This is spot on.  ^^^

 

The fact that there are so few insurers creates what you call collusion.  I'm not saying collusion is the wrong word to use, but it is illegal.  The problem is that we have politicians that have been bought out by so many of these industries that collusion is ignored.  

 

When we have only a few companies in the market, and entrance into the market is darn near impossible, it doesn't matter how big or small the market is in terms of interstate commerce.  They all know what the other is doing.  Heck, most of them have shares in eachother, and the board of directors are usually within the same industry as well.

 

When you have oligopolies, you don't have a free market.  The only way to have a free market is to regulate it in order to protect it.  Yes, regulation is needed, otherwise the free market is destroyed by monopolies and oligopolies.  As we are seeing now.

Not to mention in industries such as big oil, the oil companies blame the gas prices on the refineries which the oil companies do not directly own...However, most of the major shareholders of the refineries are the same major shareholders of the big oil companies...I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see the same names and faces on different companies BOD and the same major shareholders in different companies in the health care industry as well...

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Not to mention in industries such as big oil, the oil companies blame the gas prices on the refineries which the oil companies do not directly own...However, most of the major shareholders of the refineries are the same major shareholders of the big oil companies...I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see the same names and faces on different companies BOD and the same major shareholders in different companies in the health care industry as well...

 

 

All you have to do is look at the SEC filings of these companies, sometimes they even put it in thier Annual Reports.  

 

For instance, Cardinal Health...  They are an insurance holding company.  They have dozens of subsidiaries that provide health insurance all over the country.  They are all centrally organized and basically set the price.  Each subsidiary is controlled by the parent.  So to think that selling across state lines is gonna make a difference really hasn't thought it through, or is not up to speed on how big business works now.  Most industries are consolidated into a few major holding companies...  These few holding companies are segmented into subsidiaries that do the same thing under different names.  There is a false appearance of competition, if you are not paying attention or aren't working in the field...  

 

Here's the list of Cardinal Health's subsidiaries:  http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/7...dex211.htm

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All you have to do is look at the SEC filings of these companies, sometimes they even put it in thier Annual Reports.  

 

For instance, Cardinal Health...  They are an insurance holding company.  They have dozens of subsidiaries that provide health insurance all over the country.  They are all centrally organized and basically set the price.  Each subsidiary is controlled by the parent.  So to think that selling across state lines is gonna make a difference really hasn't thought it through, or is not up to speed on how big business works now.  Most industries are consolidated into a few major holding companies..
.  These few holding companies are segmented into subsidiaries that do the same thing under different names.  There is a false appearance of competition, if you are not paying attention or aren't working in the field..
.  

 

Here's the list of Cardinal Health's subsidiaries:  http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/7...dex211.htm

That's in every industry today...Pepsi owns several large companies, Kraft owns quite a few...There are a few companies that own many other companies that no one knows about...Pizza Hut, KFC, and Taco Bell were owned by Pepsi,  Fritos, Lays, Doritos Tropicana, Ruffles, Gatorade, Quaker,  and others are still owned by Pepsi co...

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That's in every industry today...Pepsi owns several large companies, Kraft owns quite a few...There are a few companies that own many other companies that no one knows about...Pizza Hut, KFC, and Taco Bell were owned by Pepsi,  Fritos, Lays, Doritos Tropicana, Ruffles, Gatorade, Quaker,  and others are still owned by Pepsi co...

 

 

And the media as well.  , Look at your cable TV.  You have hundreds of channels, but they are owned by only a few companies.  Disney owns ESPN, ABC, ABCFamily, History Channel, etc...  

 

Rupert owns all the Fox Channels, just recently bought the Wall Street Journal, etc...

 

Comcast owns NBC, Bravo, USA Network, etc...  

 

It's ridiculous.  So all we have is a whole bunch of the same thing, the corporate point of view.  And again, these guys all serve on the same big board of directors.  They are all in on it.  

 

And you know why it's happened?  Because we thought less regulation would be better for a free market.  Yeah, right.  That's a lie that they told conservatives, but it's still a lie

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And the media as well.  , Look at your cable TV.  You have hundreds of channels, but they are owned by only a few companies.  Disney owns ESPN, ABC, ABCFamily, History Channel, etc...  

 

Rupert owns all the Fox Channels, just recently bought the Wall Street Journal, etc...

 

Comcast owns NBC, Bravo, USA Network, etc...  

 

It's ridiculous.  So all we have is a whole bunch of the same thing, the corporate point of view.  And again, these guys all serve on the same big board of directors.  They are all in on it.  

 

And you know why it's happened?  Because we thought less regulation would be better for a free market.  Yeah, right.  That's a lie that they told conservatives, but it's still a lie

I'm not a big fan of regulation, but when it's needed you can't be without it...It's really not a free market when the same few people own the majority of an industry, or at least sit on the BOD of several "different" companies with the same parent company...

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I didn't say it would be a bad thing, it's just not necessary for all
health care providers to do so...There is enough national coverage health care providers to compete with clients that it's leaving enough room for smaller local/regional health care companies to pick up their local markets and do pretty nicely with cheaper premiums for more localized coverage areas...The only difference would be that there would be more health care providers to choose from that have larger or national coverages...It wouldn't be a bad thing, it's just not necessary...


One thing is, for every health care provider to sell across state lines will do one of two things...it will cause competition and premium prices will drop, or it will simply be another health care provider that prices according to where the other national providers are at so all the national health care providers would stay practically the same...I don't believe the free market would change anything...I believe it would simply be similar to gas pricing...All of the gas prices generally stay within a few pennies of each other in the same general area ( or neighborhood)...When one goes up, they all go up, when one goes down, they all go down...

Maybe I just dont understand. It seems to me if they sold across state lines they would be national and in line with other national carriers. In my limited knowledge of this it would stand to reason competition would jump therefore lowering prices (premiums) for citizens. This is good no?

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Maybe I just dont understand. It seems to me if they sold across state lines they would be national and in line with other national carriers. In my limited knowledge of this it would stand to reason competition would jump therefore lowering prices (premiums) for citizens. This is good no?

 

Sold nationally yes, but according to the Insurance Commission of their home state. Then you'd have state governments in a race to the bottom to bring those large companies to their states which would lead to both tax incentives and a reduction in regulation. Eventually all insurance companies would be based out of the state most willing to prostitute itself to them. Premiums are really a non-issue for insurance companies, they are effectively finance and investment companies that dabble in healthcare.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Maybe I just dont understand. It seems to me if they sold across state lines they would be national and in line with other national carriers. In my limited knowledge of this it would stand to reason competition would jump therefore lowering prices (premiums) for citizens. This is good no?

Your assumption about competition is correct. But the reality is that only a few parent corporations own all the insurers across the nation.


So opening up options across state lines doesn't increase the competition.


I gave the example of cardinal health. It's the same with the few other big insurers. When you pull the veil down, you see only a few insurers that drive the price.

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Maybe I just dont understand. It seems to me if they sold across state lines they would be national and in line with other national carriers. In my limited knowledge of this it would stand to reason competition would jump therefore lowering prices (premiums) for citizens. This is good no?

The problem would be (as The_Anchorman) explained is that there are very few independent health care providers...The majority of health care providers have a parent company which own several BIG health care companies within itself...So in actuality, there are just a few separate parent companies who own the  majority of the health care industry...

 

To compound this, most of the Board of Directors (BOD) of the parent companies, sit on all of (or most of),the parent companies, and there are many directors/CEO/executives sitting on the subsidiaries of several different health care providers BOD other than their own parent company...To make it easier to understand, the majority of all the major stockholders and executives of most of the BIG health care providers are all the same people even though by appearance and company name, they are separate...When the majority of an industry is owned by the same people there is no competition... 

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