Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

who said anything about fireing the GM or HC in this post?  

Quote:Who said anything about firing the GM or HC in this post?  

 

Nobody. I was just elaborating on your comment about the Browns.

Quote:Are the meaningless wins worth the chance at a top draft pick?

A valid question (ignore the snarky responses).

 

During the first two years of the current rebuild, I would've (and did) support not going for what I'll charitably refer to as 'non impact' wins. At that time, we desperately needed every high draft pick we could possibly get as we were rebuilding from scratch. 

 

Our situation now, however, is somewhat different. We have (we hope) the key people we needed on our offense. We have holes we need to fill on defense now, but we should be able to do that even if were not picking in the top five for a change. The fact that Fowler didn't play at all this season in effect almost makes it seem like we're fielding a #1 draft pick right off the bat!

 

The point is that now the importance of instilling a winning attitude is probably at least as important as a high draft pick, maybe more so. I for one think that Gus Bradley allowing the team to serve up a 50+ burger on the dolts was far more important to instilling that winning instinct than the mere gratification of blowing out a bad dolts team. In fact (and I hope I'm not giving him too much credit here) I think that may be the reason why he allowed it. It would be counter productive for the team to tank at this point.

 

The core of this team is those young guys who we've endured watching though those tough years... and now we're starting to see some light at the end of what has been a long and dark tunnel. Tanking now for a higher draft pick under these circumstances would be, in effect, to derail the train as it's finally picking up speed. I'm a gamer, and I, for one, have no problem with tanking for strategic purposes. That being said however, I don't advocate tanking unless there is a clear and definable target that would make doing so worth it. Like what the dolts did to get their franchise quarterback... and if you believe they didn't...I own a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you. 

 

There's a right time for most things. In my opinion, this is the time to be encouraging the winning attitude. We seem to do better on later round draft picks than we do with the high ones anyway, so I wouldn't sweat the draft... yet.

Wow.  The Madden game playing force on this board is unbelievable.  "Meaningless games"?.  Are you really serious?  It's close to Christmas and the Jaguars have a chance to get a Divisional Championship, and you say that these are "meaningless games"?

 

Here is something for a small brain to noodle for a bit.  How many teams currently with a "secured playoff berth" did so because of a rookie?  What position did said team draft this past year?

 

You NEVER, EVER play for draft position.  You play to win the game.

Quote:Wow.  The Madden game playing force on this board is unbelievable. "Meaningless games"? Are you really serious? It's close to Christmas and the Jaguars have a chance to get a Divisional Championship, and you say that these are "meaningless games"?

 

Here is something for a small brain to noodle for a bit.  How many teams currently with a "secured playoff berth" did so because of a rookie?  What position did said team draft this past year?

 

You NEVER, EVER play for draft position. You play to win the game.

 

What rookie are you referring to? Blake Bortles is in his second season.

 

I will never understand why people call themselves diehard NFL fans and want their teams to lose for draft picks. If you want a team to lose, you don't like that team.

I think people are misunderstanding what I'm trying to get at. Never once have I, nor will I argue that a team ought to intentionally lose games. What I'm trying to understand is how fans reconcile the dilemma present at had--do they relish in the short-term success (that appears to be largely inconsequential because the team is obviously not capable of competing for a super bowl) despite the negative consequences it has on the long-term trajectory of the team, or do they hope for a a better draft pick, which bares more favorably on the long-term success of the team but flies in the face of their short-term success?

 

It seems like an double edge sword that every fan of sports teams have to deal with. How do you reconcile the contrast between what is good for the heart and what is good for the mind? Sorry if some of you are so sensitive you cannot consider the question rationally, I wasn't trying to offend anyone, just curious about people's thoughts.

Quote:A valid question (ignore the snarky responses).

 

During the first two years of the current rebuild, I would've (and did) support not going for what I'll charitably refer to as 'non impact' wins. At that time, we desperately needed every high draft pick we could possibly get as we were rebuilding from scratch. 

 

Our situation now, however, is somewhat different. We have (we hope) the key people we needed on our offense. We have holes we need to fill on defense now, but we should be able to do that even if were not picking in the top five for a change. The fact that Fowler didn't play at all this season in effect almost makes it seem like we're fielding a #1 draft pick right off the bat!

 

The point is that now the importance of instilling a winning attitude is probably at least as important as a high draft pick, maybe more so. I for one think that Gus Bradley allowing the team to serve up a 50+ burger on the dolts was far more important to instilling that winning instinct than the mere gratification of blowing out a bad dolts team. In fact (and I hope I'm not giving him too much credit here) I think that may be the reason why he allowed it. It would be counter productive for the team to tank at this point.

 

The core of this team is those young guys who we've endured watching though those tough years... and now we're starting to see some light at the end of what has been a long and dark tunnel. Tanking now for a higher draft pick under these circumstances would be, in effect, to derail the train as it's finally picking up speed. I'm a gamer, and I, for one, have no problem with tanking for strategic purposes. That being said however, I don't advocate tanking unless there is a clear and definable target that would make doing so worth it. Like what the dolts did to get their franchise quarterback... and if you believe they didn't...I own a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you. 

 

There's a right time for most things. In my opinion, this is the time to be encouraging the winning attitude. We seem to do better on later round draft picks than we do with the high ones anyway, so I wouldn't sweat the draft... yet.

 

I disagree with a couple things you mentioned but I appreciate you taking the time to actually answer the questions. How do you quantify the 'winning mentality'? It seems superfluous and highly subjective and at the end of the day what wins games is talent, not a demeanor or attitude. Are you suggesting that the core players of this team don't already have that mentality?

Quote:I think people are misunderstanding what I'm trying to get at. Never once have I, nor will I argue that a team ought to intentionally lose games. What I'm trying to understand is how fans reconcile the dilemma present at hand--do they relish in the short-term success (that appears to be largely inconsequential because the team is obviously not capable of competing for a super bowl) despite the negative consequences it has on the long-term trajectory of the team, or do they hope for a a better draft pick, which bares more favorably on the long-term success of the team but flies in the face of their short-term success?

 

It seems like an double edge sword that every fan of sports teams have to deal with. How do you reconcile the contrast between what is good for the heart and what is good for the mind? Sorry if some of you are so sensitive you cannot consider the question rationally, I wasn't trying to offend anyone, just curious about people's thoughts.

 

It absolutely would be a double-edged sword - if there were no good prospects left later in the draft. As one poster pointed out, we have some talented players who were not top 10 draft picks. Allen Hurns wasn't even drafted. Obviously we have a better chance of picking elite players with top 10 draft picks, but that does not guarantee anything or mean it is bad to pick later in the first round. Many players were supposed to be first round picks and somehow dropped out of it. Also, players who were second round picks often turn out to be better than first rounders on the same team. Because these mistakes happen, it is obviously not bad to have a pick later in the first round.

 

Then there is trading up. That was how we snagged Allen Robinson late in the second round. If we have extra third day picks from offseason trades, our draft will still total 7 or more players. Starting in 2017, CPs (compensatory picks) also can be traded. That potentially can help us after the 2016 season.

 

Other posters got upset because it appeared you want the Jaguars to lose their last three games. Sorry for the misunderstanding. GO JAGUARS!

Quote:What rookie are you referring to? Blake Bortles is in his second season.


I will never understand why people call themselves diehard NFL fans and want their teams to lose for draft picks. If you want a team to lose, you don't like that team.

You rooted for the Broncos to beat the Jags 3 years ago.... You are not a true fan

Honestly, I'd take a 6-10 season. We've shown that we can compete, we are way young, and we have a star at QB. I'm willing to be patient now. If Bortles had a 22 TD/16 int season, it would give me little hope to be excited. But our 23 year old QB just threw up 30 TDs and has shown crazy improvement

Quote:Honestly, I'd take a 6-10 season. We've shown that we can compete, we are way young, and we have a star at QB. I'm willing to be patient now. If Bortles had a 22 TD/16 int season, it would give me little hope to be excited. But our 23 year old QB just threw up 30 TDs and has shown crazy improvement

30 TDs with 3 games to go.


Might end up with 35+ which would be insane

LOL, you guys are discussing winning or getting a higher draft pick with a tack fan...  You all realize Baconator is a tack troll, right?  He's not a Jaguar fan...  He's been trolling The Jungle this entire season.  Early on he made it clear he's a tack fan and his QB is Mariota...

 

Are you not counting the Ravens win?

Quote:Jaylon Smith comes to mind or someone who is projected to go high falls. Basically what the Ravens do every single year.

I would absolutely love Jaylon Smith, but I think Myles Jack has a real shot at being drafted by us. He might slip a little bit because of his knee injury, but it was only a MCL and he'll have a good amount of time to heal up.

 

LB is easily our weakest position group and Jack would be a huge grab, in my opinion (so would Jaylon). We need more talent and athleticness at LB and he is chalked full of it.

 

Jack and Telvin at LB? Yes please. Those two would be flying all over the field.

Quote:I remember a lot of people at the beginning of the season saying they'd be ecstatic with a 7-8 win season. Well here ya go.

 

Yes, but that was before fate handed us three games against backup QBs and three more against rookie QBs. Two others were against journeymen who would normally be backups. Several of those games (plus Miami) featured OLs in disarray with multiple replacements. Even the Panthers were missing their #1 WR and their top two defenders.


 

With any reasonable defensive coaching strategy the Jags should be 9-4 right now.

Quote:I'm not trying to troll, I'm just thinking about draft history. Remember the game the Colts lost to the Jags that solidified their rights to the top pick where they selected Luck over RG3? If they had stolen a meaningless win there, the entire makeup of their franchise changes and they miss out on a generational prospect. What good do the wins do for a team that outweighs the value of getting a potentially generational prospect?

 

Luck is an extreme example. As you say, such a prospect only comes along once in a generation (Elway was the previous one).


 

Let me also point out that Houston managed to lose enough games to get the first pick in 2014. They took Clowney instead of Bortles. A good GM beats a good draft position every time.

Quote:Luck is an extreme example. As you say, such a prospect only comes along once in a generation (Elway was the previous one).


 

Let me also point out that Houston managed to lose enough games to get the first pick in 2014. They took Clowney instead of Bortles. A good GM beats a good draft position every time.

 

I'd say the bigger exception is finding a steal in the later rounds of the draft. Look at the draft history in the NFL, yeah there are a lot of good players all over, but the truly game-changing talents are almost always taken in the top 5-10. 

Ohhhh all of the one score games we lost...what could've been.

Quote:I'd say the bigger exception is finding a steal in the later rounds of the draft. Look at the draft history in the NFL, yeah there are a lot of good players all over, but the truly game-changing talents are almost always taken in the top 5-10. 

JJ Watt, Chandler Jones, Oliver Vernon, Justin Houston, Darrelle Revis, Aqib Talib, JPP, Wilkerson, Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Aaron Donald, Clay Matthews, Harrison Smith, Reshad Jones, Jurrell Casey, LaVonte David, Thomas Davis, Carlos Dunlap, Geno Atkins, Sen'Derrick Marks, etc. etc. etc. say hello.

 

Seriously man, if we had no QB I'd hear you, the top 5 is where you want to be in that case, but impact defensive players can be found everywhere...just a couple years back we were in prime position to get a JJ Watt or Ryan Kerrigan and we traded up for Blaine Gabbert 10th overall. 

 

Edit: BTW. I didn't even think about offensive players, these are just big time defensive impact players that come to mind...and there's a ton more.

Quote:LOL, you guys are discussing winning or getting a higher draft pick with a tack fan...  You all realize Baconator is a tack troll, right?  He's not a Jaguar fan...  He's been trolling The Jungle this entire season.  Early on he made it clear he's a tack fan and his QB is Mariota...

 

I didn't know unicorns farted rainbows!