- We don't know how Bouye will work in Jax. (see Davon House, Julius Thomas)

 

- Colvin is kind of overrated here. Still has a lot to prove.

 

- Injuries happens. You can never have enough quality players.

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1. They were positions of strength.


Not a particularly difficult concept to grasp.


2. How do you define "high end veteran?" Lawrence Taylor was in his 4th year when Banks was drafted, and Banks did not play behind him. He was a rookie starter opposite Taylor. Bouye is now a 5th year player. Erik Williams was a 4th year player when Larry Allen was drafted.


But if you want to move the goalposts so to speak, the Giants STILL illustrate my point when they had Michael Strahan (vet) and then added Osi Umeniyiora in 2003, Justin Tuck in 2005, and Mathias Kiwanuka in 2006. When the Giants last won the Super Bowl in 2011, they had Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz and Mario Manningham-all of whom were 25 and younger. The next year's draft they added Reuben Randle in the 2nd round, and in 2014 they added OBJ.

The early Giants ran a 3/4, getting another backer wouldnt be odd when you need 7 of them. Erik Williams played tackle, Allen plyed guard. The Giants defensive linemen all played at the same time and Kiwonuka played more linebacker than end so those 3 all played different positions. Nix was already old, Manningham was an almost bust level disappointment at the time.


None of those are really the same as adding an expensive egomaniac who wont see the field.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

The early Giants ran a 3/4, getting another backer wouldnt be odd when you need 7 of them. Erik Williams played tackle, Allen plyed guard. The Giants defensive linemen all played at the same time and Kiwonuka played more linebacker than end so those 3 all played different positions. Nix was already old, Manningham was an almost bust level disappointment at the time.


None of those are really the same as adding an expensive egomaniac who wont see the field.

1.  Yes those Giants were a 3-4, but even without Banks, their LB unit was a strength compared to other areas of their team.  I never said it would be odd or unreasonable to add him, only that adding him is building on an area of strength.

 

2.  Yes Allen was a G, but he also had the ability to play T, as was evident when Erik Williams got hurt and when Tuinei retired.  But that aside, it still doesn't change the fact the Dallas offensive line was considered a strength in 1992-1994.  In 1993, they had three offensive linemen that went to the Pro Bowl, including G Nate Newton.  They were 2nd in rushing yards with Emmitt Smith missing the first two games due to his holdout.  Offensively they were 2nd in points.  The OL had something to do with that.  Do you somehow DENY this?

 

3.  Yes Kiwanuka played mostly LB in the pros, but was a college DE.  He was moved to LB in an effort to get him on the field  It doesn't change the fact they drafted a DE to a position that was already a strength.

 

4.  Hakeem Nicks was 24 years old in 2012.  That's only old to a pre-teen.  Victor Cruz  was 26.  Again, not old by any reasonable sense of the word.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/te...g/2012.htm

 

5.  I said I was opposed to adding Sherman to this team.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Ignoring potentially available talent because you believe it is already a position of strength is a recipe for a sub par franchise. Same scenario as need based drafting.

^completely agree with this.

Stocking up talent in a position is a good thing.


I don't want the Jags to get Sherman,, but NOT for that reason (already having good CBs).


Sherman is one of the "faces" of the NFL recently.

- He's been on national TV nearly every week

- Played in a ton of high-profile games

- Been highlighted and interviewed on all the main sports networks with great popularity.

- Played with a winning/successful team for some time now.


Can you just imagine a guy like that going to Jacksonville? He'd be going from one of the "faces" of the NFL to obscurity.

- The Jags are NEVER on national broadcasts, with the exception of 1 crappy Thursday night game against Tenn or Houston (which is usually the Lowest View Ratings of the year anyway)

- The Jags have been a bottom-feeder losing team for what seems like forever (Browns and Jags are the laughing stocks of the league:: it's sad but true)


I just can't picture it working out well with Sherman. Just like another poster said, it would likely end in a disaster; especially if the Jags have another sub-.500 season and are in virtual obscurity on a national level.


Just can't see it.

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1.  They were positions of strength.

 

Not a particularly difficult concept to grasp.

 

2.  How do you define "high end veteran?"  Lawrence Taylor was in his 4th year when Banks was drafted, and Banks did not play behind him.  He was a rookie starter opposite Taylor.  Bouye is now a 5th year player.  Erik Williams was a 4th year player when Larry Allen was drafted.

 

But if you want to move the goalposts so to speak, the Giants STILL illustrate my point when they had Michael Strahan (vet) and then added Osi Umeniyiora in 2003, Justin Tuck in 2005, and Mathias Kiwanuka in 2006.  When the Giants last won the Super Bowl in 2011, they had Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz and Mario Manningham-all of whom were 25 and younger.  The next year's draft they added Reuben Randle in the 2nd round, and in 2014 they added OBJ.

So we are drafting Sherman?

 

No one is saying you shouldn't bring in young talent behind an established player.

 

Please show an example of where a team pulls in the best young talent available and then after that signs a 13 million dollar veteran to basically be their back up.

 

You are the only one moving goal post here.

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So we are drafting Sherman?

 

No one is saying you shouldn't bring in young talent behind an established player.

 

Please show an example of where a team pulls in the best young talent available and then after that signs a 13 million dollar veteran to basically be their back up.

 

You are the only one moving goal post here.

 

 

 

 

This is your statement.  I responded mostly to the closing two statements, highlighted below.

Nothing amazing about not wanting to bring in a high priced CB right after acquiring two of the best young CBs in the league.

 

What would be amazing would  to continue to dump your resources on a position that may already be your greatest strength considering all of the weaknesses you have at other positions. This would be the perfect example of how not to improve you team.

(Emphasis added)

 

While the general conversation focused on trading for Sherman, this statement was broad enough to encompass drafting as well.  Draft picks ARE resources, are they not?

 

That is why I responded the way I did.  First, I clarified I would be opposed to trading for Sherman.  Then I gave supporting statements/examples why building to a team's strength is not necessarily a bad approach.  The examples I cited showed teams that improved by building to strengths.

 

You turned around and put the qualifier about the ages of the players already on the roster...not me.  You made ZERO reference (explicitly or tacitly) of the ages of the players until I responded.  I spoke to team strengths generally and remained consistent, both in my initial response to you and the adjusted response accounting for age.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

This is your statement.  I responded mostly to the closing two statements, highlighted below.

(Emphasis added)

 

While the general conversation focused on trading for Sherman, this statement was broad enough to encompass drafting as well.  Draft picks ARE resources, are they not?

 

That is why I responded the way I did.  First, I clarified I would be opposed to trading for Sherman.  Then I gave supporting statements/examples why building to a team's strength is not necessarily a bad approach.  The examples I cited showed teams that improved by building to strengths.

 

You turned around and put the qualifier about the ages of the players already on the roster...not me.  You made ZERO reference (explicitly or tacitly) of the ages of the players until I responded.  I spoke to team strengths generally and remained consistent, both in my initial response to you and the adjusted response accounting for age.

I never mentioned anything about trading for Sherman. The statement you quoted from me explicitly addresses the fact that we would be bringing in a high priced veteran after bringing in two of the top young talents in the league. That is a complete reference to their ages. No qualifiers added. Maybe you should read what you are arguing against before you try to make an argument.

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Nothing. Draft Lattimore

 

Agreed. Might as well keep it young and not have to worry about trying to resign him to another big time deal two years from now on top of forking over valuable draft positions this year. 

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I would sign Sherman and Peterson.

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So we are drafting Sherman?


No one is saying you shouldn't bring in young talent behind an established player.


Please show an example of where a team pulls in the best young talent available and then after that signs a 13 million dollar veteran to basically be their back up.


You are the only one moving goal post here.

Thanks, I didn't want to type all that!

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I would sign Sherman and Peterson.

Sherman isnt getting cut, so that's not an option.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It's extremely surprising to see the Jags in a position to not go after an elite corner in Sherman but I think we're finally set at that position. We need full attention on offense, this defense is stacked and we still have the draft. 

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It's extremely surprising to see the Jags in a position to not go after an elite corner in Sherman but I think we're finally set at that position. We need full attention on offense, this defense is stacked and we still have the draft. 

I think Sherman started his descent from elite to just "really good" two years ago. 

 

In three more years he'll be where Revis is now. 

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Pass. He's never been the same since that OT slapped him. His mojo is gone.

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Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.

So draft Lattimore?

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Look like the Seahawks are listening to offers for him.

 

He is 29 years old (today, happy birthday...), 2 years left on his contract ($13 millions both year).

 

What would you give for him ?

 

Ramsey - Sherman - Bouye - Colvin.....

Nothing, don't want him. Ok, I would give Gene Smiths old contract. But thats it.

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Guess this account is the one now? Rip HR86 2010-2017.

CRABTREE!

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

- We don't know how Bouye will work in Jax. (see Davon House, Julius Thomas)

 

- Colvin is kind of overrated here. Still has a lot to prove.

 

- Injuries happens. You can never have enough quality players.

Bouye was better than either of those players tho (Thomas had one good year 2 years before we signed, and House was like 4th string on GB), but your point is still valid. I think its more of Mike Peterson kind of deal tho.

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Guess this account is the one now? Rip HR86 2010-2017.