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If you are dumb enough to relinquish your rights after you have committed a crime then you have larger issues than a prying cop.

Quote:The bad eggs feed his arguments though.  They are few and far between.

 

Officers now are scared to do their jobs because of the perception of how they handled a case could look to the general public.  It's not safe for them or the communities they work in.

People want cops to have oversight and not play Judge Dredd. That's so awful how could people demand such a thing?!?!?! 

 

I'll say it again. Require them all to wear body cameras and there would not be a problem. 

Quote:If you are dumb enough to relinquish your rights after you have committed a crime then you have larger issues than a prying cop.

Yes, let's blame the cop, not the guy with a crack pipe in his car.


Lets blame the cop, not the person with meth inside his vehicle with his young child.


It's that darn cops fault for manipulating them.


Question for folks.


An officer pulls a driver over and suspects they are intoxicated.


They go through their testing and the officers asks them a few questions.


What questions are manipulative in that situation? What should the officer not ask?


How about something similar to "Would you operate a vehicle in your current state with young children in the car?"


Is that manipulative?

Quote:People want cops to have oversight and not play Judge Dredd. That's so awful how could people demand such a thing?!?!?!


I'll say it again. Require them all to wear body cameras and there would not be a problem.

That's not what TJBender is going for here...

Quote:People want cops to have oversight and not play Judge Dredd. That's so awful how could people demand such a thing?!?!?!


I'll say it again. Require them all to wear body cameras and there would not be a problem.

TJ Bender is way off here with his deranged Astynomiaphobia. You are pretty much in line with what most people think. The only difference is that you feel cops are acting with no oversight, even though they face the same criminal probes that any normal person would face.

Quote:Very bigoted. You would make the perfect racist, not saying that you aren't if that is how you choose to identify. I wouldn't want to offend the PC ultra progressives by negatively demeaning racists.

Not really. Racism is based upon pre-established prejudices. My distrust of police is based upon real-life experience. There's a pretty broad line there. I don't hate someone because they wear a badge, but I don't particularly like or trust them, I assume that their purpose in establishing contact with me is to incriminate me, and I react as such. I'm not one of those Youtube jackholes that stands around filming police stations or taping traffic stops that I have nothing to do with, and I'm not openly hostile to police at all. I'm polite, but firm in my refusal to make conversation with them or surrender any rights.

 

Even then, I'm not of the assumption that all cops are bad. Late last year, I ran over a piece of scrap metal at 65mph and completely trashed my undercarriage, including dumping about 12-13 gallons of gas onto a side road after getting off the highway. A state trooper responded with the fire department, and he was cool as hell about the whole thing. Under Colorado law, he could have written me a pretty big ticket for hitting something, and another nice, big ticket for damage to the roadway (by dumping a ton of gas on it). I half-jokingly asked how much the ticket was after calming down from the shock of a firefighter commenting on how amazed they were that the car hadn't blown up with me in it based upon where the puncture in the tank was in relation to other damage, and he looked at me like I was nuts and said that there was no way he was writing me a ticket for something completely out of my control. We didn't make a ton of small talk, he didn't try and turn it into an inquisition, just asked me what happened and hung around until the tow truck got there. That was it. See, even I recognize that not all cops are bad.

 

Contrast that with experiences I've had with state troopers in South Dakota, Kansas, Texas, Florida, Georgia and South Carolina. I used to drive around a lot for work, and in each of those states, I've been pulled over for things that someone with in-state plates wouldn't have been touched for. 68 in a 65, 72 in a 70, "weaving in your lane", garbage like that. I've never once been issued a ticket, but every single time I've been told that I look suspicious driving around in my button-down shirt and khakis, asked about whether I use drugs/have drugs in the car, and pressured to allow a search. Please, try and convince me that those cops weren't fishing for a quota-buster.

 

Quote:How is "If you've got nothing to hide, there is no reason not to let me take a quick look around." A manipulative statement? It's the damn truth.


That statement is not taking away your rights. It is not forcing you to let them voluntarily search your vehicle.

It's an effort to pressure you into waiving your Fourth Amendment rights. You might have nothing to hide, but how do you know that the previous owner of the vehicle hadn't been transporting pot across state lines in it and left a stem or seed underneath a floor mat? How do you know that your idiot friend didn't accidentally leave his little bag of weed underneath a seat? Who do you think the cop is going to arrest in those circumstances? Here's a hint: he's not going to go after the previous owner, and he's not going to waste his time taking you over to your friend's house and asking for a confession.

 

There are all kinds of reasons to say no to a search, and not all of them involve hiding something.

 

Quote:People with attitudes like TJBender are a part of the problem.


The attitude he has shown in here is as much or more of the problem as the bad egg cops are.

Forgive me for believing that my Constitutional rights, as well as my basic human rights, trump the "right" of a cop to "mistakenly" kill me.

Quote:People want cops to have oversight and not play Judge Dredd. That's so awful how could people demand such a thing?!?!?! 

 

I'll say it again. Require them all to wear body cameras and there would not be a problem. 

This isn't too far off from what I would ultimately like to see, actually. If cops are all wearing body cameras, that footage is all public record, and wiping or altering footage becomes a felony and invalidates any and all criminal charges associated with it, things would improve. I'm not sure by how much--it just takes one person on a jury to buy the "I feared for my life" defense regardless of what the cameras show--but it would certainly help.

 

Quote:Question for folks.


An officer pulls a driver over and suspects they are intoxicated.


They go through their testing and the officers asks them a few questions.


What questions are manipulative in that situation? What should the officer not ask?


How about something similar to "Would you operate a vehicle in your current state with young children in the car?"


Is that manipulative?

That's called "reasonable suspicion", and when the cop asks the driver to step out of the vehicle for a field sobriety test, they have probable cause for doing so. Likewise, if someone appears to be driving stoned, there's no problem with ordering them out of the vehicle and searching it.

 

The problem is when cops randomly decide that someone is a criminal, then go through the motions of getting them to surrender their rights rather than establishing probable cause where none exists.

Quote:Not really. Racism is based upon pre-established prejudices. My distrust of police is based upon real-life experience. There's a pretty broad line there. I don't hate someone because they wear a badge, but I don't particularly like or trust them, I assume that their purpose in establishing contact with me is to incriminate me, and I react as such.

So racism is ok if its based on real-life experience? And the whole, "See? I don't think all blacks/police are bad" story sounds pretty familar.


Why are you entitled to stereotype and behave towards police in a way based on real-life experience, yet you proclaim the cops stereotyped you and thats why bad cops are bad?

Quote:So racism is ok if its based on real-life experience? And the whole, "See? I don't think all blacks/police are bad" story sounds pretty familar.


Why are you entitled to stereotype and behave towards police in a way based on real-life experience, yet you proclaim the cops stereotyped you and thats why bad cops are bad?

So now I'm somehow racist because I believe that all cops, when push comes to shove, can and will abuse their authority?

 

Again, I do not hate cops, and the suggestion that I hate someone just because they wear a badge is ridiculous. I'm not going to sit here and regurgitate myself.

 

As to your second question, I don't have the power to detain, arrest, ruin the life of and/or kill a cop because I apply a general stereotype to them. They do have the power to do that to me.

Quote:This isn't too far off from what I would ultimately like to see, actually. If cops are all wearing body cameras, that footage is all public record, and wiping or altering footage becomes a felony and invalidates any and all criminal charges associated with it, things would improve. I'm not sure by how much--it just takes one person on a jury to buy the "I feared for my life" defense regardless of what the cameras show--but it would certainly help.


That's called "reasonable suspicion", and when the cop asks the driver to step out of the vehicle for a field sobriety test, they have probable cause for doing so. Likewise, if someone appears to be driving stoned, there's no problem with ordering them out of the vehicle and searching it.


The problem is when cops randomly decide that someone is a criminal, then go through the motions of getting them to surrender their rights rather than establishing probable cause where none exists.

The solution is simple. Don't be stupid and surrender your rights.

Quote:So now I'm somehow racist because I believe that all cops, when push comes to shove, can and will abuse their authority?


Again, I do not hate cops, and the suggestion that I hate someone just because they wear a badge is ridiculous. I'm not going to sit here and regurgitate myself.


As to your second question, I don't have the power to detain, arrest, ruin the life of and/or kill a cop because I apply a general stereotype to them. They do have the power to do that to me.

Not saying youre a racist. Just stating that you use the same arguments that a racist uses to defend their position of prejudice.

Quote:The solution is simple. Don't be stupid and surrender your rights.

I never do. Most Americans, however, don't know that you can refuse to talk to a cop, refuse to identify yourself (in some circumstances), say "no" when the cop makes a statement about searching your car that just carries a presumptive or manipulative "yes" to it and force them to either state their probable cause for detaining you or let you on your way simply by asking, at any point, if you're free to go.

 

Cops are not required to inform you that you can say no to a search, demand an attorney or, in most cases, simply walk away. They're strongly encouraged not to share that information with you, and allowed/encouraged to lie to get you to forfeit those rights without knowing what you're doing. That needs to change.

 

Quote:Not saying youre a racist. Just stating that you use the same arguments that a racist uses to defend their position of prejudice.

I don't see it. A black man can't shoot me because he's black. A cop can shoot me because he's a cop.

Quote:I never do. Most Americans, however, don't know that you can refuse to talk to a cop, refuse to identify yourself (in some circumstances), say "no" when the cop makes a statement about searching your car that just carriers a presumptive or manipulative "yes" to it and force them to either state their probable cause for detaining you or let you on your way simply by asking, at any point, if you're free to go.


Cops are not required to inform you that you can say no to a search, demand an attorney or, in most cases, simply walk away. They're strongly encouraged not to share that information with you, and allowed/encouraged to lie to get you to forfeit those rights without knowing what you're doing. That needs to change.


I don't see it. A black man can't shoot me because he's black. A cop can shoot me because he's a cop.

If those Americans are ignorant, then that's their fault.


A black man has the same right to shoot you as a cop and both are, presumably, to be treated the same.


Also, a cop isn't compelled to tell you why you are under arrest or what you are being charged with at the time of arrest, so for your sake don't go mouthing off to a cop that he can't arrest you until he tells you. That's called resisting arrest and may escalate to you getting forcefully cuffed, at which point you will file a false civil rights lawsuit and waste tax payer money.

Quote:Also, a cop isn't compelled to tell you why you are under arrest or what you are being charged with at the time of arrest, so for your sake don't go mouthing off to a cop that he can't arrest you until he tells you. That's called resisting arrest and may escalate to you getting forcefully cuffed, at which point you will file a false civil rights lawsuit and waste tax payer money.

I'm not that stupid. Again, I'm not one of those YouTube clowns that tapes officers coming and going from HQ, records other people's traffic stops or does anything else to make cops uncomfortable. I know my rights, I hold to them, and that's that. If an officer tells me I'm being detained, I'm going to want to know why. If an officer tells me that I'm under arrest, I'm not going to argue about it. I'd sit down, shut up and wait for a lawyer before opening my mouth again. I would never rule out filing a civil rights lawsuit if I were to be falsely arrested, but I'm certainly not going to undermine my own case by resisting and removing the "falsely" part of that phrase.

 

If black men and cops were truly treated the same after killing someone, there would be a lot more cops in jail.

Plain and simple: There would be a lot more cops in jail if there were a lot more guilty cops.

Quote:Plain and simple: There would be a lot more cops in jail if there were a lot more guilty cops.

There would be a lot more cops in jail if people (and, therefore, juries) weren't indoctrinated from kindergarten to see them as infallible authority figures, always acting selflessly in the best interests of every law-abiding citizen. It only takes one juror whose only contact with law enforcement throughout their entire life was meeting "Officer Friendly" once a year from K-5 to block a conviction.

Quote:There would be a lot more cops in jail if people (and, therefore, juries) weren't indoctrinated from kindergarten to see them as infallible authority figures, always acting selflessly in the best interests of every law-abiding citizen. It only takes one juror whose only contact with law enforcement throughout their entire life was meeting "Officer Friendly" once a year from K-5 to block a conviction.

There is a such thing as jury selection. The DA's of this country must be idiots to repeatedly select indoctrinated juries over and over and over again.


Whether you like it or not, there is always a gun involved when you fight a cop. You take your life in your own hands when putting your hands on an officer. If you are winning the fight, the cop WILL shoot you. Its that simple. There is no law enforcement training in the US where losing a fight is ok. They all teach you that you win, no matter what. More lives would be spared if dumb people realized that fighting a cop isn't like some random bar fight. Its ALWAYS life and death.

Quote:Plain and simple: There would be a lot more cops in jail if there were a lot more guilty cops.

There will be a lot more cops in jail due to body cameras. As we are already seeing. This will have a side effect of weeding out the truly bad cops. 

Quote:Also will having more body cameras. As we are already seeing. This will have a side effect of weeding out the truly bad cops.

I don't disagree, although its not the end-all-be-all. Cameras have their issues as well.

Quote:I don't disagree, although its not the end-all-be-all. Cameras have their issues as well.

Like what? An officer can claim that he feared for his life when he killed an unarmed man. A perp can claim that he was cooperating when an officer tased him for trying to wrestle his way out of handcuffs. A camera exposes the truth in both situations.