2 preseason games since he last played 8 months ago and he looks better. Sorry if I actually have eyes and can see. Some of you just want to gripe for the sake of griping.

You are entitled to your opinion, but stats and facts disagree with you unfortunately.

Keep believing what you want, you're bound to be right one of these days. It's just not today.

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You either die as a good poster, or live long enough to become the troll.

You are entitled to your opinion, but stats and facts disagree with you unfortunately.

Keep believing what you want, you're bound to be right one of these days. It's just not today.

What exactly are you arguing here? Are you saying that Fowler was good yesterday? Are you arguing that he is "better" than usual? Are you arguing that he justified his draft position? Did you watch the starting unit play?

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The dline literally looked worse than last season.

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The dline literally looked worse than last season.

It certainly didn't look any better, thats for sure

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The fact that Dave selected Smoot, who by The way looks awful, over a guard when there was good options still on the board says a lot.

Dave doesn't have final say over the draft, Coughlin does...You of all people should remember that since you made it clear that you believed Caldwell was demoted and had no say in anything anymore, yet now you want to criticize Caldwell for drafting a player you don't like...

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How UNLUCKY is this team to go from Gene "small school only" Smith, to this [BLEEP] Dave "I blow all my first round picks" Caldwell???

I'm beginning to think the "Curse" is real.

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Well, I hate to say this because I like Dave and have been pulling for him, but the answer is "probably so".  He's done some good things in Jacksonville, but I never understood the Bortles/Fowler picks and, frankly, using a top five pick on a quarterback that you have to teach how to throw is just completely inexcusable.

His position seems redundant at this point, anyway.  What is he for all practical purposes? Glorified Head Scout? Assistant to the Regional Manager?

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I started saying last year that he is also be part of the problem...all this "talent" you guys were claiming the team had, in reality it just isnt there.

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I hate to say it, because I have always supported Caldwell, but walking in to the office this morning I was thinking about all the blown draft picks and wondering if it was time for Dave to go. Things have to turn around in a big hurry to save his job.

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Fans like you are a joke. You won't even let a new staff make it to its first regular season game before calling for their heads. I'm done with fans like you. Shut up and get lost.

and we are sick of fans like you allowing this team to suck for years before you finally OK a change

His point is valid.  This staff, regardless of carryover, is a new staff that installed new terminology and play books for all three units.  We're 2 preseason games into this thing.  Demanding the entire staff be dumped now is nothing more than the typical knee jerk reaction from fans after a loss.  

At the end of the day, the coaching staff we have today, regardless of who was here last year, is better because the focus has changed.  If a complete gutting of the staff was needed, Coughlin would have lit the fuse on that right away after assuming his new role.  He didn't.  It's okay to give Marrone and his staff some time to show what they can do with this roster.  If the team continues to struggle as things progress, I'm more inclined to put that on the talent than the coaching.  Marrone is a leaps and bounds improvement over the guy he replaced.  

The fact that this coaching staff isn't just going with Bortles because of his pedigree, and they're opening that position battle up completely to get the best possible option shows how the change is there. It requires some time for them to do what needs to be done to get this team in the right place to succeed. Not 4 years, but definitely more than 2 practice games.

There was significant turnover on the coaching staff despite the fact that the coordinators for O and D remain the same.  Both current coordinators were running someone else's system last year, so change happened there.  To say the team has to suck for years before some folks will accept change is ludicrous because change happened.  You have to give it SOME time to play out.  Two preseason games is premature, but I'm sure you're fine with that.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

and we are sick of fans like you allowing this team to suck for years before you finally OK a change

His point is valid.  This staff, regardless of carryover, is a new staff that installed new terminology and play books for all three units.  We're 2 preseason games into this thing.  Demanding the entire staff be dumped now is nothing more than the typical knee jerk reaction from fans after a loss.  

At the end of the day, the coaching staff we have today, regardless of who was here last year, is better because the focus has changed.  If a complete gutting of the staff was needed, Coughlin would have lit the fuse on that right away after assuming his new role.  He didn't.  It's okay to give Marrone and his staff some time to show what they can do with this roster.  If the team continues to struggle as things progress, I'm more inclined to put that on the talent than the coaching.  Marrone is a leaps and bounds improvement over the guy he replaced.  

The fact that this coaching staff isn't just going with Bortles because of his pedigree, and they're opening that position battle up completely to get the best possible option shows how the change is there.  It requires some time for them to do what needs to be done to get this team in the right place to succeed.  Not  4 years, but definitely more than 2 practice games.

There was significant turnover on the coaching staff despite the fact that the coordinators for O and D remain the same.  Both current coordinators were running someone else's system last year, so change happened there.  To say the team has to suck for years before some folks will accept change is ludicrous because change happened.  You have to give it SOME time to play out.  Two preseason games is premature, but I'm sure you're fine with that.

I tend to agree with this, give this "re-jigged" staff & leadership some time beyond 2 pre-season games.  HOWEVER, this re-jigged staff would seem complicit in what are some blatantly obvious and lethal mistakes that should have been dealt with a long time ago - i.e. just now addressing the QB situation for starters (npi), OL, and arguably kicker to a much lesser impact.  So color me pessimistic on them at this point, but totally hope they prove me wrong.  And Tom (and/or Shahid), please show Dave the door now, he for one has been here all along and the primary author of this horror story.  At least send the message to the fanbase that incompetence won't be tolerated any longer, including in the FO.

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His point is valid.  This staff, regardless of carryover, is a new staff that installed new terminology and play books for all three units.  We're 2 preseason games into this thing.  Demanding the entire staff be dumped now is nothing more than the typical knee jerk reaction from fans after a loss.  

At the end of the day, the coaching staff we have today, regardless of who was here last year, is better because the focus has changed.  If a complete gutting of the staff was needed, Coughlin would have lit the fuse on that right away after assuming his new role.  He didn't.  It's okay to give Marrone and his staff some time to show what they can do with this roster.  If the team continues to struggle as things progress, I'm more inclined to put that on the talent than the coaching.  Marrone is a leaps and bounds improvement over the guy he replaced.  

The fact that this coaching staff isn't just going with Bortles because of his pedigree, and they're opening that position battle up completely to get the best possible option shows how the change is there.  It requires some time for them to do what needs to be done to get this team in the right place to succeed.  Not  4 years, but definitely more than 2 practice games.

There was significant turnover on the coaching staff despite the fact that the coordinators for O and D remain the same.  Both current coordinators were running someone else's system last year, so change happened there.  To say the team has to suck for years before some folks will accept change is ludicrous because change happened.  You have to give it SOME time to play out.  Two preseason games is premature, but I'm sure you're fine with that.

I tend to agree with this, give this "re-jigged" staff & leadership some time beyond 2 pre-season games.  HOWEVER, this re-jigged staff would seem complicit in what are some blatantly obvious and lethal mistakes that should have been dealt with a long time ago - i.e. just now addressing the QB situation for starters (npi), OL, and arguably kicker to a much lesser impact.  So color me pessimistic on them at this point, but totally hope they prove me wrong.  And Tom (and/or Shahid), please show Dave the door now, he for one has been here all along and the primary author of this horror story.  At least send the message to the fanbase that incompetence won't be tolerated any longer, including in the FO.

The coaching staff can't really be held accountable for the personnel decisions that Coughlin and Caldwell made.

Tom gets at least somewhat of a pass because of the timing of his hire and the level of effort required to rebuild the roster in a way that allowed it to turn around quickly.  

Tom evaluated the current roster when he took over, and he made the decisions on what needed to stay and what should go.  He's the one who decided to move forward with Bortles despite the fact that he's not a fan of the guy.  That tells me that Coughlin looked at what might be available in the draft, as well as what free agency had to offer at the time, and he didn't see any better options worth pursuing.  They tried to work on the OL.  Can't help it if one of your guys flakes out on you.  

I think Coughlin has made it clear incompetency won't be tolerated, but it's not possible to erase all of the damage done to the roster in a couple of months. However, I'm confident that it won't take 4 years to undo the damage done previously.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I tend to agree with this, give this "re-jigged" staff & leadership some time beyond 2 pre-season games.  HOWEVER, this re-jigged staff would seem complicit in what are some blatantly obvious and lethal mistakes that should have been dealt with a long time ago - i.e. just now addressing the QB situation for starters (npi), OL, and arguably kicker to a much lesser impact.  So color me pessimistic on them at this point, but totally hope they prove me wrong.  And Tom (and/or Shahid), please show Dave the door now, he for one has been here all along and the primary author of this horror story.  At least send the message to the fanbase that incompetence won't be tolerated any longer, including in the FO.

The coaching staff can't really be held accountable for the personnel decisions that Coughlin and Caldwell made.

Tom gets at least somewhat of a pass because of the timing of his hire and the level of effort required to rebuild the roster in a way that allowed it to turn around quickly.  

Tom evaluated the current roster when he took over, and he made the decisions on what needed to stay and what should go.  He's the one who decided to move forward with Bortles despite the fact that he's not a fan of the guy.  That tells me that Coughlin looked at what might be available in the draft, as well as what free agency had to offer at the time, and he didn't see any better options worth pursuing.  They tried to work on the OL.  Can't help it if one of your guys flakes out on you.  

I think Coughlin has made it clear incompetency won't be tolerated, but it's not possible to erase all of the damage done to the roster in a couple of months.  However, I'm confident that it won't take 4 years to undo the damage done previously.

Yep, and I'll more than give TC the benefit of the doubt still, and my only shred of real optimism today -- though admittedly it was called into question...

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Maybe he was fired last year and there was a mix up and he was never informed and payroll was accidentally still sending him paychecks.  

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If the o line ends up being an issue, then Marrone 100% should not get a pass. He was the o line coach for two years before being HC. If the players sucked, he should have been all over that.

First week, they looked fine. Second week, awful.

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If the o line ends up being an issue, then Marrone 100% should not get a pass. He was the o line coach for two years before being HC. If the players sucked, he should have been all over that.

First week, they looked fine. Second week, awful.

Since when do position coaches make personnel acquisition decisions?  They coach the bodies they're given.  If the talent isn't there, it's difficult to magically transform guys into all pro linemen.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

My biggest gripe with Dave (and Gus, the time, actually) was that we coached David Johnson in the Senior Bowl. Had an up close and personal perspective and saw him run wild against the best Seniors in his Draft Class and we didn't snatch him up in the 3rd round. I don't even scout and I was like, man they can see it up close, they should draft this guy.

My 2nd biggest gripe is taking Bortles over Mack.

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You Gotta Be Able To Run Da' Rock~

My biggest gripe with Dave (and Gus, the time, actually) was that we coached David Johnson in the Senior Bowl.  Had an up close and personal perspective and saw him run wild against the best Seniors in his Draft Class and we didn't snatch him up in the 3rd round.  I don't even scout and I was like, man they can see it up close, they should draft this guy.

My 2nd biggest gripe is taking Bortles over Mack.

They coached Derek Carr in the Senior Bowl as well, and still picked Bortles.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Yeah I think Dave Caldwell is likely gone! Does Tom Coughlin and Shahid Khan hire a new GM or does Coughlin just take over those responsiblities? That and QB will be the biggest question heading into 2018 offseason.

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Coughlin isn't a young guy, so I suspect they'd hire another GM, but the new guy would still wind up being a guy who just does what Tom says.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Did anyone notice if Coughlin's face was red last night?

Rumor has it that his pace maker was working overtime.

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