Everyone on the board acknowledges we need defensive upgrades, not the least of which is pass rusher(s).
Inevitably, should we sign a pass rusher or two, there is going to be some excitement, met with a few less than enthusiastic responses.
But what SHOULD the expectations be for any new pass rushers we add?
What is the number of sacks the new pass rusher should produce to consider his position "upgraded?:
Why?
What is the number of sacks the defense should have after the signings for you to consider it "improved?"
Does your answer change depending upon where the player will line up? Does a LEO generate higher expectations than the big DE, or does it depend upon the players signed?
Quote:Everyone on the board acknowledges we need defensive upgrades, not the least of which is pass rusher(s).
Inevitably, should we sign a pass rusher or two, there is going to be some excitement, met with a few less than enthusiastic responses.
But what SHOULD the expectations be for any new pass rushers we add?
We should not expect any pass rusher to immediately come in and do what he did on his previous team. He needs to adjust to a different defensive scheme unless his name is Bruce Irvin.
What is the number of sacks the new pass rusher should produce to consider his position upgraded? Why?
All defensive lineman say this when asked about not getting enough sacks: They do so much more than sacking quarterbacks it is unfair to judge them based on that statistic.
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What is the number of sacks the defense should have after the signings for you to consider it improved?
Overall defensive improvement means we get better in every area, not just in the pass rush department.
Does your answer change depending upon where the player will line up? Does a LEO generate higher expectations than the big DE, or does it depend upon the players signed?
What matters in that respect is Todd Wash using our players the right way based on their physical attributes and skill sets.
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See red text above.
We need a guy that's capable of putting up double digit sacks every year he steps on the field for us. 10 sacks at the very least is what I would be expecting out of say Olivier Vernon. Whether that's realistic or not, idk. We desperately need a guy who can get us a sack or 2 every other game, and that's at the very least.
Quote:We need a guy that's capable of putting up double digit sacks every year he steps on the field for us. 10 sacks at the very least is what I would be expecting out of say Olivier Vernon. Whether that's realistic or not, idk. We desperately need a guy who can get us a sack or 2 every other game, and that's at the very least.
The total number of sacks from all four linemen is more important than how many of them come from a certain player.
Quote:We need a guy that's capable of putting up double digit sacks every year he steps on the field for us. 10 sacks at the very least is what I would be expecting out of say Olivier Vernon. Whether that's realistic or not, idk. We desperately need a guy who can get us a sack or 2 every other game, and that's at the very least.
Agreed.
Quote:See red text above.
I think some posters already see red when you post, but you just high-lighted it this time.
Quote:We need a guy that's capable of putting up double digit sacks every year he steps on the field for us. 10 sacks at the very least is what I would be expecting out of say Olivier Vernon. Whether that's realistic or not, idk. We desperately need a guy who can get us a sack or 2 every other game, and that's at the very least.
That's sounds reasonable.
Forget sacks numbers we just need consistent pressure on the QB especially on our nemesis 3rd and long.
I'd be delighted if no pass rusher we have gets over 8 sacks as long as Fowler,Marks,Odrick plus our FAs and draft picks are able to make the QB uncomfortable in the pocket.
Quote:The total number of sacks from all four linemen is more important than how many of them come from a certain player.
True only to an extent. Having that dominant guy opens up so much more for the rest of the line, effects the offensive scheme, etc.
People focus so much on sacks. They are overrated and a useless stat. What I expect is to see whoever we sign in the backfield often and contributing to a disruptive pass rush along with other players.
Quote:Forget sacks numbers we just need consistent pressure on the QB especially on our nemesis 3rd and long.
I'd be delighted if no pass rusher we have gets over 8 sacks as long as Fowler,Marks,Odrick plus our FAs and draft picks are able to make the QB uncomfortable in the pocket.
I agree with that. I'm not much of a stats guy. I prefer the old eyeball test. So personally, I wouldn't put an exact number on it. We just can't have QBs standing back there with no worries at all.
On the other hand, if you put a gun to my head, I would say, if we drafted for example Buckner and played him at the big DE spot, I would hope he could get us 5 sacks his first year. I expect we would want to do a lot of rotating of our defensive linemen, with some of them playing a lot of different positions. Any rookie will be in and out of the lineup. I don't expect big stats for a rookie.
I'll echo what everyone else is saying; the Pass Rush needs to move the QB off the spot. Whether that shows up as Sacks, Pressures, Hits, INTs, letters home to mom, whatever. They need to affect the QB.
Constant pressure over sacks any day.
We had a lot of sacks 2 years ago but our pass rush was still bad. We need pressure so that our secondary isn't chasing down players for 5 or 6 seconds like they were this year.
Quote:Everyone on the board acknowledges we need defensive upgrades, not the least of which is pass rusher(s).
Inevitably, should we sign a pass rusher or two, there is going to be some excitement, met with a few less than enthusiastic responses.
But what SHOULD the expectations be for any new pass rushers we add?
What is the number of sacks the new pass rusher should produce to consider his position "upgraded?:
Why?
What is the number of sacks the defense should have after the signings for you to consider it "improved?"
Does your answer change depending upon where the player will line up? Does a LEO generate higher expectations than the big DE, or does it depend upon the players signed?
Just be better than Clem and branch at not giving QBs 4 seconds or more to find open targets.
That's my only expectation.
Hopefully MUCH better.
Quote:Just be better than Clem and branch at not giving QBs 4 seconds or more to find open targets.
That's my only expectation.
Hopefully MUCH better.
Clem and Branch were easily blocked one on one. That is a net contribution of... ZERO.
I posed the question, in part, because I was thinking about what expectations are realistic for the player/position in question.
In particular I was thinking about a Mario Williams signing or a Von Miller signing.
If Mario Williams were one of the guys signed, he would presumably play the big DE position currently occupied by Odrick.
He has several seasons with double digit sacks, but the last year, he only had something like 5 and a half playing in a defense that did not suit his skills.
If Miller were the target, he has several double digit sack seasons under his belt, but he has rushed primarily from the defensive left side, and seemingly his best fit would be OTTO, if you are talking about putting him in a position to most readily replicate his success in Denver going against RTs.
But neither would necessarily play in the same scheme that brought them the most success, even if it isn't a total schematic mismatch like Williams found himself in Buffalo last year. Neither would necessarily have the surrounding talent around them, they had in Buffalo and Denver.
I could envision either of these guys coming here, turning in 8-10 sacks, and still be subject to critique on this board, even though 8 sacks by most standards is a pretty respectable output. By the same token, in Clemons' last decent year, he produced 8 sacks and nobody thought the position was fixed, and understandably so.
I agree with those who indicate sacks and pressure are not the same thing.
At this point I will be happy with a pass rusher that commands a double team and that other teams would have to scheme against.
Quote:I posed the question, in part, because I was thinking about what expectations are realistic for the player/position in question.
In particular I was thinking about a Mario Williams signing or a Von Miller signing.
If Mario Williams were one of the guys signed, he would presumably play the big DE position currently occupied by Odrick.
He has several seasons with double digit sacks, but the last year, he only had something like 5 and a half playing in a defense that did not suit his skills.
If Miller were the target, he has several double digit sack seasons under his belt, but he has rushed primarily from the defensive left side, and seemingly his best fit would be OTTO, if you are talking about putting him in a position to most readily replicate his success in Denver going against RTs.
But neither would necessarily play in the same scheme that brought them the most success, even if it isn't a total schematic mismatch like Williams found himself in Buffalo last year. Neither would necessarily have the surrounding talent around them, they had in Buffalo and Denver.
I could envision either of these guys coming here, turning in 8-10 sacks, and still be subject to critique on this board, even though 8 sacks by most standards is a pretty respectable output. By the same token, in Clemons' last decent year, he produced 8 sacks and nobody thought the position was fixed, and understandably so.
I agree with those who indicate sacks and pressure are not the same thing.
If you have any chance at Von Miller, then you do everything in your power to get him. He literally is the perfect player for the OTTO spot.
Just imagine signing him and then getting Bosa at 5. Pass rush problems solved.
Quote:Everyone on the board acknowledges we need defensive upgrades, not the least of which is pass rusher(s).
Inevitably, should we sign a pass rusher or two, there is going to be some excitement, met with a few less than enthusiastic responses.
But what SHOULD the expectations be for any new pass rushers we add?
What is the number of sacks the new pass rusher should produce to consider his position "upgraded?:
Why?
What is the number of sacks the defense should have after the signings for you to consider it "improved?"
Does your answer change depending upon where the player will line up? Does a LEO generate higher expectations than the big DE, or does it depend upon the players signed?
I think it just depends on who we sign. Stressing the QB is the most important factor for any pressure. Luckily we do have Fowler and Marks coming back. I want this defense to be on fire! Back in the days with Stroud/Henderson/McCray/Spicer I expected a sack every time the QB dropped back to pass, it was awesome.
I'm not as concerned about sacks as I am about pressure. We just have to stop giving the opposing QB enough time to knit a sweater back there.