Wait, someone is really arguing that it is easier to find a quality QB late than it is to find a DE late? Wowowowowow.

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Wait, someone is really arguing that it is easier to find a quality QB late than it is to find a DE late? Wowowowowow.

Yikes.... People are reeeeeeeally reaching now.

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Wait, someone is really arguing that it is easier to find a quality QB late than it is to find a DE late? Wowowowowow.

Hey, we just have different opinions. No where did I say your beloved Bridgeawater is bad, just trying to show it's not all about QBs.


Didn't Geno Smith go 8-8 his rookie season ? Didn't he beat Brees, Brady, Ryan and a bunch of first round QBs not wirth naming ? How the hell did Geno Smith and Bilal Powell do that ? why didn't we draft Geno Smith ? We could have gone 8-8 bc qbs are the end all be all.

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Hey, we just have different opinions. No where did I say your beloved Bridgeawater is bad, just trying to show it's not all about QBs.


Didn't Geno Smith go 8-8 his rookie season ? Didn't he beat Brees, Brady, Ryan and a bunch of first round QBs not wirth naming ? How the hell did Geno Smith and Bilal Powell do that ? why didn't we draft Geno Smith ? We could have gone 8-8 bc qbs are the end all be all.

Close minded has nothing to do with it. The statistics are overwhelming, finding a good QB after the first round has less than a 20% chance of working out (and that's including very mediocre guys like Dalton, Garrard, and Schaub as good, which they aren't). Finding a good QB after the third round is less than 5%, basically Brady, Romo, and Warner out of the hundreds of QBs picked day 3 or undrafted.

 

If your plan is wait and find one of the outlier good QBs late in the draft you are more than likely going to lose your job, it's just a fact. 

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Peyton's lack of arm strength and mobility hurts him against a team like this

 

Its obvious to anybody with a football brain

 

Teddy would have been eaten alive last night. Good God you are a moron.

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Close minded has nothing to do with it. The statistics are overwhelming, finding a good QB after the first round has less than a 20% chance of working out (and that's including very mediocre guys like Dalton, Garrard, and Schaub as good, which they aren't). Finding a good QB after the third round is less than 5%, basically Brady, Romo, and Warner out of the hundreds of QBs picked day 3 or undrafted.


If your plan is wait and find one of the outlier good QBs late in the draft you are more than likely going to lose your job, it's just a fact.

So how did Leftwich and Gabbert turn out ? How many failed first round qbs are there ? Why do they fail ? They're over drafted , rushed , and the team overall just wasn't ready for one.


I showed you already from the past 5 years , how many failed 1st round picks there are. Heck in the past 5 years , there's probably more successful 2nd round and beyond than first round picks


Dalton is considered a success because instead of spending a first round pick on him , they built an unbelievable roster. They could have Gabbert instead and lose AJ Green.... They are probably happy you weren't their GM. I'm sure if you were the GM of Houston, Vince Young over Mario Williams... There goes the success they had.

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Does last nights game make everybody see the light how Clowney is the best player in this draft by a mile?

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[quote name="StroudCrowd1" post="125592" timestamp="1391437381"]


Does last nights game make everybody see the light how Clowney is the best player in this draft by a mile?[/quote


You would think, but it's not that simple . You would think Manning , Bradford, Stafford, or Newton would win every year , the way they talk.

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So how did Leftwich and Gabbert turn out ? How many failed first round qbs are there ? Why do they fail ? They're over drafted , rushed , and the team overall just wasn't ready for one.


I showed you already from the past 5 years , how many failed 1st round picks there are. Heck in the past 5 years , there's probably more successful 2nd round and beyond than first round picks


Dalton is considered a success because instead of spending a first round pick on him , they built an unbelievable roster. They could have Gabbert instead and lose AJ Green.... They are probably happy you weren't their GM. I'm sure if you were the GM of Houston, Vince Young over Mario Williams... There goes the success they had.

Your odds are only 50/50 that a first round pick will hit even, ~20% a day 2 QB will hit, and less than 5% that a day 3 QB will hit. It's not easy to find good QBs, but if you don't have one you don't win titles without extreme circumstances. 

 

Also, who is considering Dalton a success? He is the exact definition of QB purgatory. The Bengals are in a terrible situation because they have a SB caliber team being held back by an average QB...and it's going to be even worse because they're probably going to be forced to give him a 100 million dollar 2nd contract after he 'leads' them to another playoff appearance next year. That's what makes QB purgatory so dangerous. While they're on their cheap rookie deals is not that bad, but then the teams relative success forces teams to give them the big 2nd deal and then that team is in cap hell with a very expensive average QB.

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Does last nights game make everybody see the light how Clowney is the best player in this draft by a mile?

 

You're kidding, right? According to this board, if we don't draft Teddy, we are DOOMED.

 

You're wasting your time trying to convince them otherwise.

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Does last nights game make everybody see the light how Clowney is the best player in this draft by a mile?

 

I definitely think Seattle has proven that even in a QB dominate league, you can still win with defense.  I'll admit, I was aboard the having an elite QB is a must train, but that game proved otherwise and Seattle has done things against the grain.  And I do think they are and proved they are the best team in the NFL right now.  Just imagine if they had Percy Harvin all year.  Damn...

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You're kidding, right? According to this board, if we don't draft Teddy, we are DOOMED.

 

You're wasting your time trying to convince them otherwise.

Nice hyperbole sir. All we are saying (sans Wiseman) is if Dave deems any QB in this draft worthy of the franchise QB prospect label, then he should (and surely will) take him at 3...because a franchise QB is undeniably more important than any one player at any other position no matter how good they are. 

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I definitely think Seattle has proven that even in a QB dominate league, you can still win with defense.  I'll admit, I was aboard the having an elite QB is a must train, but that game proved otherwise and Seattle has done things against the grain.  And I do think they are and proved they are the best team in the NFL right now.  Just imagine if they had Percy Harvin all year.  Damn...

Yes, you can win with an all time great defense. But the Seahawks did not win because of any one player on that defense, especially not any one pass rusher. You could take any one or probably even two of Bennett, Irvin, Avril, or Clemons off that team and they would still have dominated that game. 

 

To put it more simply, a team can win a SB with a great QB and average surrounding talent. A team cannot even make the playoffs with a great any other one position player and average surrounding talent otherwise. 

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Not when the offense is not scoring point (see Houston Texans)


They have an all pro in Watt, it didn't make difference that they went 2-14

Uh, Houston's running game seriously declined this season, which was a major reason they were so good the previous two years.

Their defense also slid back considerably (losing Cushing, and their secondary was not very good this year. J Joseph played well below his normal level).


Houston had been very good when: their defense was really stout + their running game was maybe the best in the league.

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Yes, you can win with an all time great defense. But the Seahawks did not win because of any one player on that defense, especially not any one pass rusher. You could take any one or probably even two of Bennett, Irvin, Avril, or Clemons off that team and they would still have dominated that game. 

 

To put it more simply, a team can win a SB with a great QB and average surrounding talent. A team cannot even make the playoffs with a great any other one position player and average surrounding talent otherwise. 

 

I understand, but they built the team pretty fast in Seattle.  Once Carroll took over, he turned them into a playoff team immediately.  I think that to me is the biggest thing.  They built that "team" from the ground up and did so quickly without having an elite QB.

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Your odds are only 50/50 that a first round pick will hit even, ~20% a day 2 QB will hit, and less than 5% that a day 3 QB will hit. It's not easy to find good QBs, but if you don't have one you don't win titles without extreme circumstances.


Also, who is considering Dalton a success? He is the exact definition of QB purgatory. The Bengals are in a terrible situation because they have a SB caliber team being held back by an average QB...and it's going to be even worse because they're probably going to be forced to give him a 100 million dollar 2nd contract after he 'leads' them to another playoff appearance next year. That's what makes QB purgatory so dangerous. While they're on their cheap rookie deals is not that bad, but then the teams relative success forces teams to give them the big 2nd deal and then that team is in cap hell with a very expensive average QB.

I consider it a success. I'll take 9-7, 10-6, and 11-5 over our record any day... Who cares about the Super Bowl , they atleast made the playoffs. I guess you're ignoring the fact they have Super Bowl talent bc they waited on Dalton... All you focus on is oh he sucks. Well how is he winning if he sucks? Oh his teamis great ? Why are they great because they drafted the better talent earlier ? You're just making my point when you say they have super bowl talent, thanks


I guess Andy dalton is any worse than those contracts to your wonderful first round picks... Matt Ryan , Eli, Flacco...

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You know whats hard? Building a defense that is considered one of the greatest defenses of all time. I would say only4 teams won a Super Bowl without above average QB play (Balt 2000, TB, Seattle, Chicago). There are only 4 QB's who have played in the past 11 Superbowls from the AFC (Manning, Brady, Ben and Flacco).

 

The odds are not in your favor if you don't have a great QB. Do you sometimes see teams get to the SB and win without great QB play? Yea but it doesn't happen often.

 

I am saying QB (NOT NECESSARILY TEDDY) is way more important and way harder to find than good defensive players. STL has Quin and Long (never going to win with Bradford). Houston has studs all over the defense but will never win with Schaub.

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The real question is this: Is Khan smokescreening with his "we're drafting at least one QB" quote, or is he telling his general manager to go out and get a guy? (similar to Blackmon)

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"Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other." Galatians 5:26

2015 NFL Draft - Analyzing Targets www.jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/topic/7892-2015-nfl-draft-analyzing-targets/

I consider it a success. I'll take 9-7, 10-6, and 11-5 over our record any day... Who cares about the Super Bowl , they atleast made the playoffs. I guess you're ignoring the fact they have Super Bowl talent bc they waited on Dalton... All you focus on is oh he sucks. Well how is he winning if he sucks? Oh his teamis great ? Why are they great because they drafted the better talent earlier ?

They have exactly one more player because they waited on Dalton...AJ Green is great but they would still very much have a super bowl caliber team without him. 

 

And no, I won't be happy if the Gus/Dave regime peaks with one and done in the playoffs. What kind of loser is ok with that?

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You know whats hard? Building a defense that is considered one of the greatest defenses of all time. I would say only4 teams won a Super Bowl without above average QB play (Balt 2000, TB, Seattle, Chicago). There are only 4 QB's who have played in the past 11 Superbowls from the AFC (Manning, Brady, Ben and Flacco).


The odds are not in your favor if you don't have a great QB. Do you sometimes see teams get to the SB and win without great QB play? Yea but it doesn't happen often.


I am saying QB (NOT NECESSARILY TEDDY) is way more important and way harder to find than good defensive players. STL has Quin and Long (never going to win with Bradford). Houston has studs all over the defense but will never win with Schaub.

It's convenient you only list the AFC side and not the new QBs in the NFC. You also name Big Ben and Flacco who had great defenses.


Aren't you proving yourself wrong in a way? Only 4 qbs have made it? So basically all those teams picking first round qbs who will never be as good as Manning and Brady wasting their picks ? Why not stop Manning and Brady ? No no let's draft Blaine Gabbert and hope he's better than Manning.


I guess your logic makes sense, let's try to beat Manning by hoping the lesser QB is better. Why would we draft a DE who can force Brady and Manning out of the pocket.


You dint need a bunch of drafts if you have an all pro DE which will make all your current players better.

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