Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:When it's in Cleveland, that sounds pretty good.

 

What I'm getting at is that the only argument people have for keeping Bradley is the "Belicheck" argument. Gus isn't Bill.

Actually... my argument has centered around a different HC...

 

Marvin Lewis. Once upon a time.... not too long ago, Lewis' seat was the hottest in the league. Well, depending on who you asked in the media.

The fans had pitchforks out and they were flaming.

 

Patience from the top allowed a rebuild of their roster. And so is Marvin Lewis a good coach or bad coach? He's won and lost a bunch. And while he may not have had 3 straight losing seasons, he also never had a roster as bare.

Caldwell handicapped Gus. And Caldwell has even admitted mistakes in his first year.

 

The argument I've always made is that coaches matter, just way less than the talent.

The GM is the most important position. Now that the GM has tore down and rebuilt the roster it's the coaches job to develop the talent and win with it.

 

 

I don't want to hear "X" coach could have won more with this team.

You don't KNOW that. Nobody knows that sort of stuff.

 

Here's the thing... does anyone really think that if Gus Bradley had coached last year's Broncos they would have missed the playoffs or something? The team went to the SB... even after their HC (Or Elway) almost bumbled the whole QB situation.

 

Maybe Gus keeps Osweiler in..... and maybe for that, they don't win the SB....maybe... but that's random guessing.

Fact is, Denver was a pretty complete team, both sides, aside from an aging QB issue and a lack of a run game at times... and that is why they win a bunch. And that is why they won the SB.

 

Not because John Fox isn't there and Gary Kubiak is......

cuz if you recall... not too long ago, Kubiak was the HC of the ever-often-average tinhorns.

Quote:Funny how a lot of these things are improving with the talent.

 

Bottom line though, Bradley needs to win this year.

Couldn't agree more with the bolded.

Quote:Actually... my argument has centered around a different HC...

 

Marvin Lewis. Once upon a time.... not too long ago, Lewis' seat was the hottest in the league. Well, depending on who you asked in the media.

The fans had pitchforks out and they were flaming.

 

Patience from the top allowed a rebuild of their roster. And so is Marvin Lewis a good coach or bad coach? He's won and lost a bunch. And while he may not have had 3 straight losing seasons, he also never had a roster as bare.

Caldwell handicapped Gus. And Caldwell has even admitted mistakes in his first year.

 

The argument I've always made is that coaches matter, just way less than the talent.

The GM is the most important position. Now that the GM has tore down and rebuilt the roster it's the coaches job to develop the talent and win with it.

 

 

I don't want to hear "X" coach could have won more with this team.

You don't KNOW that. Nobody knows that sort of stuff.

 

Here's the thing... does anyone really think that if Gus Bradley had coached last year's Broncos they would have missed the playoffs or something? The team went to the SB... even after their HC (Or Elway) almost bumbled the whole QB situation.

 

Maybe Gus keeps Osweiler in..... and maybe for that, they don't win the SB....maybe... but that's random guessing.

Fact is, Denver was a pretty complete team, both sides, aside from an aging QB issue and a lack of a run game at times... and that is why they win a bunch. And that is why they won the SB.

 

Not because John Fox isn't there and Gary Kubiak is......

cuz if you recall... not too long ago, Kubiak was the HC of the ever-often-average tinhorns.

Marvin Lewis is nothing like Gus.

 

Gus has won 12 games. Lewis went 8-8, 8-8, 11-5 in his first 3 seasons. People want Gus gone because he hasn't won. Firing Lewis is a completely different argument because he hasn't taken them to the next level which is winning playoff games.

 

You can't compare the two.

Frailbones, sturdily owning...

Quote:Marvin Lewis is nothing like Gus.

 

Gus has won 12 games. Lewis went 8-8, 8-8, 11-5 in his first 3 seasons. People want Gus gone because he hasn't won. Firing Lewis is a completely different argument because he hasn't taken them to the next level which is winning playoff games.

 

You can't compare the two.

I was speaking of Lewis' time in between Palmer in his prime and getting Dalton. There were dark years. Lewis had success early because of a good team. And witnessed 3 .500 and below seasons in a row following the 3 years you speak of. Had an up year and a real bad year.

Got Dalton and a few other pieces and back in it....

 

Like I said... different rosters, different roads...

but the point is... you can't fault a coach for not having talent on the field.

 

If Gus can't win with this current team, I agree he's not very good at getting the most of his players.

But in seasons past, he's had no ammo.

Quote:Frailbones, sturdily owning...

stroke em up lol

Quote:I was speaking of Lewis' time in between Palmer in his prime and getting Dalton. There were dark years. Lewis had success early because of a good team. And witnessed 3 .500 and below seasons in a row following the 3 years you speak of. Had an up year and a real bad year.

Got Dalton and a few other pieces and back in it....

 

Like I said... different rosters, different roads...

but the point is... you can't fault a coach for not having talent on the field.

 

If Gus can't win with this current team, I agree he's not very good at getting the most of his players.

But in seasons past, he's had no ammo.

Do you have confidence in Gus to get the job done?

Quote:Do you have confidence in Gus to get the job done?

Can't speak for him but I certainly do.

Hey if he hits on 3 out of every 4 drafts i'll take that every time.

Quote:First of all, comparing the NFL to the NBA is not exactly apples to apples.


Were the Jaguars good during the Tom Coughlin era because of Tom Coughlin?

Yes ... Partially.. U see what happen when he left.

Quote:Actually... my argument has centered around a different HC...


Marvin Lewis. Once upon a time.... not too long ago, Lewis' seat was the hottest in the league. Well, depending on who you asked in the media.

The fans had pitchforks out and they were flaming.


Patience from the top allowed a rebuild of their roster. And so is Marvin Lewis a good coach or bad coach? He's won and lost a bunch. And while he may not have had 3 straight losing seasons, he also never had a roster as bare.

Caldwell handicapped Gus. And Caldwell has even admitted mistakes in his first year.


The argument I've always made is that coaches matter, just way less than the talent.

The GM is the most important position. Now that the GM has tore down and rebuilt the roster it's the coaches job to develop the talent and win with it.



I don't want to hear "X" coach could have won more with this team.

You don't KNOW that. Nobody knows that sort of stuff.


Here's the thing... does anyone really think that if Gus Bradley had coached last year's Broncos they would have missed the playoffs or something? The team went to the SB... even after their HC (Or Elway) almost bumbled the whole QB situation.


Maybe Gus keeps Osweiler in..... and maybe for that, they don't win the SB....maybe... but that's random guessing.

Fact is, Denver was a pretty complete team, both sides, aside from an aging QB issue and a lack of a run game at times... and that is why they win a bunch. And that is why they won the SB.


Not because John Fox isn't there and Gary Kubiak is......

cuz if you recall... not too long ago, Kubiak was the HC of the ever-often-average tinhorns.

Good Point...

Quote:Yes ... Partially.. U see what happen when he left.

After he left we didn't have back to back to back losing seasons again for a decade. Must be because we found better coaches right?

 

Even the great Coughlin couldn't win with a roster lacking talent.

Quote:Yes ... Partially.. U see what happen when he left.

Well, the team returned to winning and playoff contention.

Quote:After he left we didn't have back to back to back losing seasons again for a decade. Must be because we found better coaches right?

 

Even the great Coughlin couldn't win with a roster lacking talent.

Not quite.

 

Coughlin left after the 2002 season.  The Jaguars had losing seasons in 2008 & 2009.

 

But your larger points of the team returning to winning football after he left, and TC not being able to win without talent remains intact.

Quote:Not quite.

 

Coughlin left after the 2002 season.  The Jaguars had losing seasons in 2008 & 2009.

 

But your larger points of the team returning to winning football after he left, and TC not being able to win without talent remains intact.

 

Yep, that is correct.

 

Here is the Jags record year by year.

 

What is really sad to me is that the Jags have only won the division twice in their history, back to back in 1998 and 1999. I know P. Manning had a LOT to do with that, but still, only twice in 20 years.

 

Heck, we haven't even finished in 2nd place since we went 8-8 in 2010, which coincidentally was the last time the Jags did not finish the season with double-digit losses.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/jax/

I think really the only people you could compare him too is Rivera an maybe Marvin Lewis but like someone above said lewis was ok at first with Palmer ocho n housh got poop then turned it around where as Rivera sucked it up they stuck with him an now look at em

Quote:I think really the only people you could compare him too is Rivera an maybe Marvin Lewis but like someone above said lewis was ok at first with Palmer ocho n housh got poop then turned it around where as Rivera sucked it up they stuck with him an now look at em

 

Exactly.

 

:blink:

Quote:I think really the only people you could compare him too is Rivera an maybe Marvin Lewis but like someone above said lewis was ok at first with Palmer ocho n housh got poop then turned it around where as Rivera sucked it up they stuck with him an now look at em

Rivera?

 

6-10

7-9

12-4

 

Those were his first 3 seasons after they had the worst record in the NFL and drafted Cam...... They also played in a division with the Saints and Falcons who were winning 10+ games. If Rivera "sucked it up" then what do you call what Gus has done?

 

You literally can not compare Gus to anyone on any team. He has had one of the worst records to start a HC career in history. This isn't to say he can't turn it around but don't try to compare him to any other HC.

Quote:Not quite.

 

Coughlin left after the 2002 season.  The Jaguars had losing seasons in 2008 & 2009.

 

But your larger points of the team returning to winning football after he left, and TC not being able to win without talent remains intact.

I said back to back to back. That didn't happen until 2011, 2012, 2013. 10 years after Coughlin left.

Quote:Yep, that is correct.

 

Here is the Jags record year by year.

 

What is really sad to me is that the Jags have only won the division twice in their history, back to back in 1998 and 1999. I know P. Manning had a LOT to do with that, but still, only twice in 20 years.

 

Heck, we haven't even finished in 2nd place since we went 8-8 in 2010, which coincidentally was the last time the Jags did not finish the season with double-digit losses.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/jax/

That is sad, indeed.

 

I suspect, however, times may be changing.