I absolutely hate speculation like this.

We need to start thinking about our stadium here. 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20.../#comments

Check out the video at the bottom.

Oh yeah...Allen is still trash.

A little less trashy because he beat us?  Perhaps.  But still trash at the moment.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

St. Louis Bills? Sounds awful when you say it out loud.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

What do you think Khan and the city need to do stadium wise? I honestly think they just need to win out more consistently. Jacksonville is growing exponentially. Almost too much. It's crowded no matter where I go now in this city. Nearly 9 years ago when I bought my home on the older side of Kernan. It was pretty barren. Now the roads are being extended. The Kernan Square area that only had The Academy to claim now has an entire apartment complex not too far from it along with a 711, Earth Fare, Bell's, L.A Fitness, etc.

They're now adding another apartment complex on the other end towards my neighborhood where it ties into Ft. Caroline. And it doesn't look like they're slowing down. The Tamaya Community is supposed to be a huge, new neighborhood and there's also a big clearing of woods they're knocking down where Kernan and Beach Boulevard meet where the overpass is.

I think our city will be fine population wise. Just need a WINNER in that stadium on gamedays to get the city pumped up again.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

What do you think Khan and the city need to do stadium wise? I honestly think they just need to win out more consistently. Jacksonville is growing exponentially. Almost too much. It's crowded no matter where I go now in this city. Nearly 9 years ago when I bought my home on the older side of Kernan. It was pretty barren. Now the roads are being extended. The Kernan Square area that only had The Academy to claim now has an entire apartment complex not too far from it along with a 711, Earth Fare, Bell's, L.A Fitness, etc.

They're now adding another apartment complex on the other end towards my neighborhood where it ties into Ft. Caroline. And it doesn't look like they're slowing down. The Tamaya Community is supposed to be a huge, new neighborhood and there's also a big clearing of woods they're knocking down where Kernan and Beach Boulevard meet where the overpass is.

I think our city will be fine population wise. Just need a WINNER in that stadium on gamedays to get the city pumped up again.

It's growing like crazy on the Westside/Clay county area, as well. There's new neighborhoods popping up all the time. 

Unfortunately, there's still a large contingent of short-sighted voters in Duval who want a new stadium paid for in entirety by Shad Khan. They see a stadium as the exclusive domain of the Jaguars, without giving one iota of consideration of its other uses throughout the year. Perhaps incoming populations, and winning more, can sway the rubes. Some of them absolutely loath Khan and the Jags. I just don't get it. 

Personally, I would loooove to see something like the new Atlanta stadium here. A retractable roof would be ideal for hot Sept/Oct days, and cooler Nov/Dec days. But that's an impossible dream. Raising that kind of fundage, with an internationally recognizable sponsor is way beyond Jacksonville for the next couple of decades.

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What do you think Khan and the city need to do stadium wise? I honestly think they just need to win out more consistently. Jacksonville is growing exponentially. Almost too much. It's crowded no matter where I go now in this city. Nearly 9 years ago when I bought my home on the older side of Kernan. It was pretty barren. Now the roads are being extended. The Kernan Square area that only had The Academy to claim now has an entire apartment complex not too far from it along with a 711, Earth Fare, Bell's, L.A Fitness, etc.

They're now adding another apartment complex on the other end towards my neighborhood where it ties into Ft. Caroline. And it doesn't look like they're slowing down. The Tamaya Community is supposed to be a huge, new neighborhood and there's also a big clearing of woods they're knocking down where Kernan and Beach Boulevard meet where the overpass is.

I think our city will be fine population wise. Just need a WINNER in that stadium on gamedays to get the city pumped up again.

It's growing like crazy on the Westside/Clay county area, as well. There's new neighborhoods popping up all the time. 

Unfortunately, there's still a large contingent of short-sighted voters in Duval who want a new stadium paid for in entirety by Shad Khan. They see a stadium as the exclusive domain of the Jaguars, without giving one iota of consideration of its other uses throughout the year. Perhaps incoming populations, and winning more, can sway the rubes. Some of them absolutely loath Khan and the Jags. I just don't get it. 

Personally, I would loooove to see something like the new Atlanta stadium here. A retractable roof would be ideal for hot Sept/Oct days, and cooler Nov/Dec days. But that's an impossible dream. Raising that kind of fundage, with an internationally recognizable sponsor is way beyond Jacksonville for the next couple of decades.

I’m not completely opposed to a little bit of taxpayer money helping the stadium but in the end I think it’s wrong for owners to expect the public to fit the bill, so no, its not shortsighted imo. The economic effects are negligible to be honest. 

Now the emotional, the non tangible effects? Those are true. Jacksonville needs the Jaguars. I don’t even live there and I would be devastated if they left, I couldn’t imagine what it’s like for those who live there, invest their 7 sundays a year with season tickets etc

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It's growing like crazy on the Westside/Clay county area, as well. There's new neighborhoods popping up all the time. 

Unfortunately, there's still a large contingent of short-sighted voters in Duval who want a new stadium paid for in entirety by Shad Khan. They see a stadium as the exclusive domain of the Jaguars, without giving one iota of consideration of its other uses throughout the year. Perhaps incoming populations, and winning more, can sway the rubes. Some of them absolutely loath Khan and the Jags. I just don't get it. 

Personally, I would loooove to see something like the new Atlanta stadium here. A retractable roof would be ideal for hot Sept/Oct days, and cooler Nov/Dec days. But that's an impossible dream. Raising that kind of fundage, with an internationally recognizable sponsor is way beyond Jacksonville for the next couple of decades.

I’m not completely opposed to a little bit of taxpayer money helping the stadium but in the end I think it’s wrong for owners to expect the public to fit the bill, so no, its not shortsighted imo.  The economic effects are negligible to be honest. 

Now the emotional, the non tangible effects? Those are true. Jacksonville needs the Jaguars. I don’t even live there and I would be devastated if they left, I couldn’t imagine what it’s like for those who live there, invest their 7 sundays a year with season tickets etc

We're in agreement. While I don't expect the public to foot the entire bill, I don't see a problem with taxpayer money partially funding a multi-use stadium. What percentage that would be depends upon several factors. Extravagance being the primary determiner. I'm in the firm belief that if you build it, they will come. Other large events would book a nice stadium as a marquee statement, such as a Super Bowl. Unfortunately, this is a conversation that is still years down the road here in Jacksonville. The political and public will is simply not there, currently.

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Didn't they just get all the funding and final approval to take down the Hart Bridge Ramp south of the stadium that separates the Shipyards. If that goes well and the Bay Street "smart project", they will be well on their way to setting up downtown for a major rehaul of the stadium and the Shipyards that Kahn wants to do.

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Florio loves to stir crap like this up periodically, reading WAY more into a situation than is the reality.

Regarding our stadium situation, I think we're okay for the time being. The city and the team have done a good job of keeping the facility up to date with what will generate new revenue streams in a small market. They've kept up with technological advances in stadiums, The game day experience is one of the best in the league. Eventually there will be a need for either a major overhaul of the existing structure, or a rebuild. We're not there yet. With all of the investment happening in the area surrounding the stadium, it only makes sense to find a way to maintain the current footprint. I don't see them tearing down the stadium and building fresh, so it's possible they'll do something similar to what they did for past renovations, including the original renovations tearing down part of the old Gator Bowl. If they go that route, they'd most likely do it in stages so that they don't lose any home games.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Florio loves to stir crap like this up periodically, reading WAY more into a situation than is the reality.

Regarding our stadium situation, I think we're okay for the time being.  The city and the team have done a good job of keeping the facility up to date with what will generate new revenue streams in a small market.  They've kept up with technological advances in stadiums,  The game day experience is one of the best in the league.  Eventually there will be a need for either a major overhaul of the existing structure, or a rebuild.   We're not there yet.  With all of the investment happening in the area surrounding the stadium, it only makes sense to find a way to maintain the current footprint.  I don't see them tearing down the stadium and building fresh, so it's possible they'll do something similar to what they did for past renovations, including the original renovations tearing down part of the old Gator Bowl.  If they go that route, they'd most likely do it in stages so that they don't lose any home games.

Though I agree in principle with you overall in your post, I disagree with the idea we're "not there yet."

IIRC, there are five years left on the lease between the city and the Jaguars.

I agree that a more extensive refurbishing of the stadium is the way to go, considering the plans for the Shipyards and the Hart Bridge/Bey St exit ramp.  Extensive refurbishing of existing stadiums were done in Chicago and Green Bay, and, IIRC, Kansas City to keep those stadiums up to contemporary standards.  Khan has helped a great deal on contributing to the stadium upgrades.  I think the state has a fund (funded in part by the sale of sports teams related license plate) for cities to upgrade their local stadiums.  It's certainly doable here and I think it will get done.

I just don't want the city to drag its feet on it and end up like St. Louis (x2), or San Diego, Cleveland, Baltimore or Oakland (x2).  Cities that drag their feet on upgrading stadiums end up losing their NFL teams.  I want to be proactive.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Our stadium has stood the test of time better than most, but it will be on the chopping block sooner or later. Think about this - the stadium in St. Louis was built After ours and has already been used as an excuse to relocate a team. Khan will likely be much more willing to work with the city than Kroenke was though.

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In the next half decade or so I bet Khan starts asking for a brand new stadium. The renovations that have been done are nice and all, but the bones look pretty old...much like an aging celebrity who's had a lot of plastic surgery.

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Personally, I foresee NFL teams going to much smaller stadiums in ~ 30 years. I really don't think the millennials are going to support teams in numbers the was baby boomers and x generation do. Thus, I think a 30,000 seat stadium with a huge emphasis on boxes and club seats catering to Corp America clientele will be the wave of the future in ~ the year 2050.

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Florio loves to stir crap like this up periodically, reading WAY more into a situation than is the reality.

Regarding our stadium situation, I think we're okay for the time being.  The city and the team have done a good job of keeping the facility up to date with what will generate new revenue streams in a small market.  They've kept up with technological advances in stadiums,  The game day experience is one of the best in the league.  Eventually there will be a need for either a major overhaul of the existing structure, or a rebuild.   We're not there yet.  With all of the investment happening in the area surrounding the stadium, it only makes sense to find a way to maintain the current footprint.  I don't see them tearing down the stadium and building fresh, so it's possible they'll do something similar to what they did for past renovations, including the original renovations tearing down part of the old Gator Bowl.  If they go that route, they'd most likely do it in stages so that they don't lose any home games.

Though I agree in principle with you overall in your post, I disagree with the idea we're "not there yet."

IIRC, there are five years left on the lease between the city and the Jaguars.

I agree that a more extensive refurbishing of the stadium is the way to go, considering the plans for the Shipyards and the Hart Bridge/Bey St exit ramp.  Extensive refurbishing of existing stadiums were done in Chicago and Green Bay, and, IIRC, Kansas City to keep those stadiums up to contemporary standards.  Khan has helped a great deal on contributing to the stadium upgrades.  I think the state has a fund (funded in part by the sale of sports teams related license plate) for cities to upgrade their local stadiums.  It's certainly doable here and I think it will get done.

I just don't want the city to drag its feet on it and end up like St. Louis (x2), or San Diego, Cleveland, Baltimore or Oakland (x2).  Cities that drag their feet on upgrading stadiums end up losing their NFL teams.  I want to be proactive.

One thing I'm fairly confident of is that the city will do its part to make sure the franchise can't use the stadium as leverage to relocate.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

The name St. Louis Bills just gives me a headache.. I do think STL deserves a team, but they should rename the Bills if they get it. Also, This is why I always never count out the typical BS speculation that our team could move. Most times it's a stadium issue, not even attendance. Yeah our stadium is only like 24 or something years old, but we need to make sure that it's well renovated so something lile this doesn't become an issue for us.

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We start winning consistently, the new stadium will come.

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Let's Get Em!!!! Go Jags!

Though I agree in principle with you overall in your post, I disagree with the idea we're "not there yet."

IIRC, there are five years left on the lease between the city and the Jaguars.

I agree that a more extensive refurbishing of the stadium is the way to go, considering the plans for the Shipyards and the Hart Bridge/Bey St exit ramp.  Extensive refurbishing of existing stadiums were done in Chicago and Green Bay, and, IIRC, Kansas City to keep those stadiums up to contemporary standards.  Khan has helped a great deal on contributing to the stadium upgrades.  I think the state has a fund (funded in part by the sale of sports teams related license plate) for cities to upgrade their local stadiums.  It's certainly doable here and I think it will get done.

I just don't want the city to drag its feet on it and end up like St. Louis (x2), or San Diego, Cleveland, Baltimore or Oakland (x2).  Cities that drag their feet on upgrading stadiums end up losing their NFL teams.  I want to be proactive.

One thing I'm fairly confident of is that the city will do its part to make sure the franchise can't use the stadium as leverage to relocate.

Do you remember the fight to approve the stadium in the first place?

I wash I had your confidence  the city will do the right thing.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Florio loves to stir crap like this up periodically, reading WAY more into a situation than is the reality.

Regarding our stadium situation, I think we're okay for the time being.  The city and the team have done a good job of keeping the facility up to date with what will generate new revenue streams in a small market.  They've kept up with technological advances in stadiums,  The game day experience is one of the best in the league.  Eventually there will be a need for either a major overhaul of the existing structure, or a rebuild.   We're not there yet.  With all of the investment happening in the area surrounding the stadium, it only makes sense to find a way to maintain the current footprint.  I don't see them tearing down the stadium and building fresh, so it's possible they'll do something similar to what they did for past renovations, including the original renovations tearing down part of the old Gator Bowl.  If they go that route, they'd most likely do it in stages so that they don't lose any home games.

Though I agree in principle with you overall in your post, I disagree with the idea we're "not there yet."

IIRC, there are five years left on the lease between the city and the Jaguars.

I agree that a more extensive refurbishing of the stadium is the way to go, considering the plans for the Shipyards and the Hart Bridge/Bey St exit ramp.  Extensive refurbishing of existing stadiums were done in Chicago and Green Bay, and, IIRC, Kansas City to keep those stadiums up to contemporary standards.  Khan has helped a great deal on contributing to the stadium upgrades.  I think the state has a fund (funded in part by the sale of sports teams related license plate) for cities to upgrade their local stadiums.  It's certainly doable here and I think it will get done.

I just don't want the city to drag its feet on it and end up like St. Louis (x2), or San Diego, Cleveland, Baltimore or Oakland (x2).  Cities that drag their feet on upgrading stadiums end up losing their NFL teams.  I want to be proactive.

I think most funds come from Tourist development tax which is mostly a bed tax for hotels, motels, resorts and short term rentals.
I dont know if this has changed but most sports, entertainment, etc related facilities get tax money from those taxes.

If those businesses are OK with the tax going there, I dont understand why normal tax paying local residents would be apposed to helping subsidize facilities that help with tourism and those businesses that are paying the tax.

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Toronto seems like a much more likely possibility than St. Louis if the Bills leave the Buffalo area.

Market size, sizable existing fan base in Ontario, and the NFL would have an actual presence in Canada, all work in Toronto's favor.

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Toronto seems like a much more likely possibility than St. Louis if the Bills leave the Buffalo area.  

Market size,  sizable existing fan base in Ontario, and the NFL would have an actual presence in Canada, all work in Toronto's favor.

I dunno.

I know Ralph Wilson thought so, when he arranged to play one game a season in Toronto.

However, the games were sparsely attended for various reasons and the series stopped.

https://torontosun.com/2014/12/03/buffal...74e4882904

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I dunno.

I know Ralph Wilson thought so, when he arranged to play one game a season in Toronto.

However, the games were sparsely attended for various reasons and the series stopped.

https://torontosun.com/2014/12/03/buffal...74e4882904

The primary reason why I think the Bills games in Toronto got less and less support is the team is the BUFFALO Bills.  Most NFL fans in the GTA ( Greater Toronto Area ) aren't Bills fans.  The novelty of going to an NFL game with teams they don't root for wore off.   Other than the Bills fans in Ontario, some from the Buffalo area,  and fans of the opposing team,  there was little interest in people going to a Bills game in Toronto year after year.  

If the Bills move to Toronto,  people in the GTA will have a local team to support that identifies as Toronto.  It's not close to a guarantee for success.  But this is a large market that has much more familiarity with the NFL than London last decade.

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