Quote:I think there is enough depth there for a rotation:
RE - Yannick, Fowler, Skuta
LE - Calais, Malik, Abry, Fowler (pass down)
*DT - Malik, Abry, Day, Calais
*I am listing them all as DTs, as I don't believe we have a true NT and as such I think the team will kind of deviate from what we've run under Gus in that regard.
Last season, Cyp led the team in snaps at 1070. Let's assume that 1070 is a "full" season snap at one position, which gives us a total of 4280 snaps for the front four positions. Malik played 717 snaps last season. Calais played 830. If we actually go with a full platoon of 6 or 7 guys (Yannick, Fowler, Malik, Abry, Calais, Day, rookie DE or DT), that gives us 611 snaps each.
We still have Bennett (to rotate at DT), and Woodard to rotate at LE, though both are long shots.
We still have 8 draft picks this year. With how this team has loaded in FA, there's really not a lot of "clear" starters coming out of this draft. Plenty of picks to go around to bring in a rotation guy either at end or DT.
There's really not a huge need to spend a top 4 pick on that 6th guy in the rotation. Would it be a great luxury for the future? Absolutely. But point is, there's plenty of picks for this team to fill that depth.
Skuta hasn't been good and Day still is a bit of an unknown at this point.
Maybe it's not an extreme need, but it's still a need. And now's the time to take elite d-lineman, since we shouldn't in theory be having a top 5 pick for much longer, and if we do i'ts because we need a QB. Campbell isn't super young, so it's a solid move to get more d-lineman.
Quote:Skuta hasn't been good and Day still is a bit of an unknown at this point.
Maybe it's not an extreme need, but it's still a need. And now's the time to take elite d-lineman, since we shouldn't in theory be having a top 5 pick for much longer, and if we do i'ts because we need a QB. Campbell isn't super young, so it's a solid move to get more d-lineman.
Skuta at best is our 7th guy. Which is why I didn't really factor him in. He'll likely be replaced by a rookie in this draft class. If you are drafting the 6th guy in a four-man rotation, that is no longer a need. Yes, Calais will be 31 (or 32?).
But on paper, there's many teams in the NFL who would love our top 5 of Yannick/Fowler/Malik/Calais/Abry with Day as the 6th guy in the rotation. Those teams have a "need" at DL.
We do not.
Quote:Skuta hasn't been good and Day still is a bit of an unknown at this point.
Maybe it's not an extreme need, but it's still a need. And now's the time to take elite d-lineman, since we shouldn't in theory be having a top 5 pick for much longer, and if we do i'ts because we need a QB. Campbell isn't super young, so it's a solid move to get more d-lineman.
I haven't seen anyone against picking an elite dlineman at 4. The bigger question is if there will be one at 4. Thomas off the board 2/3 almost every mock now, and Allen has some serious injury, size, and athletic issues.
Quote:Skuta at best is our 7th guy. Which is why I didn't really factor him in. He'll likely be replaced by a rookie in this draft class. If you are drafting the 6th guy in a four-man rotation, that is no longer a need. Yes, Calais will be 31 (or 32?).
But on paper, there's many teams in the NFL who would love our top 5 of Yannick/Fowler/Malik/Calais/Abry with Day as the 6th guy in the rotation. Those teams have a "need" at DL.
We do not.
Defensive lineman that can get after the QB is an elite position. Unless you have the most dominant and deep line in the league, you shouldn't ever pass on that unless there's another elite position you have a much bigger need at with a comparably graded prospect. Fowler could put up a dud next year and be a bust, Yannick could have a sophomore slump, Calais could be a bust signing, Day may not develop, etc. There's so many unknowns and that guy we draft could potentially go from being our "6th guy" to a top 3 guy on our line. I mean, you're not drafting a guy 4th overall and expect him to be the bottom of the depth chart, right?
Quote:I haven't seen anyone against picking an elite dlineman at 4. The bigger question is if there will be one at 4. Thomas off the board 2/3 almost every mock now, and Allen has some serious injury, size, and athletic issues.
That really is the question. There may not be one there at 4, making it a difficult spot for us.
4th overall is a bad spot for us this year tbh. Our biggest needs aren't worth the pick. I'd take Malik and be happy.
Quote:I haven't seen anyone against picking an elite dlineman at 4. The bigger question is if there will be one at 4. Thomas off the board 2/3 almost every mock now, and Allen has some serious injury, size, and athletic issues.
Yeah NOW Allen has athletic and size issues? Ok before the combine you pumped him out as a great prospect besides rumors of a secret third surgery...
You said you watched plenty of him and he was an elite talent minus the injury concerns. But now he is a bad athlete with questionable size. What a joke.
Quote:That really is the question. There may not be one there at 4, making it a difficult spot for us.
Agree
I think Thomas goes 2nd or 3rd. If Allen's medicals check out he will probably go 2nd or 3rd as well. If he doesn't their is clearly concern with his shoulders.
Quote:Yeah NOW Allen has athletic and size issues? Ok before the combine you pumped him out as a great prospect besides rumors of a secret third surgery...
You said you watched plenty of him and he was an elite talent minus the injury concerns. But now he is a bad athlete with questionable size. What a joke.
Only here will you hear horror stories about Allen and how his arms are about to fall off.
Coming from the same source that told you Geno Smith should have been the pick at #2 overall.
Quote:Defensive lineman that can get after the QB is an elite position. Unless you have the most dominant and deep line in the league, you shouldn't ever pass on that unless there's another elite position you have a much bigger need at with a comparably graded prospect. Fowler could put up a dud next year and be a bust, Yannick could have a sophomore slump, Calais could be a bust signing, Day may not develop, etc. There's so many unknowns and that guy we draft could potentially go from being our "6th guy" to a top 3 guy on our line. I mean, you're not drafting a guy 4th overall and expect him to be the bottom of the depth chart, right?
1. Defensive lineman that can get after QB = not John Allen. And shoulder issues aside, I love me some Allen. But we're not passing on JPP potential here.
2. What's your definition of "elite" position? Because I don't view Allen, who IMO will be an LDE in our team, an "elite" position. And one who will rotate at that until Calais/Malik fall off.
3. Bigger need? There's no bigger need in this team than a TE who can run block AND catch. We have a couple of guys who can block but can't get open (Lewis/Koyack) or guys who can catch/run but not good blockers (Sterling and now Rivera). Having a guy who can do both and thus not tip the defense what our tendencies are is a tremendous need, IMO.
4. I'll argue that Howard is a comparably graded prospect to Allen if you take away positional value.
Here's some perspective on OJ.
Mike Evans has been Winston's #1 (and #2 and #3) target in Tampa.
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mike...id=2543468
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/o...id=2557856
Aside from vert (and longer arms), OJ beats Evans in every single athletic category.
That's in a 6'6 251 lb TE as opposed to Evans 6'5 235 lb WR.
When you factor in that OJ is already an accomplished blocker, it really makes you wonder how a creative OC can use him in an offense.
Think about adding an Evans-like weapon to this offense who could also anchor a run game.
That's the potential of Howard.
Quote:Here's some perspective on OJ.
Mike Evans has been Winston's #1 (and #2 and #3) target in Tampa.
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mike-evans?id=2543468'>http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mike-evans?id=2543468</a>
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/o.j.-howard?id=2557856'>http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/o.j.-howard?id=2557856</a>
Aside from vert (and longer arms), OJ beats Evans in every single athletic category.
That's in a 6'6 251 lb TE as opposed to Evans 6'5 235 lb WR.
When you factor in that OJ is already an accomplished blocker, it really makes you wonder how a creative OC can use him in an offense.
Think about adding an Evans-like weapon to this offense who could also anchor a run game.
That's the potential of Howard.
He has great potential. The problem is that a lot of prospects do and we can't draft them all.
Really as fans we don't know the whole story to any prospect, but we all have guys we like and guys we don't like.
That's as far as it goes though. We have to trust that the team weighs in all variables and makes the best decision.
Even the best teams miss. It isn't an exact science. No matter how well prepared and informed you are, the player could bust. It's a gamble no matter who you are.
trade back and grab OJ and Dalvin
Quote:Only here will you hear horror stories about Allen and how his arms are about to fall off.
Coming from the same source that told you Geno Smith should have been the pick at #2 overall.
Two lies in one post. Good job.
Quote:Only here will you hear horror stories about Allen and how his arms are about to fall off.
Coming from the same source that told you Geno Smith should have been the pick at #2 overall.
Hes had two shoulder surgeries and had arthritis confirmed at the combine before playing an NFL snap. This is not the only place people are talking about it.
Quote:He has great potential. The problem is that a lot of prospects do and we can't draft them all.
Really as fans we don't know the whole story to any prospect, but we all have guys we like and guys we don't like.
That's as far as it goes though. We have to trust that the team weighs in all variables and makes the best decision.
Even the best teams miss. It isn't an exact science. No matter how well prepared and informed you are, the player could bust. It's a gamble no matter who you are.
It's not, and there's no one way to draft. Teams have swung for the fences and won. Teams have also drafted "base hits" and won. But the point of this board is to discuss these types of things even if we won't know for another few years whether we are right or wrong.
You definitely don't have to sell me on Howard, I'd be fine with him at 4 depending who gets picked in front of us.
Quote:Hes had two shoulder surgeries and had arthritis confirmed at the combine before playing an NFL snap. This is not the only place people are talking about it.
Here is the only place anyone is scared about it. My point stands, as it always has. But you can ignore that again if you like.
Quote:Here is the only place anyone is scared about it. My point stands, as it always has. But you can ignore that again if you like.
You really think no one is scared about it? You really think NFL teams have zero concern over a guy getting two surgeries in his shoulders as a dlineman? Im not sure how you can come to that conclusion.