Several years ago I would post a thread on here called "In the Trenches" where I went in depth breaking down the OL play. I did a pretty good job, and sure enough when anyone wanted to question me they'd go to the tape and come back saying I nailed it. But the trick involved a pain staking effort to get it right. I would literately re-watch every offensive play many times over in slo-mo. I'd watch it first in regular speed mainly to hear if the announcers were saying anything to direct my attention to, and then again overall in slo-mo to get a feel for the play. I'd take notes on the down and distance and what the alignment was. Then I'd re-watch the play at least a couple times in slo-mo for every lineman...pausing as needed...until I was sure what his responsibility was before moving onto the next lineman. After an offensive series I'd fast-forward through the defense to get to the next series, but it still took me like three hours to get through a game. I've never been trained to know what to judge, but you can get a pretty good feel for precisely who each lineman should have been responsible for by carefully accounting for all of them. I'm sure I'm still made mistakes due my lack of professional training, but rarely any that board amateurs were able to correct me on.
It was fun, but the time and effort involved I just don't have that anymore. The best part was on sack plays because everyone had to know who was responsible for the sacks, and those were typically the heavily debated plays until we had our culprit pegged. It was like a message board trial for that player.
Quote:Several years ago I would post a thread on here called "In the Trenches" where I went in depth breaking down the OL play. I did a pretty good job, and sure enough when anyone wanted to question me they'd go to the tape and come back saying I nailed it. But the trick involved a pain staking effort to get it right. I would literately re-watch every offensive play many times over in slo-mo. I'd watch it first in regular speed mainly to hear if the announcers were saying anything to direct my attention to, and then again overall in slo-mo to get a feel for the play. I'd take notes on the down and distance and what the alignment was. Then I'd re-watch the play at least a couple times in slo-mo for every lineman...pausing as needed...until I was sure what his responsibility was before moving onto the next lineman. After an offensive series I'd fast-forward through the defense to get to the next series, but it still took me like three hours to get through a game. I've never been trained to know what to judge, but you can get a pretty good feel for precisely who each lineman should have been responsible for by carefully accounting for all of them. I'm sure I'm still made mistakes due my lack of professional training, but rarely any that board amateurs were able to correct me on.
It was fun, but the time and effort involved I just don't have that anymore. The best part was on sack plays because everyone had to know who was responsible for the sacks, and those were typically the heavily debated plays until we had our culprit pegged. It was like a message board trial for that player.
I wish we had a journalist/website that did this kind of thing for the Jags. I'd love to read breakdowns like that but we're stuck with opinion websites like BCC...
P
Quote:I wish we had a journalist/website that did this kind of thing for the Jags. I'd love to read breakdowns like that but we're stuck with opinion websites like BCC...
I think it was 2 seasons ago, NYCjags would post up some all 22 plays for us to discuss, I loved reading those threads. I think that there are a ton of folks that would totally geek out to a website or blogger who would post up plays for discussion.
But I think jags02 is right, it takes a lot of time and resources to do something like that.
Quote:I wish we had a journalist/website that did this kind of thing for the Jags. I'd love to read breakdowns like that but we're stuck with opinion websites like BCC...
poorly structured opinion sites like BCC,
which is a direct reflection of SBnation
just about anyone can have a sports opinion blog site these days....
It would be nice to be able to read truly unbiased reading material. But I don't think it really exists in the sports world anymore.
Quote:P
I think it was 2 seasons ago, NYCjags would post up some all 22 plays for us to discuss, I loved reading those threads. I think that there are a ton of folks that would totally geek out to a website or blogger who would post up plays for discussion.
But I think jags02 is right, it takes a lot of time and resources to do something like that.
Yeah I wouldn't expect it from someone on a forum. But the fact that hacks with no contacts get paid to post opinions and rumours yet nobody is doing good interesting stuff is sad.
Beadles weakest link. Joekel is doing ok.
Quote:I like your honest. I don't think anyone here is qualified to properly evaluate an offensive guard, imo.
There's a trick to evaluating Offensive Linemen, but anyone can do it if they know what to look for. Granted, it gets tricky when you start pairing down between pass blocking and run blocking but if you watch enough you'll start to get a feel for it.
For me, the most important thing was did they let anyone "cross their face"? What this question is asking is did the blocker allow a Defensive player to go around him without moving him off of his path? He doesn't have to stop the guy, but he better have laid hands on him and moved him off of his track.
The next thing for me is "did he chase"? This isn't as universal but it is rather standard, Offensive Linemen should not chase Defenders. If your guy is going away from you, let him go. Odds are, he's just getting out of the way of someone else on his squad, so just be a little patient and the real target will show up. If he chased a guy and left his spot, did another defender come through his location? If so, that's bad. Really bad.
Then we get to "How was he at impact?" Did he move his man with his shot or at least change his trajectory? Did he get blown back? If he did, was it a footwork / foot positioning thing or simply a power thing? Was he under balance when he went to strike?
Next is "how does he move in space?" Were there any plays where he had to climb up to get to a Linebacker or pull around behind another blocker and lead a play? If so, did he get his hands on someone? Did he outrun the play? Did he maintain good balance on the run so that when he did impact his guy, he gave a good shot.
And lastly, how did he finish? Not all blockers are going to finish their blocks on their feet. Some guys are dirtballs and just have sloppy blocks but are they effective? Did they run their feet through contact and follow the play? Do they get every last shove in that they could before the whistle blew?
Now, I haven't done that for this season but those are some of the things that I look at when grading out tape of players. It can really be a lot of fun if you pick one guy and follow him throughout a season.
Quote:There's a trick to evaluating Offensive Linemen, but anyone can do it if they know what to look for. Granted, it gets tricky when you start pairing down between pass blocking and run blocking but if you watch enough you'll start to get a feel for it.
For me, the most important thing was did they let anyone "cross their face"? What this question is asking is did the blocker allow a Defensive player to go around him without moving him off of his path? He doesn't have to stop the guy, but he better have laid hands on him and moved him off of his track.
The next thing for me is "did he chase"? This isn't as universal but it is rather standard, Offensive Linemen should not chase Defenders. If your guy is going away from you, let him go. Odds are, he's just getting out of the way of someone else on his squad, so just be a little patient and the real target will show up. If he chased a guy and left his spot, did another defender come through his location? If so, that's bad. Really bad.
Then we get to "How was he at impact?" Did he move his man with his shot or at least change his trajectory? Did he get blown back? If he did, was it a footwork / foot positioning thing or simply a power thing? Was he under balance when he went to strike?
Next is "how does he move in space?" Were there any plays where he had to climb up to get to a Linebacker or pull around behind another blocker and lead a play? If so, did he get his hands on someone? Did he outrun the play? Did he maintain good balance on the run so that when he did impact his guy, he gave a good shot.
And lastly, how did he finish? Not all blockers are going to finish their blocks on their feet. Some guys are dirtballs and just have sloppy blocks but are they effective? Did they run their feet through contact and follow the play? Do they get every last shove in that they could before the whistle blew?
Now, I haven't done that for this season but those are some of the things that I look at when grading out tape of players. It can really be a lot of fun if you pick one guy and follow him throughout a season.
Completely agree.
You learn so much when watching yourself on film, everyone in the room's eyes on your play, and taking criticism (good and bad) from your coaches.
If you've been in the room, it really goes a long way to understanding what you're seeing/not seeing when you watch the interior. If you haven't, then it's sometimes difficult to explain to someone what they are/are not seeing or understanding/not understanding.
Quote:There's a trick to evaluating Offensive Linemen, but anyone can do it if they know what to look for. Granted, it gets tricky when you start pairing down between pass blocking and run blocking but if you watch enough you'll start to get a feel for it.
For me, the most important thing was did they let anyone "cross their face"? What this question is asking is did the blocker allow a Defensive player to go around him without moving him off of his path? He doesn't have to stop the guy, but he better have laid hands on him and moved him off of his track.
The next thing for me is "did he chase"? This isn't as universal but it is rather standard, Offensive Linemen should not chase Defenders. If your guy is going away from you, let him go. Odds are, he's just getting out of the way of someone else on his squad, so just be a little patient and the real target will show up. If he chased a guy and left his spot, did another defender come through his location? If so, that's bad. Really bad.
Then we get to "How was he at impact?" Did he move his man with his shot or at least change his trajectory? Did he get blown back? If he did, was it a footwork / foot positioning thing or simply a power thing? Was he under balance when he went to strike?
Next is "how does he move in space?" Were there any plays where he had to climb up to get to a Linebacker or pull around behind another blocker and lead a play? If so, did he get his hands on someone? Did he outrun the play? Did he maintain good balance on the run so that when he did impact his guy, he gave a good shot.
And lastly, how did he finish? Not all blockers are going to finish their blocks on their feet. Some guys are dirtballs and just have sloppy blocks but are they effective? Did they run their feet through contact and follow the play? Do they get every last shove in that they could before the whistle blew?
Now, I haven't done that for this season but those are some of the things that I look at when grading out tape of players. It can really be a lot of fun if you pick one guy and follow him throughout a season.
Hogwash!
Actually, nice write up. I wasn't trying to say everyone is a "kindergartner" just really, who is watching guard play to the point of evaluation. I know when they have a lot of holding penalties it's probably not a good thing. :yes:
Quote:I tried looking up the wayback machine for the TU message board back in the early 2000s, but most of the links don't work. I did find one old link to the TU, and oh the memories. Who else remembers this...
https://web.archive.org/web/200208271812.../jagzilla/
I do, I do!!
That was an interesting group. Wonder whatever happend to Dexter?
Jim
Quote:Good stuff.
Now that I think back to those threads, I would watch all the offensive plays, but it was primarily the sacks allowed that I focused on in the threads. I'd go over each lineman and sort of discuss their game, but the detailed discussions about plays were limited to huge sack plays and the like. To actually discuss every play would take eons and would bore readers. What readers really wanted to know was, who whiffed? That's what it really came down to. It was fun because often posters had an impression of who whiffed, but when you really account for everyone, the details sometimes revealed a different culprit.
I'd do this now, but it's been a few years since I was recording every single game.
That's what the average fan wants and that's fine but it doesn't give you an idea of how a player is doing. Plus, if you're used to watching a Vinny Manuwai type and then you go and watch say, Zane Beadles, it can get a little ugly. The whiffs are probably the easiest things to catch but everybody whiffs probably once a game, it just happens. I do remember those threads you did and I always enjoyed reading them. Maybe you and I can do a joint thread for a game this year?
Quote:Completely agree.
You learn so much when watching yourself on film, everyone in the room's eyes on your play, and taking criticism (good and bad) from your coaches.
If you've been in the room, it really goes a long way to understanding what you're seeing/not seeing when you watch the interior. If you haven't, then it's sometimes difficult to explain to someone what they are/are not seeing or understanding/not understanding.
If you use it right, it can teach you to stay humble and hungry. And you
have to have those two things in order to get better. If you can give yourself an evaluation with a truly clear eye and see what you did wrong without getting down on yourself and what you did right without getting too full of yourself, you can grow so much in a very little amount of time. I truly believe that.
Quote:Hogwash! Actually, nice write up. I wasn't trying to say everyone is a "kindergartner" just really, who is watching guard play to the point of evaluation. I know when they have a lot of holding penalties it's probably not a good thing. :yes:
Oh I know and I wasn't trying to insult or talk down to anyone with that way too wordy post. Those are just things that I picked up over time and I thought I'd share. Besides, if I didn't how else would folks know how smart I am? :whistling:
Quote:
Oh I know and I wasn't trying to insult or talk down to anyone with that way too wordy post. Those are just things that I picked up over time and I thought I'd share. Besides, if I didn't how else would folks know how smart I am? :whistling:
Next time try working in the word "Ergo". That always bumps it up just a bit.
Quote:I do, I do!!
That was an interesting group. Wonder whatever happend to Dexter?
Jim
I always thought Dexter was TMD.
Quote:I always thought Dexter was TMD.
I always thought that TMD was "JagRoar".
It's been a while but I think someone on the T-U board figured out who Dexter actually was and that he had been arrested.
Quote:I always thought that TMD was "JagRoar".
It's been a while but I think someone on the T-U board figured out who Dexter actually was and that he had been arrested.
Interesting. I remember reading Dexter and he always had the "I'm right and you are wrong" mentality. Not too mention, he would get stuck on certain players that he wanted the Jags to get and would blast them when they didn't. His style was very similar to TMD, except Dexter seemed way more ruthless.
Quote:Interesting. I remember reading Dexter and he always had the "I'm right and you are wrong" mentality. Not too mention, he would get stuck on certain players that he wanted the Jags to get and would blast them when they didn't. His style was very similar to TMD, except Dexter seemed way more ruthless.
It's possible Dexter and JagRoar were the same person too. I remember JagRoar was the one that complained the Jaguars changed from white to black shoes. Seemed like a TMD thing.