It is accurate to label the possibility of a London NFL team a "conspiracy theory".  A "conspiracy theory" is simply the idea that one or more parties are working behind the scenes to accomplish something.  We know the NFL is doing exactly that - working to bring a team to London by 2022 without publicly discussing all the machinations required to do this.  As I've said before, it will require a certain amount of deception and denial.  It just isn't possible to accomplish without misleading the fans of the targeted team.

For instance, the Colts moving to Indy was a "conspiracy theory" until the Mayflower trucks loaded up in the dead of night.  When the Baltimore fans woke up the next day, the loss of their team was no longer a "theory" but an accomplished fact.

All I'm saying is, don't be chumps.  Enjoy and support the Jaguars, but understand the owner of the eventual London team HAS TO LIE TO THE FANS.  To reveal plans for 2022 now would result in a near-empty stadium for 4 years and the NFL is well aware of this.

Exactly.  If historical teams like the Cleveland Browns and Baltimore Colts left their cities high and dry, there is no doubt in my mind that it could easily happen in Jacksonville.

But in those cases there was no denial, they openly said they were moving...I don't buy into the Jags are going to move to anywhere...I see Mr Khan investing money in London to make even more money, which is what Billionaires do...So if Mr Khan bought 100 acres of vacant usable land in Ethiopia, would y'all jump on the bandwagon saying Jags moving to Ethiopia?

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No but if he bought a world class stadium there...maybe.

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All I'm saying is, don't be chumps.  Enjoy and support the Jaguars, but understand the owner of the eventual London team HAS TO LIE TO THE FANS.  To reveal plans for 2022 now would result in a near-empty stadium for 4 years and the NFL is well aware of this.

I can appreciate that line of reasoning, but I see it differently.

I think the person assuming a negative outcome without knowing all the facts is the one being a chump here.  
Not the person adding up what facts we all have - and seeing them point to a more positive outcome. 

I'm not going to enjoy being a Jags fan if I've convinced myself that Khan is moving the team and lying to me about it. And finally, there is simply much more evidence to the contrary than evidence to support your theory.

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No but if he bought a world class stadium there...maybe.

But just as sure as a higher power made little green apples, some media group would say he bought that land to build a stadium on to move the Jags there...so would you believe that the Jags were moving to Ethiopia?

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It is accurate to label the possibility of a London NFL team a "conspiracy theory".  A "conspiracy theory" is simply the idea that one or more parties are working behind the scenes to accomplish something.  We know the NFL is doing exactly that - working to bring a team to London by 2022 without publicly discussing all the machinations required to do this.  As I've said before, it will require a certain amount of deception and denial.  It just isn't possible to accomplish without misleading the fans of the targeted team.

For instance, the Colts moving to Indy was a "conspiracy theory" until the Mayflower trucks loaded up in the dead of night.  When the Baltimore fans woke up the next day, the loss of their team was no longer a "theory" but an accomplished fact.

All I'm saying is, don't be chumps.  Enjoy and support the Jaguars, but understand the owner of the eventual London team HAS TO LIE TO THE FANS.  To reveal plans for 2022 now would result in a near-empty stadium for 4 years and the NFL is well aware of this.

Exactly.  If historical teams like the Cleveland Browns and Baltimore Colts left their cities high and dry, there is no doubt in my mind that it could easily happen in Jacksonville.

Absolutely, but not to another country.. I think that would be a tough ask..

No but if he bought a world class stadium there...maybe.

Which is yet to happen.. the English Football Association will face an incredible amount of criticism should this sale go ahead, I don't think the sale is worth the amount of backlash and boycotting they'll receive.

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All I'm saying is, don't be chumps.  Enjoy and support the Jaguars, but understand the owner of the eventual London team HAS TO LIE TO THE FANS.  To reveal plans for 2022 now would result in a near-empty stadium for 4 years and the NFL is well aware of this.

I can appreciate that line of reasoning, but I see it differently.

I think the person assuming a negative outcome without knowing all the facts is the one being a chump here.  
Not the person adding up what facts we all have - and seeing them point to a more positive outcome. 

I'm not going to enjoy being a Jags fan if I've convinced myself that Khan is moving the team and lying to me about it. And finally, there is simply much more evidence to the contrary than evidence to support your theory.

This, more than anything else.

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80% of what I talk about is nonesense.. the other 25% is made up statistics...


 

I can appreciate that line of reasoning, but I see it differently.

I think the person assuming a negative outcome without knowing all the facts is the one being a chump here.  
Not the person adding up what facts we all have - and seeing them point to a more positive outcome. 

I'm not going to enjoy being a Jags fan if I've convinced myself that Khan is moving the team and lying to me about it. And finally, there is simply much more evidence to the contrary than evidence to support your theory.

Thinking about contingencies is not being a chump.  Believing nothing will ever change is, however, chumpishly naive.  I agree there is evidence to support both views, but any fair evaluation would see the balance tilting a bit more toward London each year.  Dog park vs. bidding for Wembley, for instance.  That dropped a few small boulders on the London side of the scale.

I don't have every public statement Shad has made on the subject, but it might be instructive to parse them for vagueness or weasel-words.  

And are you sure you wouldn't still support the Jags?  Even if the team does move to London they would still have a presence here.  Maybe they would still play 1 or 2 home games here, as a palliative to the fans and as a partial solution to the logistic issues.  Also keep in mind NASA is working on a supersonic plane with reduced sonic boom.  Maybe the NFL will purchase one and assign that plane to whichever team is making the Atlantic crossing that week.

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Exactly.  If historical teams like the Cleveland Browns and Baltimore Colts left their cities high and dry, there is no doubt in my mind that it could easily happen in Jacksonville.

Absolutely, but not to another country.. I think that would be a tough ask..

The Rams are playing in the LA Coliseum until their Stadium gets built.  The Jags could play in Tottenham's news stadium until Wembley is renovated to accommodate Fulham FC and the Jags.  I think people make the logistics a lot more difficult than they really are --- and Shad knows that he may be the most powerful owner in the World if he were to have a Premier League Team and a NFL Team based in London.  A transition year may not be ideal but it's more than doable.

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I can appreciate that line of reasoning, but I see it differently.

I think the person assuming a negative outcome without knowing all the facts is the one being a chump here.  
Not the person adding up what facts we all have - and seeing them point to a more positive outcome. 

I'm not going to enjoy being a Jags fan if I've convinced myself that Khan is moving the team and lying to me about it. And finally, there is simply much more evidence to the contrary than evidence to support your theory.

Thinking about contingencies is not being a chump.  Believing nothing will ever change is, however, chumpishly naive.  I agree there is evidence to support both views, but any fair evaluation would see the balance tilting a bit more toward London each year.  Dog park vs. bidding for Wembley, for instance.  That dropped a few small boulders on the London side of the scale.

I don't have every public statement Shad has made on the subject, but it might be instructive to parse them for vagueness or weasel-words.  

And are you sure you wouldn't still support the Jags?  Even if the team does move to London they would still have a presence here.  Maybe they would still play 1 or 2 home games here, as a palliative to the fans and as a partial solution to the logistic issues.  Also keep in mind NASA is working on a supersonic plane with reduced sonic boom.  Maybe the NFL will purchase one and assign that plane to whichever team is making the Atlantic crossing that week.

The first bolded bit is inaccurate of what is taking place here. You have been pushing this London move as practically a foregone conclusion.  That isn't "thinking about contingencies."  That's making a premature assumption. Which is for chumps. 

I "thought about contingencies" plenty. I even realize that Khan may move the team at some point.  But I'm not going to naively assume that this is his clear intent right now because of a bid on a stadium  - especially when the stumbling blocks still in the way of such a move are so great and so numerous. 

It also might be instructive to consider  accurately weighing your cherry picked pros and cons -  instead of foolishly comparing a dog park to a stadium bid while ignoring a 2.5 billion dollar proposal to revitalize Jacksonville's downtown and riverfront.

To answer your final question - I'd support the Jags much less if they moved anywhere.

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Absolutely, but not to another country.. I think that would be a tough ask..

The Rams are playing in the LA Coliseum until their Stadium gets built.  The Jags could play in Tottenham's news stadium until Wembley is renovated to accommodate Fulham FC and the Jags.  I think people make the logistics a lot more difficult than they really are --- and Shad knows that he may be the most powerful owner in the World if he were to have a Premier League Team and a NFL Team based in London.  A transition year may not be ideal but it's more than doable.

Fulham isn't moving into Wembley. They don't have the fanbase to sell 90k seats every game.

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The Rams are playing in the LA Coliseum until their Stadium gets built.  The Jags could play in Tottenham's news stadium until Wembley is renovated to accommodate Fulham FC and the Jags.  I think people make the logistics a lot more difficult than they really are --- and Shad knows that he may be the most powerful owner in the World if he were to have a Premier League Team and a NFL Team based in London.  A transition year may not be ideal but it's more than doable.

Fulham isn't moving into Wembley. They don't have the fanbase to sell 90k seats every game.

Once again, you can't let these facts get in the way of hastily thrown together narrative. Sure Fulham managed barely  17k attendance at most of their home games and was on the cusp of not even making the prem league this past season. But if they moved to wembely, 65k more people will OBVIOUSLY show up every week. Plus it is very obvious a prem league top 4 team that will be competing in the UCL next season would be very happy to share white hot lane with a newly moved NFL franchise.


I think I expended all of my sarcasm for the day.

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There is some incredibly stupid [BLEEP] in this thread...

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Absolutely, but not to another country.. I think that would be a tough ask..

The Rams are playing in the LA Coliseum until their Stadium gets built.  The Jags could play in Tottenham's news stadium until Wembley is renovated to accommodate Fulham FC and the Jags.  I think people make the logistics a lot more difficult than they really are --- and Shad knows that he may be the most powerful owner in the World if he were to have a Premier League Team and a NFL Team based in London.  A transition year may not be ideal but it's more than doable.

With all due respect, Tottenham cannot host a Premier League team and an NFL franchise at the same time. It's not doable. The seasons coincide. With the NFL games being Sundays, this would block Tottenham from playing their home games on a Sunday when the NFL franchise are scheduled to be at home. Sunday Premier League games are HUGE over here. There's no way that any Premier League team bends to accommodate an NFL franchise even on a temporary basis.

Why would Wembley need to be renovated? It's a 90,000 all-seater multi-use stadium. Again, if the FA did decide to sell Wembley, they would put clauses in the way. There's no way they would sign off on it being renovated.. Wembley in it's current form is only 11 years old and there was uproar when the 'old' Wembley was knocked down to make room for this..

Fulham only averaged 22k last season (their stadium holds a shade under 26k). In their Premier League seasons they averaged 24k. There's no way Wembley would open their gates to have less than a third of the stadium full for a Premier League game and I don't know where Fulham would get a huge influx of new fans from.. bearing in mind they have QPR, Brentford and Chelsea all within relatively close proximity.

This is not to put down your opinion, understand, but this just outlines why I personally don't think those points are possible to become reality.. and, naturally, I hope I'm right. I think an expansion team would fail, I think a relocated team would work temporarily but attendances would dwindle when the novelty wears off (for a lot of fans) and on top of that, I don't want to see the Jaguars taken away from Jacksonville. I've made some good friends based over there through this franchise and, although I'm not affiliated with the city outside of the Jags, I certainly have a lot of love for it.

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80% of what I talk about is nonesense.. the other 25% is made up statistics...


 

The Rams are playing in the LA Coliseum until their Stadium gets built.  The Jags could play in Tottenham's news stadium until Wembley is renovated to accommodate Fulham FC and the Jags.  I think people make the logistics a lot more difficult than they really are --- and Shad knows that he may be the most powerful owner in the World if he were to have a Premier League Team and a NFL Team based in London.  A transition year may not be ideal but it's more than doable.

With all due respect, Tottenham cannot host a Premier League team and an NFL franchise at the same time. It's not doable. The seasons coincide. With the NFL games being Sundays, this would block Tottenham from playing their home games on a Sunday when the NFL franchise are scheduled to be at home. Sunday Premier League games are HUGE over here. There's no way that any Premier League team bends to accommodate an NFL franchise even on a temporary basis.

Why would Wembley need to be renovated? It's a 90,000 all-seater multi-use stadium. Again, if the FA did decide to sell Wembley, they would put clauses in the way. There's no way they would sign off on it being renovated.. Wembley in it's current form is only 11 years old and there was uproar when the 'old' Wembley was knocked down to make room for this..

Fulham only averaged 22k last season (their stadium holds a shade under 26k). In their Premier League seasons they averaged 24k. There's no way Wembley would open their gates to have less than a third of the stadium full for a Premier League game and I don't know where Fulham would get a huge influx of new fans from.. bearing in mind they have QPR, Brentford and Chelsea all within relatively close proximity.

This is not to put down your opinion, understand, but this just outlines why I personally don't think those points are possible to become reality.. and, naturally, I hope I'm right. I think an expansion team would fail, I think a relocated team would work temporarily but attendances would dwindle when the novelty wears off (for a lot of fans) and on top of that, I don't want to see the Jaguars taken away from Jacksonville. I've made some good friends based over there through this franchise and, although I'm not affiliated with the city outside of the Jags, I certainly have a lot of love for it.

What he said, Super Sunday is huge here with lots of ad revenues being spent and the clubs playing being handsomely rewarded. Spurs would never give that up in favour of an NFL Franchise.

Plus Fulham is south London and Wembley is North London, so it's not the same as relocating for 1 season a la Chelsea. In moving the team Shad would be gambling on losing a lot of loyal fans (fans here do not take kindly to teams moving the way American fans do) to then compete with Tottenham and Arsenal for fans... in short it would be madness.

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With all due respect, Tottenham cannot host a Premier League team and an NFL franchise at the same time. It's not doable. The seasons coincide. With the NFL games being Sundays, this would block Tottenham from playing their home games on a Sunday when the NFL franchise are scheduled to be at home. Sunday Premier League games are HUGE over here. There's no way that any Premier League team bends to accommodate an NFL franchise even on a temporary basis.

Why would Wembley need to be renovated? It's a 90,000 all-seater multi-use stadium. Again, if the FA did decide to sell Wembley, they would put clauses in the way. There's no way they would sign off on it being renovated.. Wembley in it's current form is only 11 years old and there was uproar when the 'old' Wembley was knocked down to make room for this..

Fulham only averaged 22k last season (their stadium holds a shade under 26k). In their Premier League seasons they averaged 24k. There's no way Wembley would open their gates to have less than a third of the stadium full for a Premier League game and I don't know where Fulham would get a huge influx of new fans from.. bearing in mind they have QPR, Brentford and Chelsea all within relatively close proximity.

This is not to put down your opinion, understand, but this just outlines why I personally don't think those points are possible to become reality.. and, naturally, I hope I'm right. I think an expansion team would fail, I think a relocated team would work temporarily but attendances would dwindle when the novelty wears off (for a lot of fans) and on top of that, I don't want to see the Jaguars taken away from Jacksonville. I've made some good friends based over there through this franchise and, although I'm not affiliated with the city outside of the Jags, I certainly have a lot of love for it.

What he said, Super Sunday is huge here with lots of ad revenues being spent and the clubs playing being handsomely rewarded. Spurs would never give that up in favour of an NFL Franchise.

Plus Fulham is south London and Wembley is North London, so it's not the same as relocating for 1 season a la Chelsea. In moving the team Shad would be gambling on losing a lot of loyal fans (fans here do not take kindly to teams moving the way American fans do) to then compete with Tottenham and Arsenal for fans... in short it would be madness.

You have a misperception on how American fans feel about teams moving.  The vast majority have a strong feeling of abhorrence to the practice.

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What he said, Super Sunday is huge here with lots of ad revenues being spent and the clubs playing being handsomely rewarded. Spurs would never give that up in favour of an NFL Franchise.

Plus Fulham is south London and Wembley is North London, so it's not the same as relocating for 1 season a la Chelsea. In moving the team Shad would be gambling on losing a lot of loyal fans (fans here do not take kindly to teams moving the way American fans do) to then compete with Tottenham and Arsenal for fans... in short it would be madness.

You have a misperception on how American fans feel about teams moving.  The vast majority have a strong feeling of abhorrence to the practice.

I think what UKJag means, is it's further from the norm over here than it is over there, not that it's necessarily well received..

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80% of what I talk about is nonesense.. the other 25% is made up statistics...


 

There is some incredibly stupid [BLEEP] in this thread...

Yeah. I think I got some on my shoe.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

You have a misperception on how American fans feel about teams moving.  The vast majority have a strong feeling of abhorrence to the practice.

I think what UKJag means, is it's further from the norm over here than it is over there, not that it's necessarily well received..

Exactly, nobody can doubt the anger of the Browns fans when the team moved to Baltimore or more recently the St Louis fans when the Rams upped sticks to LA.

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The Rams are playing in the LA Coliseum until their Stadium gets built.  The Jags could play in Tottenham's news stadium until Wembley is renovated to accommodate Fulham FC and the Jags.  I think people make the logistics a lot more difficult than they really are --- and Shad knows that he may be the most powerful owner in the World if he were to have a Premier League Team and a NFL Team based in London.  A transition year may not be ideal but it's more than doable.

Fulham isn't moving into Wembley. They don't have the fanbase to sell 90k seats every game.

I'm simply stating Shad could utilize Wembley for designated select matches like Man City, ManU, Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham, and nearby Crystal Palace (who all have very strong fanbases that support away matches).

Craven Cottage holds 25,700 which is a decent size for a team that just got promoted up so you're probably right for this season BUT the Wembley idea could gain momentum for the reasons noted above

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I think you just have to look at Tottenham’s Wembley experience, to realise this isn’t gong to happen.

They’re an established top-of-the-table team (and much bigger than Fulham) with league title ambitions and regular Champions League football, playing a lot closer to their support-base. They averaged 67,000 last season.

Fulham would come nowhere near that, even on big match days (and don’t forget they wouldn’t want to invite huge numbers of away fans, so you’re talking about probably 8,000-10,000 Man Utd or Chelsea fans at the very most).

And yes, maybe in the distant future Fulham could be a Champions League side too. But they would have to be on a par with Man Utd to fill Wembley every week. They could be waiting 30 or 40 years to reach that level of support.

One more thought, what happens if they move to Wembley and then get relegated back to the Championship? (It’s happened before under Khan) Can the club survive playing in front of crowds of less than 25,000 at Wembley, against teams like Rotherham and Wigan?

Sorry to shoot the idea down (and maybe Khan will prove us all wrong!), but I think it would be crazy for Fulham to consider a move to Wembley.

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Fulham isn't moving into Wembley. They don't have the fanbase to sell 90k seats every game.

I'm simply stating Shad could utilize Wembley for designated select matches like Man City, ManU, Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham, and nearby Crystal Palace (who all have very strong fanbases that support away matches).

Craven Cottage holds 25,700 which is a decent size for a team that just got promoted up so you're probably right for this season BUT the Wembley idea could gain momentum for the reasons noted above

That's not allowed, teams have to have 1 stadium. 

Tottenham have recently had permission refused to start the season at Wembley if WHL is not ready and then move there once it is. They'll have to play away games until it's finished if work overruns.

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