Besides the QBs I think this year will fall flat at the top personally.
Not to say I think everyone is a bust but I think people like Bosa, Tunsil and Ramsey are just being pushed so hard. I believe they'll have good careers but not superstars.
I almost feel like someone like Lawson or Hargreaves might end up having the better career because they seem to be lesser valued picks than some of the others. Which is odd to say considering they are all considered top 10 or even top 5 players.
If I pick one overrated/bust player I might just go Buckner. and one stud Jack. Time will tell.
Quote:Thats where I differ in several games had issues with speedy wideouts. Hurns burned him bad.
But remember a bust is based on draft pick. Not necc stinks. I dont think ramsey will stink by no means. Just where he fits to justify the pick.
Well thank you for answering my question. I was wondering if Hurns had played against Ramsey, but then again it'd be a junior vs freshmen. I dont see Ramsey excelling at the CB position reminds me a Dee Millner if he played there.
FS/SS I believe he could play both and id say thats pretty rare.
As far as Draft busts;
Calhoun
Darron Lee
Spence aka Randy Gregory Jr.
Wentz
Tunsil
I personally dont hope he is one but Jack.
I feel like his knee could give him issues throughout his career and that's a shame because I believe he will be out pick, so talented, Jags swing and miss on this one.
I don't think Bosa will be a Bust. He may not be a Superstar like JJ Watt,, but I think he'll be good to very good with a career similar to Carlos Dunlap of the Bengals. It took Dunlap 2-3 years to fully develop. Now he is a terific disruptive force with pressure and sacks. He's not a household superstar name, but he is very good.
I think Bosa's career will be similar. Some team is going to get a good, productive player in him.
Quote:I don't think Bosa will be a Bust. He may not be a Superstar like JJ Watt,, but I think he'll be good to very good with a career similar to Carlos Dunlap of the Bengals. It took Dunlap 2-3 years to fully develop. Now he is a terific disruptive force with pressure and sacks. He's not a household superstar name, but he is very good.
I think Bosa's career will be similar. Some team is going to get a good, productive player in him.
I guess the degree of dissonance I have with this post varies on what you mean by "fully develop."
If you mean he wasn't a pass rushing threat for 2-3 years, then I would disagree, because he had 9.5 sacks his rookie year which is a respectable number for just about anyone.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/pl...nlCa99.htm
Now if you mean there were nuances to the game he didn't know or fully appreciate until after his rookie year, then I have less of a problem with it.
Your larger point/analysis about Bosa, however, is on point, I think.
Quote:Silent Jaguar, you and Predator or both on record in this thread indicating Jack will be the bust.
Would you guys mind sharing your rationales for this assessment? If you have already done so in another thread, could you point me to that thread?
To me, I see only two ways he could come close to being a bust:
1. Injury
2. He ends up in a 3-4 scheme and is forced to play a traditional 3-4 ILB without any real credible NT to keep interior OL off of him and they ask him to add 20-25 lbs.
For me the concern is that being such a freak athlete with perfect size and all that speed, he should have been much more productive in college than he was.
People get enamored every year with players with great measurables, but for me it's more about what a player can do with those great measurables, and for Jack, his most productive season with those great measurables only earned him second team all pac-10.
As far as tackles, average. Tackles for a loss, average to maybe slightly above average. Sacks, below average, Coverage, exceptional.These are quality stats for a safety, not for a guy who plays a position that is supposed to be the most disruptive tackler on the field.
I could be wrong but color me skeptical, and color me really skeptical at #5.
Quote:I guess the degree of dissonance I have with this post varies on what you mean by "fully develop."
If you mean he wasn't a pass rushing threat for 2-3 years, then I would disagree, because he had 9.5 sacks his rookie year which is a respectable number for just about anyone.
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DunlCa99.htm'>http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DunlCa99.htm</a>
Now if you mean there were nuances to the game he didn't know or fully appreciate until after his rookie year, then I have less of a problem with it.
Your larger point/analysis about Bosa, however, is on point, I think.
Good post. I'll clarify that I didn't mean to say Dunlap wasn't good immediately, because he was. He has just gotten better over the course of the past few years IMO. I'm not going off of just number totals. Having watched Dunlap alot during his career,, he seems to be a much more consistent force now as compared to early on.
I think Bosa will be a good player with a similar trajectory and production. He'll be good, then get better/more consistent with experience.
That's just my opinion about him. Maybe he'll bust. Maybe he'll be good. Maybe he'll be a JJ Watt caliber player. Who knows? We'll see.
Quote:Silent Jaguar, you and Predator or both on record in this thread indicating Jack will be the bust.
Would you guys mind sharing your rationales for this assessment? If you have already done so in another thread, could you point me to that thread?
To me, I see only two ways he could come close to being a bust:
1. Injury
2. He ends up in a 3-4 scheme and is forced to play a traditional 3-4 ILB without any real credible NT to keep interior OL off of him and they ask him to add 20-25 lbs.
I don't see him being as versatile as everybody's claiming just because he's athletic. Don't think he's a good tackler or pass-rusher, so I pretty much only see him as a 4-3 WLB or a ILB in obvious pass-only situations. Also, I see him having a lot of issues setting the edge against NFL-caliber linemen.
Quote:Good post. I'll clarify that I didn't mean to say Dunlap wasn't good immediately, because he was. He has just gotten better over the course of the past few years IMO. I'm not going off of just number totals. Having watched Dunlap alot during his career,, he seems to be a much more consistent force now as compared to early on.
I think Bosa will be a good player with a similar trajectory and production. He'll be good, then get better/more consistent with experience.
That's just my opinion about him. Maybe he'll bust. Maybe he'll be good. Maybe he'll be a JJ Watt caliber player. Who knows? We'll see.
Bosa doesnt come off the edge like a missle. But is very smart and extremely strong at the point. And has great instincts and vision.
Quote:For me the concern is that being such a freak athlete with perfect size and all that speed, he should have been much more productive in college than he was.
People get enamored every year with players with great measurables, but for me it's more about what a player can do with those great measurables, and for Jack, his most productive season with those great measurables only earned him second team all pac-10.
As far as tackles, average. Tackles for a loss, average to maybe slightly above average. Sacks, below average, Coverage, exceptional.These are quality stats for a safety, not for a guy who plays a position that is supposed to be the most disruptive tackler on the field.
I could be wrong but color me skeptical, and color me really skeptical at #5.
His productivity crossed my mind as a concern
My hypothesis is that the combination of scheme, the way he was used and situations created in a pass happy conference led to numbers that did not necessarily reflect that of a traditional stud LB. How many traditional stud LBs get regularly walked out in man coverage on slot WRs the way Jack did? Admittedly I haven't really had the time to see how much this holds water, so for the purposes of this post I can't say you are wrong at this point.
Based on what I have seen, he doesn't seem to avoid contact the way you might think an undersized LB would. On numerous instances, I've seen him directly challenge guards and centers.
He seems to diagnose well, so I'm not inclined to think at this point he runs himself out of plays. I've seen him sniff out screen passes pretty well, and I think his time as a RB helps him on some plays. I think he has great lateral movement and is good on plays going east and west where he has to pursue. But I want to see more of him in run defense where plays are coming right at him.
Quote:I don't see him being as versatile as everybody's claiming just because he's athletic. Don't think he's a good tackler or pass-rusher, so I pretty much only see him as a 4-3 WLB or a ILB in obvious pass-only situations. Also, I see him having a lot of issues setting the edge against NFL-caliber linemen.
Got it.
I think you and Predator have legit concerns and questions about him and aren't simply "hating" as the kids say these days.
But I do have to ask this question to you: Do you see Luke Kuechly as having any of these problems?
Kuechly is listed at 6-3 242 per profootballreference.com. Myles Jack is 6-1 245.
To me, it seems that many of these concerns you have are a function of his size, but He's not that different in build than the guy seen as the best MLB in the game.
Quote:Good post. I'll clarify that I didn't mean to say Dunlap wasn't good immediately, because he was. He has just gotten better over the course of the past few years IMO. I'm not going off of just number totals. Having watched Dunlap alot during his career,, he seems to be a much more consistent force now as compared to early on.
I think Bosa will be a good player with a similar trajectory and production. He'll be good, then get better/more consistent with experience.
That's just my opinion about him. Maybe he'll bust. Maybe he'll be good. Maybe he'll be a JJ Watt caliber player. Who knows? We'll see.
I will say this about Bosa: I think some are making an analytical mistake by saying that because he isn't a speed rusher, per se, he isn't a good pass rusher.
I think that is a dangerous logical leap. There have been plenty of great pass rushers who weren't speed rushers. J.J. Watt, Reggie White, Michael Strahan, Howie Long, Ed Jones, Charles Mann and many others put plenty of pressure on opposing QBs without being classified as a speed rusher.
No, he doesn't fit the mold of the LEO that we want and need, but it doesn't mean he he won't be an effective pass rusher.
I think without question, he is a better overall prospect than his dad was.
Quote:Got it.
I think you and Predator have legit concerns and questions about him and aren't simply "hating" as the kids say these days.
But I do have to ask this question to you: Do you see Luke Kuechly as having any of these problems?
Kuechly is listed at 6-3 242 per profootballreference.com. Myles Jack is 6-1 245.
To me, it seems that many of these concerns you have are a function of his size, but He's not that different in build than the guy seen as the best MLB in the game.
Size isn't an issue for Jack, it's his production.
Kuechly was uber productive in college. Kuechly's skills translated to the field in a huge way as far as production. Jack's not so much.
It's great that Jack is athletic enough to cover a slot receiver in college, but that's not what he will be doing in the pros. I want my LB to excel at LB things and I'm not so sure that he does, especially not #5 overall sure
Predator...see my post re his production. What do you think of that theory?
Quote:I will say this about Bosa: I think some are making an analytical mistake by saying that because he isn't a speed rusher, per se, he isn't a good pass rusher.
I think that is a dangerous logical leap. There have been plenty of great pass rushers who weren't speed rushers. J.J. Watt, Reggie White, Michael Strahan, Howie Long, Ed Jones, Charles Mann and many others put plenty of pressure on opposing QBs without being classified as a speed rusher.
No, he doesn't fit the mold of the LEO that we want and need, but it doesn't mean he he won't be an effective pass rusher.
I think without question, he is a better overall prospect than his dad was.
Agreed nor was Jason Taylor. Speed only accounts for so much. And alot of times speed rushers are too fast and over time the rush. So instead of getting the sack buy the qb extra time.
Or in brady case does a simple slight rollout and makes speed defenders miss. Same manning was known for.
Quote:Got it.
I think you and Predator have legit concerns and questions about him and aren't simply "hating" as the kids say these days.
But I do have to ask this question to you: Do you see Luke Kuechly as having any of these problems?
Kuechly is listed at 6-3 242 per profootballreference.com. Myles Jack is 6-1 245.
To me, it seems that many of these concerns you have are a function of his size, but He's not that different in build than the guy seen as the best MLB in the game.
Nah, his size is fine. A lot of the time, it seems like he'll see the back in a run play, yet still run himself out of the chance to make the tackle. I normally wouldn't care about him getting blocked on occasion because that's just what happens sometimes, but for every time he holds up a run play by stoning a block from an OL, there's another 3 or 4 plays where he'll see the play developing gong in and he just runs past it. That's something Kuechly never had an issue with coming out because if he missed the tackle it usually never was from lack of effort.