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This is yet another example of why Rams fans are staying away from the Edward Jones Dome in droves.  Stan Kroenke is the worst current owner in the NFL.  It's not even close.

Quote:This is yet another example of why Rams fans are staying away from the Edward Jones Dome in droves.  Stan Kroenke is the worst current owner in the NFL.  It's not even close.

Worse than Dan Snyder? Tell us how you really feel!

 

I love the ad. I cannot, for the life of me, believe that it was approved to go in the gameday program. Someone's asleep at the wheel, or they just don't care anymore.

Quote:Worse than Dan Snyder? Tell us how you really feel!

 

I love the ad. I cannot, for the life of me, believe that it was approved to go in the gameday program. Someone's asleep at the wheel, or they just don't care anymore.

 

 Much worse than Daniel Snyder.  When has Snyder shown any indication that he's going to move the Redskins out of the Washington DC area?

Lack of self awareness.

Quote: Much worse than Daniel Snyder.  When has Snyder shown any indication that he's going to move the Redskins out of the Washington DC area?

I don't know, I mean, at least there was never really any doubt about Kronke's intentions to take the Rams back to LA. If Snyder had told fans way back when buying the team that he intended to run it into the ground and stomp on its face to keep it down, they might not have welcomed him

Quote:I don't know, I mean, at least there was never really any doubt about Kronke's intentions to take the Rams back to LA. If Snyder had told fans way back when buying the team that he intended to run it into the ground and stomp on its face to keep it down, they might not have welcomed him

 

 Stan Kroenke has said nothing to the St. Louis Rams fan base for years.  Unless he's attempting the ultra leverage ploy,  which I don't believe is the case, there's no question  he's clearly trying to move the Rams to the LA area.

 

  As horrible as Daniel Snyder has run the Redskins,  as long as he doesn't move the team,  eventually the Washington Redskins fans will have a new owner.  At least they will still have their team at that point in time.    Unless the NFL blocks Kroenke from moving the Rams and they win in a potential court case,  St. Louis is going to lose the Rams.    They might even go on to have success in LA but that would be meaningless to the collective Rams fans in St. Louis. 

Quote: Stan Kroenke has said nothing to the St. Louis Rams fan base for years.  Unless he's attempting the ultra leverage ploy,  which I don't believe is the case, there's no question  he's clearly trying to move the Rams to the LA area.

There's no leverage play about it. Never was. He stopped putting any real effort into stadium talks with St. Louis pretty shortly after starting them, and at that point it was apparent that he wanted to move the team. The land purchase in Inglewood just made that all the more clear.

 

Even if the NFL tells Kroenke that they've chosen the San Diego/Oakland tandem for LA, he can still build his stadium and move the team, and there's really nothing the NFL can do to stop him. I think it's more likely that, instead of watching Kronke move the Rams to Inglewood and create a three-team clusterfudge in LA, the NFL would give him a sweetheart deal on the land in Inglewood and facilitate a move of the Rams to Oakland or San Antonio.

 

Or, potentially, Kroenke could force the NFL's hand by saying that he's moving to LA regardless of what the league wants to do with the Raiders and Chargers, which would probably result in the league abandoning the Carson plan and having either the Raiders or Chargers (probably the Raiders) move to Inglewood with the Rams and the other team being left to find a new city to move to. In that instance, San Antonio would probably be the favorite over Oakland, as Oakland has consistently refused public funding for a new stadium while San Antonio has repeatedly indicated that they're open to using public funds to build one. Also, I mean, let's be honest, the Raiders are a much bigger brand than the Chargers.

 

Either way, I expect the LA derby to be an ugly, three-team race, and despite the Raiders and Chargers intending to share a stadium in Carson, I still think that the most likely scenario involves the Rams sharing Inglewood with one of the two, and the loser having to either go back to the table with their current city or find a new city, possibly Oakland or San Antonio, maybe even St. Louis if they build a new stadium, to move the franchise to.

Quote:There's no leverage play about it. Never was. He stopped putting any real effort into stadium talks with St. Louis pretty shortly after starting them, and at that point it was apparent that he wanted to move the team. The land purchase in Inglewood just made that all the more clear.

 

Even if the NFL tells Kroenke that they've chosen the San Diego/Oakland tandem for LA, he can still build his stadium and move the team, and there's really nothing the NFL can do to stop him. I think it's more likely that, instead of watching Kronke move the Rams to Inglewood and create a three-team clusterfudge in LA, the NFL would give him a sweetheart deal on the land in Inglewood and facilitate a move of the Rams to Oakland or San Antonio.

 

Or, potentially, Kroenke could force the NFL's hand by saying that he's moving to LA regardless of what the league wants to do with the Raiders and Chargers, which would probably result in the league abandoning the Carson plan and having either the Raiders or Chargers (probably the Raiders) move to Inglewood with the Rams and the other team being left to find a new city to move to. In that instance, San Antonio would probably be the favorite over Oakland, as Oakland has consistently refused public funding for a new stadium while San Antonio has repeatedly indicated that they're open to using public funds to build one. Also, I mean, let's be honest, the Raiders are a much bigger brand than the Chargers.

 

Either way, I expect the LA derby to be an ugly, three-team race, and despite the Raiders and Chargers intending to share a stadium in Carson, I still think that the most likely scenario involves the Rams sharing Inglewood with one of the two, and the loser having to either go back to the table with their current city or find a new city, possibly Oakland or San Antonio, maybe even St. Louis if they build a new stadium, to move the franchise to.

 

   I agree that everything seems to point to Stan Kroenke wanting to go to Inglewood.

 

   One big X factor is the NFL has demonstrated it wants control of the situation.   Roger Goodell has been weakened in the last year or so.   But it's realistically possible that Goodell will decide the NFL will challenge Kroenke in court in order for the league in order to attempt to re-establish control in general.    Not to mention,  St. Louis is in the process of putting together a very good stadium proposal.   San Diego is far behind in that respect and they have major environmental issues to overcome.   Like you said,  the Oakland stadium situation is going nowhere.    Hence,  the NFL might conclude that the Carson Stadium plan is in the best interest of the league based on team situations.  

Quote:One big X factor is the NFL has demonstrated it wants control of the situation.   Roger Goodell has been weakened in the last year or so.   But it's realistically possible that Goodell will decide the NFL will challenge Kroenke in court in order for the league in order to attempt to re-establish control in general.    Not to mention,  St. Louis is in the process of putting together a very good stadium proposal.   San Diego is far behind in that respect and they have major environmental issues to overcome.   Like you said,  the Oakland stadium situation is going nowhere.    Hence,  the NFL might conclude that the Carson Stadium plan is in the best interest of the league based on team situations.  

The NFL has no ground to stand on legally. The relocation rules are that if a team moves without league approval, they're not eligible for league assistance in doing so. The NFL tried to block Al Davis' move to LA 30-ish years ago, and he sued them for it and won. The NFL really doesn't have a ton they can do to stop the Rams, especially because the Rams are privately financing their stadium and already own the land. That's where my thought process that the NFL will allow the Rams to move, ship the Raiders to Inglewood to share the stadium, then help the Chargers find a home outside of southern California comes from.

Quote:The NFL has no ground to stand on legally. The relocation rules are that if a team moves without league approval, they're not eligible for league assistance in doing so. The NFL tried to block Al Davis' move to LA 30-ish years ago, and he sued them for it and won. The NFL really doesn't have a ton they can do to stop the Rams, especially because the Rams are privately financing their stadium and already own the land. That's where my thought process that the NFL will allow the Rams to move, ship the Raiders to Inglewood to share the stadium, then help the Chargers find a home outside of southern California comes from.

 

   The NFL could make things very difficult for Stan Kroenke if he moves w/o approval.  One example of this is the NFL puts together the schedule of games with the input of their TV partners.   Here's one illusration of this,  even without overseas games as part of the equation.   Lets say that in every other season,  the Rams have 4 games in the Eastern Time Zone.  Every other week in a 7 week period,  the Rams could be sent to the Eastern Time Zone.   That would take a huge toll on the team.   To make things even worse for the Rams,  the NFL could move the Rams into a division with East Coast teams if the league re-aligns.   They were once in the NFL's Coastal Division,  hence there's a precedent for this.   

Quote:   The NFL could make things very difficult for Stan Kroenke if he moves w/o approval.  One example of this is the NFL puts together the schedule of games with the input of their TV partners.   Here's one illusration of this,  even without overseas games as part of the equation.   Lets say that in every other season,  the Rams have 4 games in the Eastern Time Zone.  Every other week in a 7 week period,  the Rams could be sent to the Eastern Time Zone.   That would take a huge toll on the team.   To make things even worse for the Rams,  the NFL could move the Rams into a division with East Coast teams if the league re-aligns.   They were once in the NFL's Coastal Division,  hence there's a precedent for this.   

True, and I suppose the schedule-maker could absolutely ruin the Rams' lives if he wanted to, but that wouldn't have any real effect on Kroenke's moving or keeping the team in LA. All it would do is prevent the Rams from fielding a competitive team anytime ever again. I don't know if the league really wants to see yet another team flounder and fail in LA because it had zero fan support, and setting the Rams up to be the next Jaguars franchise in terms of on-field success is not a good way to build that fan base.

 

For that reason, and because there's already an existing fan base for both teams in LA (albeit much smaller for the Rams than for the Raiders), I'm still expecting the Rams and Raiders and share Inglewood, and the Chargers to end up in St. Louis or San Antonio.

Quote:True, and I suppose the schedule-maker could absolutely ruin the Rams' lives if he wanted to, but that wouldn't have any real effect on Kroenke's moving or keeping the team in LA. All it would do is prevent the Rams from fielding a competitive team anytime ever again. I don't know if the league really wants to see yet another team flounder and fail in LA because it had zero fan support, and setting the Rams up to be the next Jaguars franchise in terms of on-field success is not a good way to build that fan base.

 

For that reason, and because there's already an existing fan base for both teams in LA (albeit much smaller for the Rams than for the Raiders), I'm still expecting the Rams and Raiders and share Inglewood, and the Chargers to end up in St. Louis or San Antonio.

 

   It could be a major dilemma for the NFL.   I'm not sure what's a higher priority for the league,  the success of the Los Angeles market or the importance of the league to have control. 

 

  One other possibility could be the Rams remain in St. Louis,  with Stan Kroenke selling the Rams to local ownership.   With Kroenke then buying majority control of the Raiders and moving them to Inglewood,  CA.   With the Chargers then joining them in Inglewood,  instead of Carson.   I think the NFL would be comfortable with this. 

Quote:   It could be a major dilemma for the NFL.   I'm not sure what's a higher priority for the league,  the success of the Los Angeles market or the importance of the league to have control. 

 

  One other possibility could be the Rams remain in St. Louis,  with Stan Kroenke selling the Rams to local ownership.   With Kroenke then buying majority control of the Raiders and moving them to Inglewood,  CA.   With the Chargers then joining them in Inglewood,  instead of Carson.   I think the NFL would be comfortable with this. 

I'm quite certain that success in LA is more important to the NFL than total control of exactly who gets there and how, which is why the Rams hold the upper hand. If the NFL tells Kroenke that the Chargers and Raiders are going to LA, all Kroenke has to say is, "Fine, so am I," and the NFL's LA plans are in trouble.

 

Has Mark Davis expressed any interest in selling the Raiders? I've seen the idea floated that Davis and Kroenke would basically "trade" franchises, with Davis taking over the Rams and either getting a new stadium in STL or moving them to San Antonio, Kroenke getting his LA team with the Raiders, and the Chargers getting their new stadium in LA, whether that's in Carson or Inglewood. It's a convoluted scenario, but it does basically give everyone what they want (aside from Davis, who might not be thrilled about leaving one bad stadium situation for another).

The official mover of the Jacksonville Jaguars.

 

You take ad dollars anywhere you can get them.

 

I would imagine every NFL team has an official mover as a sponsor considering they have to use them to get gear to away games.

Quote:I would imagine every NFL team has an official mover as a sponsor considering they have to use them to get gear to away games.

Yes, but surely you can see how it would be unintentionally hilarious for the Rams to advertise their official moving company this year, right?

Quote:I'm quite certain that success in LA is more important to the NFL than total control of exactly who gets there and how, which is why the Rams hold the upper hand. If the NFL tells Kroenke that the Chargers and Raiders are going to LA, all Kroenke has to say is, "Fine, so am I," and the NFL's LA plans are in trouble.

 

Has Mark Davis expressed any interest in selling the Raiders? I've seen the idea floated that Davis and Kroenke would basically "trade" franchises, with Davis taking over the Rams and either getting a new stadium in STL or moving them to San Antonio, Kroenke getting his LA team with the Raiders, and the Chargers getting their new stadium in LA, whether that's in Carson or Inglewood. It's a convoluted scenario, but it does basically give everyone what they want (aside from Davis, who might not be thrilled about leaving one bad stadium situation for another).

 

  The LA situation has so many variables that it's almost impossible to predict what's going to end up happening across the spectrum.    Stan Kroenke's greatest advantage in the situation is his wealth.   Yet,  at the same time,  St. Louis probably will have the best stadium plan situation of the 3 markets that could potentially lose their respective teams.   San Diego is a wildcard.   Dean Spanos'  ideal situation would probably be to get a new stadium in San Diego,  with no team in Los Angeles.   The latter isn't going to happen though.   What is one of the biggest questions of the whole puzzle,  at least on this end,   is would Spanos be comfortable with a state of the art stadium at his favorite San Diego location,   but with the Rams and Raiders moving to LA?    Could Spanos even live with one team in LA from his perspective?     If Spanos has doubts about the long term revenue in San Diego with one or two teams in LA,  he's very likely going to do everything possible to move to LA.  

 

   My impression is Mark Davis wants to keep the Raiders.  The question is,  will he be able to,  considering he's not a wealthy owner from an NFL perspective,  and the estate taxes that will have to be paid when his mother passes away.   Hopefully,  the latter won't happen for a very long time. 

 

  While circumstances often change,  it seems like Mark Davis doesn't want to go to St. Louis.   At least with the Raiders.    Yet, knowing what his father built with the Raiders,  I would be surprised if he agreed to trade franchises.    I don't think his motivation is to own another team,  though I'm far from certain of this.

Quote:Yes, but surely you can see how it would be unintentionally hilarious for the Rams to advertise their official moving company this year, right?

No more hilarious than the Jaguars sponsor running a commercial showing them packing up a moving truck with the team mascot included after all of the years of talk about this team relocating.  Sponsorship is sponsorship.  I'm sure the mover the Rams are advertising in their game day program has been doing so since winning the contract to move the equipment from away game to away game.

I don't understand the point of being negative about it or acting like it's a bad thing.

The nfl is an entertainment business and will make money anywhere it puts it's hat because the networks don't care what city it goes in.

Jaguars are a example of this. They are theoretically never going to win anything but they still make money because the league shares profits.

There's no reason for the Rams to be loyal to a city. No reason for the owner either. The Rams were just passing through in the first place and its their 4th move in 80 years when it happens

Quote:No more hilarious than the Jaguars sponsor running a commercial showing them packing up a moving truck with the team mascot included after all of the years of talk about this team relocating. Sponsorship is sponsorship. I'm sure the mover the Rams are advertising in their game day program has been doing so since winning the contract to move the equipment from away game to away game.

Mayflower still the official moving company for the Jacksonville Jaguars. Pretty horrific idea by someone in Marketing.