As a %, how many scholarship football players in the NCAA do you think use their scholarship for legitimate educational purposes? If its even 50% I'll eat my hat.

 

Out of potentially 23,691 football players on scholarship, I would say more than 50% use their scholarship for "legitimate education purposes" is an extremely low-ball %.

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That is completely the fault of the athletes themselves.  They have EVERY opportunity in front of them to learn whatever they want and as much as they want.  Many choose the easiest path possible.  Thats their fault.  They have every single right in the world to go to the dean of engineering and work out a schedule where they can graduate in 5 years with an engineering degree.  Or do pre-med.  Or prepare themselves for law school.  Whatever they want to do. 

 

Why do we feel the need to cling to this victim mentality?  You know how many people in this country would KILL for the opportunity these athletes have?  But many of them waste it on joke basket weaving majors because they dont want to put in the time and energy.  They'd rather cruise through school and study as little as possible.  And then when they realize they wont make it to the NFL and theyve spent the last 4-5 years screwing around and have zero job prospects, then all of a sudden "Im a victim, Im a victim, you made all this money, and I got nothing, Oh woe as me!!!"  What a bunch of crap.  They are given everythign and most of them waste it.  You can use that free educationt to learn a real skill, use alumni and career center to get you a real job, and then you are set for life.  But oh no, they're victims. 

 

 

I hate this 'people would kill for this opportunity' crap. If you have a talent with the potential to make money, its not luck when people will help you maximize that in exchange for a chunk of the spoils. This free education isn't a gift from a benevolent college, its the cheapest thing they can offer for the services of a football player.

 

College ball is a full time job. Although a tiny, tiny % of football players manage to do real degrees (and I admire the heck out of them) one of the reasons many others don't is because its not reasonable to expect any person, especially one who has nowhere near the academic ability to do any sort of degree, to work that many hours in a physically demanding job and then do a college work.

 

Pay the men what the deserve and then its up to them what they do with the money. As a professional, I work for money, if someone offered me a job where the remuneration was 'an opportunity', I'd tell them where to stick it.

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Just to be different, Bortles.

Do you work?

If your job said we aren't going to pay you any more, just give you free room and board, would you take that? I'm guessing not.


What if they then said by you refusing to take this deal they had to let a bunch of non-productive employees go? I'm guessing that wouldn't change your mind.


As a %, how many scholarship football players in the NCAA do you think use their scholarship for legitimate educational purposes? If its even 50% I'll eat my hat. The whole system is a sham, these kids are basically full time football players. At major colleges they make a lot of money for their organization and all the get in return is an education most of them haven't the brains or inclination to use, an education that could go to a kid with brains rather than the ability to run a 4.4. The joke of it is, that they are already getting paid under the table, but people balk at the idea of a man getting paid honestly for his worth in actual cash. I just can't wrap my head around it.

This is exactly what I am saying. The current system is a sham.

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Out of potentially 23,691 football players on scholarship, I would say more than 50% use their scholarship for "legitimate education purposes" is an extremely low-ball %.

 

Given that we both pulled figures from our butts. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

If you're including every football player that graduates, yeah, you're right its way more than 50%. However if we are talking about men who have actually earned a degree through hard work rather than being gifted passing grades for turning up to 30% of classes, then I refuse to believe we hit 50%.

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Just to be different, Bortles.

I hate this 'people would kill for this opportunity' crap. If you have a talent with the potential to make money, its not luck when people will help you maximize that in exchange for a chunk of the spoils. This free education isn't a gift from a benevolent college, its the cheapest thing they can offer for the services of a football player.

 

College ball is a full time job. Although a tiny, tiny % of football players manage to do real degrees (and I admire the heck out of them) one of the reasons many others don't is because its not reasonable to expect any person, especially one who has nowhere near the academic ability to do any sort of degree, to work that many hours in a physically demanding job and then do a college work.

 

Pay the men what the deserve and then its up to them what they do with the money. As a professional, I work for money, if someone offered me a job where the remuneration was 'an opportunity', I'd tell them where to stick it.

 

What?  There are plenty of people with physically demanding jobs who take on a full college workload, some of them MORESO than ball players.  There are people all over the world who would kill for the opportunity to have a college education paid for, and it's ridiculous that athletes waste it.  It's their fault they have eighth grade reading levels--how dare people blame the school for the kid placing a higher value on athletics.

 

It's a ridiculous system.  What needs to happen is a D-league for the NFL where these people can go try their luck making it on their athletic merits alone, since they're squandering the oportunity to get a high quality education that could open doors for them when they blow out their knees or don't last on an NFL roster.  Give it to people who will appreciate it.

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What?  There are plenty of people with physically demanding jobs who take on a full college workload, some of them MORESO than ball players.  There are people all over the world who would kill for the opportunity to have a college education paid for, and it's ridiculous that athletes waste it.  It's their fault they have eighth grade reading levels--how dare people blame the school for the kid placing a higher value on athletics.

 

It's a ridiculous system.  What needs to happen is a D-league for the NFL where these people can go try their luck making it on their athletic merits alone, since they're squandering the oportunity to get a high quality education that could open doors for them when they blow out their knees or don't last on an NFL roster.  Give it to people who will appreciate it.

 

The kid placing a higher value on athletics?!?! Nobody in the whole system cares a damn about academics! Who offers him a scholarship? That's right, the college who doesn't give a crap about the fact this person has nowhere near the academic ability to do a degree and only wants this kid for his ability to play football and make them money. Educational establishments are offering places to kids who cant read or write ahead of clever hard working kids because they can play football. So who is valuing academics above athletics?

 

What people mean when they say 'they would kill for the opportunity' is 'I wish I had the talent they have'. Would I do Robert Downy Jr's job for 1/500th of the money? You're damn right I would, but I don't have what he has. If I did, I'd demand the same money he gets. Would I have played college football for a free degree and been happy about it? You're damn right I would, but I'm a short, out of shape, terminally average football player. If I'm Jonny Manziel and making bank for TA&M maybe I'm not so happy about getting paid in the form of a scholarship I don't want/need/have the academic ability for.

 

When you say plenty, its still a very small % of people who get degrees while working because (especially if you are doing both full time work and full time college) its extremely demanding. Its like brain surgery, just because some people can do its not a reasonable expectation of everyone.

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Just to be different, Bortles.

Good points. Never will settle the issue.

 

The NFL or anybody needs to make the development league happen.

 

Once college football is depleted of talent, it will fail/shrink back to where it belongs as a secondary sideshow on campus.

 

Time was colleges played football. Now football plays colleges.

 

There's "the other man" in every set of negotiations. He's usually the guy being exploited by both "victims".

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First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. - Mahatma Gandhi

 

http://s6.postimg.org/vyr2ycdfz/Teddy_Br...cked_4.gif

Given that we both pulled figures from our butts. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

If you're including every football player that graduates, yeah, you're right its way more than 50%. However if we are talking about men who have actually earned a degree through hard work rather than being gifted passing grades for turning up to 30% of classes, then I refuse to believe we hit 50%.

 

Uh, no. That is an actual number.

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Uh, no. That is an actual number.

 

The number of people on football scholarships I trust is legit, your estimate of how many of those people legitimately take full advantage of the opportunity of a college education is a guess.

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Just to be different, Bortles.

It really is amazing that some of these college athletes think they should be payed.

 

By participating in major college athletics, they receive:

 

-a free ride (a scholarship that is worth ~$120,000)

-free room and board

-meal plans

-free clothing, shoes, etc. provided by the team

-travel all over the country

 

They pretty much have it made already.

I agree with your thought process. But look at it this way. They play a game where they can be seriously injured (possibly preventing any possible NFL career and hindering life beyond). The colleges make millions upon millions of dollars from ticket sales, television deals, bowl games, clothing sales, video game sales, etc. Let's say this was you, and yes, you're getting all of that free stuff. But the school has made 10 million dollars on you alone in the four years you were at the school. Yes, you received a free education, food, housing, and expenses. But they made more money in those four years than you will make your entire life (from the education received). Wouldn't you like a piece of the pie that you helped provide? I agree, that if they are paid, some of the free things should be paid. But I think they should be paid something. At least from the perspective of sales made by them being there; especially a big name player. TV ratings/viewings and item sales could significantly increase by this. And who benefits, the schools. I wouldn't want anyone making money off me (that much money) and I don't see any of it? Come on now.......

 

GO JAGS!

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Let's Get Em!!!! Go Jags!

"Their fair share?"  Come on, man, it's already a travesty that some of these athletes even get to attend the university and get an education in the first place.  With no athletic ability, they'd be on the nearest McDonald's schedule for the rest of their live because they, in most cases, have coasted off of their abilities rather than work hard like, say, the refugees from other countries I see every day who barely speak English yet work their tails off for scholarships despite their poverty and the language barrier.

 

The free college education is MORE than payment enough, and it is MORE than what more deserving people who take out loans that they pay for for the rest of their lives get (if they manage to attend college at all).  The university should have the right to make money off of them.  If they were smart, they'd get a useful degree instead of an easy one so they could have life after the average 5 year career of an NFL player.

 

"Refugees" are not the only people who work hard for scholarships despite the poverty they come from.

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

What?  There are plenty of people with physically demanding jobs who take on a full college workload, some of them MORESO than ball players.  There are people all over the world who would kill for the opportunity to have a college education paid for, and it's ridiculous that athletes waste it.  It's their fault they have eighth grade reading levels--how dare people blame the school for the kid placing a higher value on athletics.

 

It's a ridiculous system.  What needs to happen is a D-league for the NFL where these people can go try their luck making it on their athletic merits alone, since they're squandering the oportunity to get a high quality education that could open doors for them when they blow out their knees or don't last on an NFL roster.  Give it to people who will appreciate it.

I disagree, its the public school system's fault for pimping these kids to where the succeed in the athletic portion while neglecting their academic needs by coasting them along.

 

The Universities get to make money off of these ripe, athletically gifted, academically inept students.

 

I bet some people wont hold fire to the Universities  who create the Basket-weaving courses intended to keep these low performing SA enrolled so they can keep raking in millions off these same SA though.

---

Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

Do you work?

If your job said we aren't going to pay you any more, just give you free room and board, would you take that? I'm guessing not.

 

What if they then said by you refusing to take this deal they had to let a bunch of non-productive employees go? I'm guessing that wouldn't change your mind.

 

As a %, how many scholarship football players in the NCAA do you think use their scholarship for legitimate educational purposes? If its even 50% I'll eat my hat. The whole system is a sham, these kids are basically full time football players. At major colleges they make a lot of money for their organization and all the get in return is an education most of them haven't the brains or inclination to use, an education that could go to a kid with brains rather than the ability to run a 4.4. The joke of it is, that they are already getting paid under the table, but people balk at the idea of a man getting paid honestly for his worth in actual cash. I just can't wrap my head around it.

 

Many people in college do exactly that. Unpaid or minimalistic internships are required for many degrees. For the players whom college is essential then they are getting a great return. For the players who move on to the pros college is simply a lengthy internship.

 

What we have here isn't a problem with the collegiate system, it's a problem with the concept of "amateur athletics" and eligibility.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

College isn't an internship. True internships are sponsored by the prospective employer. College is just a vehicle to get cheap labor for propping up the school's athletic program, and providing free education is about the cheapest way of providing compensation. Many of the players would be ineligible to gain entrance to the college outside of an athletic scholarship. Either they've been coasted through school while their athletic skills have been overemphasized, or they simply lacked access to a quality school prior to being recruited. It's very telling that many of the best athletes are African Americans from low income communities. College football was once a predominantly white sport and now it is the complete opposite. It is not because one race is better at the sport versus the other but it could be that athletic skills are simply overvalued in certain communities, and perhaps seen a way out of the 'hood'. I read in a study somewhere that in a survey of both blacks and whites over 50% of blacks thought they could make it to the NFL, while only 12% of whites thought they could. Socioeconomic status probably has a major role in this thought process as well as prevading stereotypes regarding athletic and academic prowess. Here is an excerpt from an article I read:

 

There's no question that athletics can be a pathway to education that transforms lives. But all too often, black male student-athletes leave college without degrees, and with little in the way of the training they need to succeed in life beyond sports. Recently I heard from a senior athletics administrator who was startled when one of his black former football players served him lunch at a fast-food restaurant. Why should that have surprised him? For what else was the young man prepared once his college sports career ended?


Only 50 percent of black male athletes graduate within six years from colleges in the seven major NCAA Division I sports conferences, compared with 67 percent of athletes over all, 73 percent of undergraduates, and 56 percent of black undergraduate men. And while black men are underrepresented in the undergraduate population at predominantly white colleges and universities, there is an enormous overrepresentation of them on those revenue-generating Division I sports teams. Their comparatively lower six-year graduation rates warrant a resounding response from college presidents, trustees, and athletics administrators.
 

This reeks of exploitation at the highest level. At the major universities football is king, not academics. The argument free tuition is enough compensation would be valid if the schools actually valued education but they simply do not. The current system is designed to keep the money flowing. It is not designed to provide adequate compensation either in the form of a high quality education that students can use after their careers or in the form of money for the job of being a full time athlete.

---

College isn't an internship. True internships are sponsored by the prospective employer. College is just a vehicle to get cheap labor for propping up the school's athletic program, and providing free education is about the cheapest way of providing compensation. Many of the players would be ineligible to gain entrance to the college outside of an athletic scholarship. Either they've been coasted through school while their athletic skills have been overemphasized, or they simply lacked access to a quality school prior to being recruited. It's very telling that many of the best athletes are African Americans from low income communities. College football was once a predominantly white sport and now it is the complete opposite. It is not because one race is better at the sport versus the other but it could be that athletic skills are simply overvalued in certain communities, and perhaps seen a way out of the 'hood'. I read in a study somewhere that in a survey of both blacks and whites over 50% of blacks thought they could make it to the NFL, while only 12% of whites thought they could. Socioeconomic status probably has a major role in this thought process as well as prevading stereotypes regarding athletic and academic prowess. Here is an excerpt from an article I read:


There's no question that athletics can be a pathway to education that transforms lives. But all too often, black male student-athletes leave college without degrees, and with little in the way of the training they need to succeed in life beyond sports. Recently I heard from a senior athletics administrator who was startled when one of his black former football players served him lunch at a fast-food restaurant. Why should that have surprised him? For what else was the young man prepared once his college sports career ended?


Only 50 percent of black male athletes graduate within six years from colleges in the seven major NCAA Division I sports conferences, compared with 67 percent of athletes over all, 73 percent of undergraduates, and 56 percent of black undergraduate men. And while black men are underrepresented in the undergraduate population at predominantly white colleges and universities, there is an enormous overrepresentation of them on those revenue-generating Division I sports teams. Their comparatively lower six-year graduation rates warrant a resounding response from college presidents, trustees, and athletics administrators.


This reeks of exploitation at the highest level. At the major universities football is king, not academics. The argument free tuition is enough compensation would be valid if the schools actually valued education but they simply do not. The current system is designed to keep the money flowing. It is not designed to provide adequate compensation either in the form of a high quality education that students can use after their careers or in the form of money for the job of being a full time athlete.

 

This is the truth plus 1000!

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.