Quote:It always amuses me that part of the American tradition is to "hate" politicians" but claim to love Democracy.
Who do you think runs our democracy? Are electricians "tainted" by their system? There are good and bad in all professions, and I don't know about you but I'd prefer some experience with how democracy works from my Chief Executive Officer - which is why I tend to favor Governors among my politicians.
You confuse statesmen with politicians. There is no redeeming quality in a politician. None. Nyet. Zilch and Zero! They only look out for themselves and those that got them into office. A statesman however has a real job outside of the Beltway, looks out for the people and not the $. Sadly there are none these days
Quote:You confuse statesmen with politicians. There is no redeeming quality in a politician. None. Nyet. Zilch and Zero! They only look out for themselves and those that got them into office. A statesman however has a real job outside of the Beltway, looks out for the people and not the $. Sadly there are none these days
That's an incredibly ignorant statement. You profess to know the pluses and minuses of each Representative and Senator?
You are part of the problem, not the solution. Just spouting blather and pretending you have a clue. So when was this golden age when all politicians were "statesmen" and not "politicians"?
I guess you'd much prefer a dictatorship? You don't seem to have much knowledge about democracy.
Quote:That's an incredibly ignorant statement. You profess to know the pluses and minuses of each Representative and Senator?
You are part of the problem, not the solution. Just spouting blather and pretending you have a clue. So when was this golden age when all politicians were "statesmen" and not "politicians"?
I guess you'd much prefer a dictatorship? You don't seem to have much knowledge about democracy.
The idea was that the career oriented people would leave their careers to serve as politicians for a time then return to their careers, not that being politician would be their career.
Quote:The idea was that the career oriented people would leave their careers to serve as politicians for a time then return to their careers, not that being politician would be their career.
And this was how it worked in the early days of the US. Washington and Jefferson went back to farming. The first "career politicians" at the federal level didn't really emerge until 30-40 years after Washington took office. Martin Van Buren was a prominent early example, but it wasn't really commonplace until the late 1800's for someone to have very little to no experience outside of politics.
Quote:The idea was that the career oriented people would leave their careers to serve as politicians for a time then return to their careers, not that being politician would be their career.
I don't have a real problem with term limits, but in what other line of work would you think experience is a bad thing?
The idea that running a government of 300+ million people is some part-time job that can be done as some type of hobby is so eighteenth century. Why don't we just leave it up to the aristocrats and bureaucrats? Is that your plan?
The idea that you can just pick someone of the street to be a member of the Ways and Means Committee is part of the American Mythology - but has never been true. And anyone who thinks it is true is hopelessly childish.
Quote:The idea was that the career oriented people would leave their careers to serve as politicians for a time then return to their careers, not that being politician would be their career.
That's the problem with today's politics. It's become a career rather than a "duty" or a service to the American people.
Quote:That's the problem with today's politics. It's become a career rather than a "duty" or a service to the American people.
We've come a long way from the days of Cincinnatus.
Quote:That's the problem with today's politics. It's become a career rather than a "duty" or a service to the American people.
Hate to break it to you, but it hasn't been a "duty" or "service" for about 150 years - except for rich aristocrats. And like I said, do you think governing should be some sort of hobby for the well to do?
Is that why so many seem to be ok with having Ivy League educated lawyers tell us how to live? And yet the "regular" people who are politicians get ridiculed for being "career politicians".
Which way do you want it?
Quote:Hate to break it to you, but it hasn't been a "duty" or "service" for about 150 years - except for rich aristocrats. And like I said, do you think governing should be some sort of hobby for the well to do?
Is that why so many seem to be ok with having Ivy League educated lawyers tell us how to live? And yet the "regular" people who are politicians get ridiculed for being "career politicians".
Which way do you want it?
Hate to break it to you, but yes "serving" in public office is a duty and service, the same way that serving in the armed forces is. Term limits much like we have at the Executive Branch would certainly help change things. Just take a look at how long so many Senators and especially Representatives have been in office. Corrine "go gata" Brown has been a "representative" for over 10 years.
Being in government should not be a "hobby" for anyone. What I'm saying is that it also should not be a life-long career. Is Corrine "go gata" Brown "well to do"? (She might be now, but what about when she first went to Washington)? Is someone like Marco Rubio a "rich aristocrat"?
Quote:Hate to break it to you, but it hasn't been a "duty" or "service" for about 150 years - except for rich aristocrats. And like I said, do you think governing should be some sort of hobby for the well to do?
Is that why so many seem to be ok with having Ivy League educated lawyers tell us how to live? And yet the "regular" people who are politicians get ridiculed for being "career politicians".
Which way do you want it?
Which side of this argument do you want? You are picking both sides. Take a look at the Congress. How many common men and women do you count? How many Ivy league lawyers?
Quote:That's an incredibly ignorant statement. You profess to know the pluses and minuses of each Representative and Senator?
You are part of the problem, not the solution. Just spouting blather and pretending you have a clue. So when was this golden age when all politicians were "statesmen" and not "politicians"?
I guess you'd much prefer a dictatorship? You don't seem to have much knowledge about democracy.
You obviously missed my point entirely. Your insult aside allow me to attempt to explain my statement. A statesman has an outside interest besides political office and advancement. He/she has roots in the community that they represent as well as an interest at to how the country fares. A politician on the other hand has but one concern in life, getting re-elected. They have limited knowledge of the working class, have not had a real job in several years and consider what goes on inside the beltway as real life.
Dictatorship? Geesh how did you arrive to that conclusion?
As to my knowledge concerning democracy, our form of government as laid out by our founding fathers is a representative republic. You may want to look that up.
Quote:Hate to break it to you, but yes "serving" in public office is a duty and service, the same way that serving in the armed forces is. Term limits much like we have at the Executive Branch would certainly help change things. Just take a look at how long so many Senators and especially Representatives have been in office. Corrine "go gata" Brown has been a "representative" for over 10 years.
Being in government should not be a "hobby" for anyone. What I'm saying is that it also should not be a life-long career. Is Corrine "go gata" Brown "well to do"? (She might be now, but what about when she first went to Washington)? Is someone like Marco Rubio a "rich aristocrat"?
Serving in Congress, like serving in the military, is a job. Should being a doctor not be a life-long career? Why should that be different? Or would you rather be represented by people like me or you; many seem to think anyone can just walk in off the street and be a good Congressman/woman. But people want to complain that "those politicians" don't know what they are doing.
Feel free to run against Corrine Brown any time. I'm sure you know what's best for the people in her district.
Any specific reason you mentioned Brown but not Ander Crenshaw?
Quote:You obviously missed my point entirely. Your insult aside allow me to attempt to explain my statement. A statesman has an outside interest besides political office and advancement. He/she has roots in the community that they represent as well as an interest at to how the country fares. A politician on the other hand has but one concern in life, getting re-elected. They have limited knowledge of the working class, have not had a real job in several years and consider what goes on inside the beltway as real life.
Dictatorship? Geesh how did you arrive to that conclusion?
As to my knowledge concerning democracy, our form of government as laid out by our founding fathers is a representative republic. You may want to look that up.
I'm sorry, but you're just bloviating here. Are you Madame Ruby? You know which Reps. and Senators "has an interest at how the county fares" and which ones don't? Let me guess - the ones that agree with you are the "statesmen" and the ones that don't are the ones that only care about getting reelected. Funny how that works.
You don't seem to want a representative republic (I looked it up!). You want a House of Lords.
Quote:Serving in Congress, like serving in the military, is a job. Should being a doctor not be a life-long career? Why should that be different? Or would you rather be represented by people like me or you; many seem to think anyone can just walk in off the street and be a good Congressman/woman. But people want to complain that "those politicians" don't know what they are doing.
Feel free to run against Corrine Brown any time. I'm sure you know what's best for the people in her district.
Any specific reason you mentioned Brown but not Ander Crenshaw?
Serving in Congress and serving in the military is like comparing apples to oranges as far as I'm concerned (by the way that you describe it). While yes, in the military you are given a "job", but you are also serving your country by performing your duties as directed by people above you. There are also limits regarding how long one can serve in the military, and you are not elected to serve, you are under contract to serve.
I want to be represented by someone who is qualified to perform the duties of their office. Background, education and experience are important factors for me when selecting who I would vote for.
As far as running against Corrine "go gata" Brown, I have no desire to enter the world of politics, though I do think that even I can do a better job than she has/does.
I mentioned Corrine "go gata" Brown because I happen to live in her district.
Any other questions?
Quote:I'm sorry, but you're just bloviating here. Are you Madame Ruby? You know which Reps. and Senators "has an interest at how the county fares" and which ones don't? Let me guess - the ones that agree with you are the "statesmen" and the ones that don't are the ones that only care about getting reelected. Funny how that works.
You don't seem to want a representative republic (I looked it up!). You want a House of Lords.
Quote:I'm sorry, but you're just bloviating here. Are you Madame Ruby? You know which Reps. and Senators "has an interest at how the county fares" and which ones don't? Let me guess - the ones that agree with you are the "statesmen" and the ones that don't are the ones that only care about getting reelected. Funny how that works.
You don't seem to want a representative republic (I looked it up!). You want a House of Lords.
Are you even reading my post or just skimming key words? How you draw your conclusions are incomprehensible to me. With that said let me try again:
For some reason you seem to be in love with the idea of a 90 year old man dozing through half of the senate meetings he attends then voting a party line just because he has experience in office. I counter that notion that common men rotating in and out of political office also have experience, it is called life experience. Serving 30 years or more in politics does not make you a genius, it makes you bought and paid for by the powers that put you there. That to me is what a politician is, one who serves the man behind the dollars that keep him in office.
On the other hand why can't a janitor serve in the house of representatives for 8 years? How about a restaurant owner? An electronics engineer? A district manager for any company? I advocate putting these people in office. Each one has unique skills that lawyers and professional politicians do not possess. Yet somehow in your mind that concept constitutes me wanting a "House of Lords"
Quote:Are you even reading my post or just skimming key words? How you draw your conclusions are incomprehensible to me. With that said let me try again:
For some reason you seem to be in love with the idea of a 90 year old man dozing through half of the senate meetings he attends then voting a party line just because he has experience in office. I counter that notion that common men rotating in and out of political office also have experience, it is called life experience. Serving 30 years or more in politics does not make you a genius, it makes you bought and paid for by the powers that put you there. That to me is what a politician is, one who serves the man behind the dollars that keep him in office.
On the other hand why can't a janitor serve in the house of representatives for 8 years? How about a restaurant owner? An electronics engineer? A district manager for any company? I advocate putting these people in office. Each one has unique skills that lawyers and professional politicians do not possess. Yet somehow in your mind that concept constitutes me wanting a "House of Lords"
Nothing wrong with any of those people/professions running for office. Many don't, however, because the title of "politician" has been so denigrated by people like you. Why would they want to listen to people like you who has judged them without knowing a thing about them?
You know nothing about 95% of those who serve in Congress, yet they are all slime balls to you. Unfortunately others have taken the same lazy, easy way to talk about politics, so it gets harder and harder to recruit a wide spectrum of people to run.
When are you going to give it a shot? You obviously think you are so far above the average politician in morals and intelligence. But you'll sit on the sidelines and take potshots that are unoriginal and mostly untrue.
And how about showing us that research that shows that there are no restaurant owners, electronic engineers, or janitors currently in Congress.
Quote:Nothing wrong with any of those people/professions running for office. Many don't, however, because the title of "politician" has been so denigrated by people like you. Why would they want to listen to people like you who has judged them without knowing a thing about them?
You know nothing about 95% of those who serve in Congress, yet they are all slime balls to you. Unfortunately others have taken the same lazy, easy way to talk about politics, so it gets harder and harder to recruit a wide spectrum of people to run.
When are you going to give it a shot? You obviously think you are so far above the average politician in morals and intelligence. But you'll sit on the sidelines and take potshots that are unoriginal and mostly untrue.
And how about showing us that research that shows that there are no restaurant owners, electronic engineers, or janitors currently in Congress.
https://www.senate.gov/CRSReports/crs-pu...%5CC%3F%0A
Obviously you are incapable of understanding my point. You win. Have a nice day.
DEMOCRATS:
Former Governors:
Lincoln Chafee (RI)
Martin O'Malley (MD)
REPUBLICANS:
Former Governors:
Jeb Bush (FL)
Chris Christie (NJ)
Bob Ehrlich (MD)
Jim Gilmore (VA)
Bobby Jindal (LA)
John Kasich (OH)
George Pataki (NY)
Rick Perry (TX)
Scott Walker (WI)
Side note:
Justice Party
Rocky Anderson - Mayor Salt LakeCity (UT)
--------------------------
A lot of Governors from the Rep. side to chose from...
Quote:I mentioned Corrine "go gata" Brown because I happen to live in her district.
How is Brown's pronunciation of Gator relevant?