassee but left when I was 13 (I'm now 41). Anyway, I worked for a government contractor and had just picked my wire transfer for my weekly per diem and decided I wanted to take a walk to Sun Trust, which was about half a mile from where I was staying, to deposit it. As I'm walking from the hotel to the bank, a cop car pulls up onto the curb in front of the capital building and a cop gets out shining a light in my face (it's about 8pm or so and getting dark).
He asks me where I'm going and I tell him to the bank to make a deposit. He asks for my license and since I have a MD license he asks what I'm doing there, I tell him I'm there for work and that I'm staying at the hotel a few blocks back. He doesn't seem to like my answer since he asked me three different times during the course of our interaction why I was there and at the end he mentioned that a local business had been robbed and that I fit the description of the perp...which turned out to be [BLEEP] because they caught the guy 2 hours later and he was 4" taller and about 100 lbs heavier than I am. The only commonality was that I happen to be a black male within a 3 mile radius from where the robbery occurred. He ran my license, which took entirely too long considering there's nothing on my record and seemed genuinely saddened he didn't have anything to hem me up on. He even followed me to the bank and watched me make my deposit from his car before driving off.
I'd never had much of an opinion on cops before as I'd never really had to deal with them but that incident, to this very day, makes me inherently not trust a word that comes out of a cop's mouth as it pertains to the investigation of an actual crime. It's tales like mine that make people not trust the police. I'm sure there are good cops out there who genuinely want to defend citizens, uphold the law and help people...but I can't help but think they are in the minority.