Quote:While I like to disregard the length of his career, this chart really makes the duration really stand out. While I believe he was a better player than Orlando Pace, there's something to be said about lasting 169 regular season games instead of just 91
http://www.footballdb.com/players/tony-b...to01/stats
True.
I would also say Boselli is better than Willie Roaf .
On the same level as Walter Jones & Ogden.
Brunell being up there is a joke.
Mathis, I think, deserves a spot.
Quote:While I like to disregard the length of his career, this chart really makes the duration really stand out. While I believe he was a better player than Orlando Pace, there's something to be said about lasting 169 regular season games instead of just 91
http://www.footballdb.com/players/tony-b...to01/stats
Leon Searcy was just on 1010 XL and said Boselli was the best left tackle he has ever seen and it upsets him that Boselli isn't at least further along in the talks to make the hall of fame. Leon Searcy on his own is a pretty amazing left tackle, and for him to pay a complement like that to Boselli is pretty special. I get the longevity thing, but there are extenuating circumstances. Jim Brown didn't play in the NFL long either.
Quote:Brunell being up there is a joke.
Mathis, I think, deserves a spot.
This is my line of thinking too. If Brunell is up there, Rasean should be too. At some point the play on the field to be extraordinary to be put into the Pride. I get there are two other main factors, but I think those are weighted right now to much (but I do understand why at this point)
From the beginning I felt like the Pride was going to get watered down. I wish they had another way to celebrate these guys like building some sort of all-time Jaguars 53 man roster and have that posted somewhere at the stadium. Then leave the Pride to the true elite guys who played here,
Quote:From the beginning I felt like the Pride was going to get watered down. I wish they had another way to celebrate these guys like building some sort of all-time Jaguars 53 man roster and have that posted somewhere at the stadium. Then leave the Pride to the true elite guys who played here,
Before today nobody ever said a word about Rashean stepping foot into the pride. It was always Jimmy and Keenan next. The chances of him getting up there are very slim, especially if the team turns the corner and does anything in the coming years.
Mathis should be inducted, aside from the fact that he's a Jacksonville native. He's by far the best Defensive back in the teams history. Owns the franchise record for interceptions, was a 1st team all pro in 2006, and in 2007 (our last playoff appearance) he was the shining star with 2 interceptions and returned one for a score. Teams began to give him "revis/sherman/norman/bailey" treatment and actively throw away since he would ballhawk at any moment.
I could see a case for Henderson and Stroud as well seeing as they were the cornerstones of those nasty defenses in the early 2000's. I don't think Brackens belongs, while he may be the best pass rusher/Defensive End in franchise history, i believe that he's remembered so fondly because of the jags absolute inability to find even an adequate replacement at pass rusher almost a decade later. the same issue with the pass rush we had in 2007 is still plaguing us today. During that time we've had some good Defensive Backs come in but none have come close to the level of play of Rashean.
Quote:This team for the most part has always been known for offense more than defense. Nobody on our defense has had absolute stellar careers. Rashean, Brackens, Stroud, Henderson, Hardy, Poz, Darius, etc etc were all very good, but none were known league wide like the guys put into the Pride at this point. With that said, I still disagree with one of the members of the Pride, but that has been discussed in the past.
This also boils down with how inclusive do you want to make the Pride? is it someone every 2, 3, 5, 10 years? Is MJD worthy? If so you have to keep pushing other guys back. In my opinion this team hasn't won enough to keep filling up space around the stadium.
We are setting a dangerous precedent if we are letting above average players into the Pride. What if we become a consistently good team again and pipe dream, win a couple Super Bowls....how many of those guys will deserve to go in the Pride? I think you need to develop some exclusivity. If you're winning Super Bowls you are almost assured to have defensive players that will out perform many of the guys listed above.
You articulate some very important and sensible considerations for Pride induction.
However I disagree with your assessment about players not being known league wide.
As you know, for some time, the Pro Bowl balloting has been divided three ways, fans coaches and players. If you assume Pro Bowl balloting is in some way reflective of league wide publicity/notoriety/fame, examining it may be instructive.
Mark Brunell went to three Pro Bowls during his Jaguars tenure.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/pl...unMa00.htm
Marcus Stroud also went to three Pro Bowls.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/pl...roMa01.htm
Adjusting for the fact QBs are generally more publicized than DTs, you could certainly argue Stroud got as much pub league wide as Brunell.
Also consider Brunell never made All Pro-which is considered more prestigious than making the Pro Bowl. Meanwhile, Mathis DID make first team All Pro one year.
However, I submit that league wide publicity is not necessarily a good criteria the Jaguars should use to determine who should be inducted into the Pride. I think importance to the Jaguars, big games, longevity, talent, and many other factors should go into it.
Mathis was good but not good enough for the pride.
If Mathis goes in then so does DD, MJD, Brackens
Ill say my same piece as the pride that i would say about the Hall of Fame. It needs to be the best of the best from the jaguars. With that said Mathis was absolutely the best of the best. Those saying "if Mathis gets in so and so should get in" are really watering down his accomplishments. He is one of the few all pros this team has had as well as straight up pro bowl particapants not alternate as well as owning damn near all the db statistics in team history. He also made clutch game changing plays.
Ill never forget that steelers game that went into overtime and he sealed the game by picking it off and returning it for a td. He has a highlight reel of game alterning plays I dont think any other players in our history can compare to.
If we put every halfway decent player in Jags history in the pride, it would be full of players whose careers spanned a 15 year period. It's not very special if you let anyone who was decent in. Sure, Rashean was a pretty good corner, but he was no Nnamdi Asamguoah, or Darrele Revis, or Deion Sanders. Those are the kinds of corners you put in a pride. Guys who shut down their half of the field. Love Rashean, but he never did that.
The only other defenders I can think would qualify would be a HenderStroud combo.
Wasn't Henderson just in trouble for beating a woman or something? If no Jimmy for nose candy, no abusers.
DD? Meh
Brakens was good, he wasn't LT.
Mathis held down a side of the field for a decade. He should be the first defender in.
Mathis should 100% be in. He was my favourite player so perhaps I'm biased but are people forgetting how good he really was?
I was and am a huge fan of Rashean, arguably my favorite DB in the Jags history (with DD). Should he be in discussion for the Pride? Yes. Should he make it in? I don't think so, at least not initially. I really wish that our Pride is reserved for the elite instead of "very good".
Fred and Tony were elite, HoF caliber players.
Brunell was borderline, but I get why he's in there due to his presence in the best part of this team's history.
Mathis was a very very good cornerback. He's a class act. But, this team entered the NFL in 1995 and in its 20 years of existence we already have 3 players in the pride.
MJD, Stroud/Big John are candidates. At some point, Tom SHOULD make it. Jimmy too if he can stay out of trouble. Any of those guys, IMO, are ahead of Mathis.
I think he belongs in the pride, only time will tell.
I think we should stop with the pride until we have new winners.
Brunell made it because of the position he played . Plus Gabbert's terrible play at the time made people reminisce about the past.
Quote:While I agree there is a strong case for 'Shean to be in the Pride.
I don't think the organization plans to put him in there.
I am basing this on the fact that the #27 is still in circulation. The numbers that are out of circulation are 71, 8, 28, 82, 32.
Those numbers, I believe are the organizations hint of players eventually being inducted.
Eventually.... In the distant future... Teams are going to have to bring these numbers back or the players won't have any numbers to use.
Truth.
Quote:Leon Searcy was just on 1010 XL and said Boselli was the best left tackle he has ever seen and it upsets him that Boselli isn't at least further along in the talks to make the hall of fame. Leon Searcy on his own is a pretty amazing left tackle, and for him to pay a complement like that to Boselli is pretty special. I get the longevity thing, but there are extenuating circumstances. Jim Brown didn't play in the NFL long either.
Warren Sapp said the same thing about Boselli a couple of years ago. I think Boselli will eventually get in though it may be several more years.