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Quote:Agreed, at the very least the Government new about and ignored what was going to happen. No planes hit building 7 so you tell me how that one came down?

Thanks Obama?

Quote:Agreed, at the very least the Government new about and ignored what was going to happen. No planes hit building 7 so you tell me how that one came down?

Don't you read the papers? It caught fire. Because skyscrapers constantly collapse when there's a fire inside. Haven't you seen "The Towering Inferno"?

 

Oh, wait, that building didn't collapse.

Quote:Agreed, at the very least the Government new about and ignored what was going to happen. No planes hit building 7 so you tell me how that one came down?

 

Get em' Eric. Jet fuel can't melt steel beams.

Structural engineering thinks these jet fuel comments are equal parts hilarious and terribly sad. Maybe you guys have destroyed my sarcasm dectector. Hope that's the case.

Quote:Agreed, at the very least the Government new about and ignored what was going to happen. No planes hit building 7 so you tell me how that one came down?

 

I'd guess that two 100-story buildings collapsing would cause a lot of structural damage just by shaking the ground nearby. The fire certainly didn't help.

Quote:Structural engineering thinks these jet fuel comments are equal parts hilarious and terribly sad. Maybe you guys have destroyed my sarcasm dectector. Hope that's the case.

So as a structural engineer can you tell me that jet fuel does melt steel? Or explain how a building collapsing ob itself doesn't slow down at all? What about building 7? There's to many unanswered questions for me. I don't subscribe bush did it for the oil that's to simple but I do think we haven't got the whole story and at the very least parts of the federal government new something was about to happen and for whatever reason looked the other way.

Quote:I'd guess that two 100-story buildings collapsing would cause a lot of structural damage just by shaking the ground nearby. The fire certainly didn't help.

Remeberbuilding7.org


They have a pretty good break down that disputes both those theories.

Quote:So as a structural engineer can you tell me that jet fuel does melt steel? 

 

I'm gonna focus on just this one because it's late and I've been drinking.

 

Jet fuel doesn't have to make steel melt to cause it to lose it's structural strength. In fact, most steel is forged and shaped well below the melting point. It's bit like spaghetti; when it's uncooked it's not particularly strong but it can stay upright. When cooked, it's not broken but it has lost all of its strength.

Quote:I'm gonna focus on just this one because it's late and I've been drinking.


Jet fuel doesn't have to make steel melt to cause it to lose it's structural strength. In fact, most steel is forged and shaped well below the melting point. It's bit like spaghetti; when it's uncooked it's not particularly strong but it can stay upright. When cooked, it's not broken but it has lost all of its strength.

Pretty much this. Steel members have various yield points for things like tension, compression, torsion, etc... There is also a maximum capacity based on the temperature. Massive heat caused by fires causing critical members to fail is not unheard of in the industry. If you reduce the load a member or a connection carries it can't do its job. Steel structures are strong because of the entire assembly. There is tons of redundecy on these designs but enough failures will cause a critical collapse as we saw.


This is a good read. It's an aggregate of all the varius conspiracies but I'm linking becuase of the explanation under the melted steel section.

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a6384/debunking-911-myths-world-trade-center/'>http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a6384/debunking-911-myths-world-trade-center/</a>

Quote:So as a structural engineer can you tell me that jet fuel does melt steel? Or explain how a building collapsing ob itself doesn't slow down at all? What about building 7? There's to many unanswered questions for me. I don't subscribe bush did it for the oil that's to simple but I do think we haven't got the whole story and at the very least parts of the federal government new something was about to happen and for whatever reason looked the other way.

I'm not an engineer but I work with waaaay too many of them to count over my 12 odd years in the industry as a BIM designer. Not a one has ever even hinted at thinking that they agree with any of the conspiracies as they pertain to our field.


Jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel but as my previous reply says, its not necessary to melt steel for a collapse.


Edited to ad a portion of the previous link since I think it's relevant.


"With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom—approximately 10 stories—about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.


That added with the fire in building is plenty of reason to cause a collapse.

Call me neutral.  I won't say that I have enough first hand knowledge to really ever know for sure.  But jet fuel can get hot enough to reduce steel to like 10% strength.  Combined with the loss of some of the structural support from the actual impact, I think its very plausible that a collapse COULD occur.  

Quote:I'm not an engineer but I work with waaaay too many of them to count over my 12 odd years in the industry as a BIM designer. Not a one has ever even hinted at thinking that they agree with any of the conspiracies as they pertain to our field.


Jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel but as my previous reply says, its not necessary to melt steel for a collapse.


Edited to ad a portion of the previous link since I think it's relevant.


"With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom—approximately 10 stories—about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.


That added with the fire in building is plenty of reason to cause a collapse.

 

Have you ever seen the video of OBL and his henchmen watching the Twin Tower attacks? He was an engineer, and was essentially explaining what was going to happen, i.e. the collapse.He knew what the heat would do to the core of the towers.

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/us/colorado-planned-parenthood-shooting/' title="External link">Meanwhile, back on topic...</a>

 

Quote:I am a warrior for the babies.

 

Domestic terrorist.

 

And crazy as a loon.

Quote:<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/us/colorado-planned-parenthood-shooting/'>Meanwhile, back on topic...</a>

 


 

Domestic terrorist.

 

And crazy as a loon.

Agreed. I still don't get some of the reasons, but with loonies you usually don't. Or it could just be an act by a good operator. We'll only ever know what they want us to believe.

Quote:Agreed. I still don't get some of the reasons, but with loonies you usually don't. Or it could just be an act by a good operator. We'll only ever know what they want us to believe.

 

You watch Homeland, don't you.

The guy comes off a crazy but it's a little odd he has the same lawyer as the shooter in the batman shootings? He also claims that he didn't hire this lawyer so how close are these two incidents that the court would appoint the same public defender?

Quote:The guy comes off a crazy but it's a little odd he has the same lawyer as the shooter in the batman shootings? He also claims that he didn't hire this lawyer so how close are these two incidents that the court would appoint the same public defender?

Aurora and Colorado Springs are only about two hours apart. If he was charged with a federal crime (and I believe he was), he's in the same district, and I can't imagine there are too many public defenders on call per federal court district.

Quote:You watch Homeland, don't you.

Like 3 episodes, couldn't get into it.

Quote:Aurora and Colorado Springs are only about two hours apart. If he was charged with a federal crime (and I believe he was), he's in the same district, and I can't imagine there are too many public defenders on call per federal court district.

That makes perfect sense

High Profile cases often go to certain lawyers anyway.  


In Virginia a child kidnapper and possibly killer (they never found the body sadly) and John Allen Muhammed both had the same lawyer.  I'm sure there's some lawyers who wouldn't want to take those cases.  Either because they felt they couldn't handle them, or their families might not want them to.