Quote:You may not be anti deadly force, but you certainly are pro hindsight.
You have less than half a second to decide on your life as an angry man, suspected of a crime, charges at you and says he will kill you while pulling something from the back of his waistband. So you would wait until the gun is pointed at you before reacting with deadly force?
For your family's sake, please don't ever get into law enforcement. We don't need any more dead cops. I hope your widow would agree with the "It's better me than them" mentality.
I am pro hindsight, yes, especially when it comes to asking the question of whether the killing of another person was justifiable homicide or murder. There are some things in life that you can't get wrong, and killing another human being is one of them.
If someone charged at me stating an intent to kill me and reaching for the back of their waistband, I'd kill them and be justified in doing so because they are representing themselves as being armed.
I would never go into law enforcement. I'm not the type to plant pot and a crack pipe in someone's car so I can get that promotion to sergeant.
Quote:I would never go into law enforcement. I'm not the type to plant pot and a crack pipe in someone's car so I can get that promotion to sergeant.
That is all that needs to be said.
Disgusting and truly revulsive.
Quote:Ah, there it is.
It took you that long to figure out that I believe law enforcement encourages those in the profession to lie, cheat and rob others of their Constitutional rights? You could have gleaned that much just by reading my first couple of posts.
Quote:It took you that long to figure out that I believe law enforcement encourages those in the profession to lie, cheat and rob others of their Constitutional rights? You could have gleaned that much just by reading my first couple of posts.
You really think the majority of Law Enforcement operates this way?
Quote:It took you that long to figure out that I believe law enforcement encourages those in the profession to lie, cheat and rob others of their Constitutional rights? You could have gleaned that much just by reading my first couple of posts.
Except lack of candor is the one thing that will get an officer fired before almost anything else. A police officer with a proven lack of candor can almost never take the stand in criminal cases; hence, useless.
Why else is a LEO's word taken with more weight in testimony than other witnesses? Its their job to be truthful.
Quote:Some pretty disgusting posts in this thread so I'll leave one more.
I hope some of you are one day faced with the prospect of having to use deadly force while being beat to death.
Its mind boggling how people can be so far removed and out of touch with reality that they honestly believe its better to be bludgeoned and gamble your life away than to protect yourself with deadly force... And then want to prosecute those who aren't that stupid or naive.
Thank you for saying this. Some of the posts in this thread are downright scary.
Quote:No, because its difficult to always be right for me. Maybe not for you, but most people aren't perfect all the time, especially when they have half a second to make a decision that may cost them their own life.
Go watch that video of the anti deadly force activist who was put into a simple shoo or no shoot police scenario and used deadly force on an unarmed subject.
go watch the video of the cop shooting a guy in the head, who then lied and said he was being drug by the car. Had the video not been there you all would have said oh he feared for his life give him the benefit of the doubt. A murderer would have been let go.
To think this is the only time something like this has happened is incredibly naive.
Make them all where body cameras and this would not even be an issue.
Quote:It took you that long to figure out that I believe law enforcement encourages those in the profession to lie, cheat and rob others of their Constitutional rights? You could have gleaned that much just by reading my first couple of posts.
Furthermore, do you think most officers enjoy dealing with criminals repeatedly? Do you think most officers go out actively seeking to deal with the same criminals over and over again? I hear people complain about police, about having to deal with them, they never help me etc. Do you really think officers seek out and enjoy dealing with those repeat offenders?
Do you think most officers that end up having to shoot a suspect, enjoy that? Do you think most officers that end up fatally shooting a suspect feel good about that when the situation is over?
Or is it a few bad eggs that get fed to you by the media.
Quote:go watch the video of the cop shooting a guy in the head, who then lied and said he was being drug by the car. Had the video not been there you all would have said oh he feared for his life give him the benefit of the doubt. A murderer would have been let go.
To think this is the only time something like this has happened is incredibly naive.
Make them all where body cameras and this would not even be an issue.
That is still conjecture. You don't know what an investigation would have said.
What argument is being made here? Don't believe the police?
When there is evidence of a crime, police are prosecuted and it happens everyday. Is this thread advocating the prosecution of a police officer everytime they are wrong in deadly force encounters? I can tell you there would be a lot of dead police.
Quote:You really think the majority of Law Enforcement operates this way?
Planting evidence? No, just those wanting to get ahead in their career.
Using slick language and questions disguised as soft commands ("you don't mind if I take a look in your car, do you?") or manipulative statements ("if you've got nothing to hide, there's no reason not to let me take a quick look around") to get you to voluntarily surrender your rights? Yes. 100% of the time, 100% of cops do this.
Police are trained to lie to you with a straight face. Not just detectives trying to get you to tell them where the body is, but traffic cops who have quotas--errrr, "performance goals", not just for tickets, but also for drug busts. If police are trained to assume that I'm a criminal, lie to me to establish trust and get rights waived, then find anything they can to cite and/or arrest me on, why should I assume anything other than that I'm dealing with a corrupt liar out to get me to waive my rights so they can plant a meth pipe in my car?
I've said it before and I'll say it again: All cops are liars. Not all cops are bad, but all cops are liars, and as such, you must always assume that you're dealing with a bad one.
Quote:go watch the video of the cop shooting a guy in the head, who then lied and said he was being drug by the car. Had the video not been there you all would have said oh he feared for his life give him the benefit of the doubt. A murderer would have been let go.
To think this is the only time something like this has happened is incredibly naive.
Make them all where body cameras and this would not even be an issue.
Want to know what all these instances have in common? Most of the people talking to the cops don't do exactly what they say. They want to talk back, not listen, or do whatever they want.
I've had some dealings with cops and I did exactly what they asked and there were no issues. Shocking.
Quote:go watch the video of the cop shooting a guy in the head, who then lied and said he was being drug by the car. Had the video not been there you all would have said oh he feared for his life give him the benefit of the doubt. A murderer would have been let go.
To think this is the only time something like this has happened is incredibly naive.
Make them all where body cameras and this would not even be an issue.
I agree with body cameras. They are a good idea for both public and officer safety. The problem is they aren't cheap and who is going to pay for every officer to have one?
Speak for yourself, please don't tell me how I would have thought about that particular situation.
Guilty criminals are let go every single day. It doesn't matter if they are a cop or citizen.
Quote:What argument is being made here? Don't believe the police?
When there is evidence of a crime, police are prosecuted and it happens everyday. Is this thread advocating the prosecution of a police officer everytime they are wrong in deadly force encounters?
1. Yes.
2. The thread? No. Me? Yes.
Quote:Furthermore, do you think most officers enjoy dealing with criminals repeatedly? Do you think most officers go out actively seeking to deal with the same criminals over and over again? I hear people complain about police, about having to deal with them, they never help me etc. Do you really think officers seek out and enjoy dealing with those repeat offenders?
Do you think most officers that end up having to shoot a suspect, enjoy that? Do you think most officers that end up fatally shooting a suspect feel good about that when the situation is over?
Or is it a few bad eggs that get fed to you by the media.
The bad eggs feed his arguments though. They are few and far between.
Officers now are scared to do their jobs because of the perception of how they handled a case could look to the general public. It's not safe for them or the communities they work in.
Quote:Planting evidence? No, just those wanting to get ahead in their career.
Using slick language and questions disguised as soft commands ("you don't mind if I take a look in your car, do you?") or manipulative statements ("if you've got nothing to hide, there's no reason not to let me take a quick look around") to get you to voluntarily surrender your rights? Yes. 100% of the time, 100% of cops do this.
Police are trained to lie to you with a straight face. Not just detectives trying to get you to tell them where the body is, but traffic cops who have quotas--errrr, "performance goals", not just for tickets, but also for drug busts. If police are trained to assume that I'm a criminal, lie to me to establish trust and get rights waived, then find anything they can to cite and/or arrest me on, why should I assume anything other than that I'm dealing with a corrupt liar out to get me to waive my rights so they can plant a meth pipe in my car?
I've said it before and I'll say it again: All cops are liars. Not all cops are bad, but all cops are liars, and as such, you must always assume that you're dealing with a bad one.
I can't even read all of this.
All cops are not liars. That is not true. You can say it's true all you'd like but you have no proof. That's just silly and ignorant.
Manipulative statements? I don't know what to say.
Quote:Planting evidence? No, just those wanting to get ahead in their career.
Using slick language and questions disguised as soft commands ("you don't mind if I take a look in your car, do you?") or manipulative statements ("if you've got nothing to hide, there's no reason not to let me take a quick look around") to get you to voluntarily surrender your rights? Yes. 100% of the time, 100% of cops do this.
Police are trained to lie to you with a straight face. Not just detectives trying to get you to tell them where the body is, but traffic cops who have quotas--errrr, "performance goals", not just for tickets, but also for drug busts. If police are trained to assume that I'm a criminal, lie to me to establish trust and get rights waived, then find anything they can to cite and/or arrest me on, why should I assume anything other than that I'm dealing with a corrupt liar out to get me to waive my rights so they can plant a meth pipe in my car?
I've said it before and I'll say it again: All cops are liars. Not all cops are bad, but all cops are liars, and as such, you must always assume that you're dealing with a bad one.
Very bigoted. You would make the perfect racist, not saying that you aren't if that is how you choose to identify. I wouldn't want to offend the PC ultra progressives by negatively demeaning racists.
Quote:The bad eggs feed his arguments though. They are few and far between.
Officers now are scared to do their jobs because of the perception of how they handled a case could look to the general public. It's not safe for them or the communities they work in.
Correct.
There are bad eggs, there are bad cops.
There are bad lawyers (ha!), doctors, taxi drivers, gas station employees and every occupation in between those.
People with attitudes like TJBender are a part of the problem.
The attitude he has shown in here is as much or more of the problem as the bad egg cops are.
How is "If you've got nothing to hide, there is no reason not to let me take a quick look around." A manipulative statement? It's the damn truth.
That statement is not taking away your rights. It is not forcing you to let them voluntarily search your vehicle.