[quote name="KYjaggy" post="125623" timestamp="1391440225"]


They have exactly one more player because they waited on Dalton...AJ Green is great but they would still very much have a super bowl caliber team without him.


And no, I won't be happy if the Gus/Dave regime peaks with one and done in the playoffs. What kind of loser is ok with that?[/quote


So you're happy with Gabbert ? I guess you're happy with losing seasons. You think one team is gonna win every year ? I'm sorry but 31 teams have to lose. I'll take playoffs every year then 4-12 every year. I guess you consider Manning a failure because he doesn't win the Super Bowl every year ?


Why have the Bengals peaked? Dalton's record has improved every year .


Again if you were a GM, you'd take Vince young over Williams. I've already shown you how much your first round qbs fail but you keep at it. Dalton who you say sucks, has better records than all your first round qb except Luck...

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So you're happy with Gabbert ? I guess you're happy with losing seasons. You think one team is gonna win every year ? I'm sorry but 31 teams have to lose. I'll take playoffs every year then 4-12 every year. I guess you consider Manning a failure because he doesn't win the Super Bowl every year ?


Why have the Bengals peaked? Dalton's record has improved every year .

Nope I'm not happy with Gabbert, but I know the stats...and they say even top 10 QB picks fail 50% of the time. I'm not scared of drafting another QB simply because I missed on one early...especially when not one single person that was involved in drafting Gabbert is still in the front office. 

 

You man up and draft another franchise QB prospect. You don't wimp out and draft low upside/late QBs and pray that you find the 1/20 outlier franchise QB late. 

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Oh and just so you know, the bust % of top 10 DEs is higher than top 10 QBs. For every Gabbert and Russell there is a Jamaal Anderson and Courtney Brown. 

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I know every player can bust and I wouldn't be afraid to draft the highest rated player at a position of need either.


Were just not going to agree. I just don't have Teddy as rated high as you do. I see him more like Ryan than Rodgers ,who I would want at 3. And someone who would carry this team.


I just believe at 3 if he's there. Clowney will improve this team quicker (he was ready for the nfl last year) than Bridgewater. I belie we'd be 8-8 with Clowney and maybe 6-10 with Bridgewater . Yes the rest of the draft matters, but I think our defense improves that much with Clowney than our offense with Bridgewater

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I know every player can bust and I wouldn't be afraid to draft the highest rated player at a position of need either.


Were just not going to agree. I just don't have Teddy as rated high as you do. I see him more like Ryan than Rodgers ,who I would want at 3. And someone who would carry this team.


I just believe at 3 if he's there. Clowney will improve this team quicker (he was ready for the nfl last year) than Bridgewater. I belie we'd be 8-8 with Clowney and maybe 6-10 with Bridgewater . Yes the rest of the draft matters, but I think our defense improves that much with Clowney than our offense with Bridgewater

I'm not arguing about any player in particular. I'm debating philosophies. If you don't have a franchise QB and there is a player that you have graded as a franchise QB prospect available when you are on the clock then you take that QB every time, even if you think the next Reggie White or Calvin Johnson is available also. 

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How does listing Andy Dalton prove me wrong?  Isn't the point of a QB to manage your team to a win?  This whole concept is you can find a QB later for wins.  So someone who leads your team to a few playoff games is considered wrong?  

 

Mike Glennon didn't lead the Bucs to a few wins in the 2nd half of the season?  If he did that to us, we'd be saying oh man, I can't wait to see his future.  

 

So you listed about 11?  I listed about 7?  It's so rare to find lQBs out of the 1st round (is your argument).  Out of 32 teams, 7 QBs could have been had for past the 1st round?  7 out of 32 isn't bad.  11 out of how many DEs that play often in the league?  Outta that 7, you have superbowl winners, MVPs, etc.  Out of your 11 you named, none of them compare to JPP, JJ Watt, Mario Williams

None of them compare to JPP?  Really?


Do you even watch Football?  At least now we know not to take anything you say seriously ever again.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

None of them compare to JPP? Really?

Do you even watch Football? At least now we know not to take anything you say seriously ever again.

Yup your post is very informative. You're right I don't watch football at all. I guess since Welker gets all those yards, he compares to Calvin Johnson. I guess just because he doesn't get high sack totals , he doesn't help do anything during the game. The Giants probably won the super bowl that year because Eli and the offense.

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I consider it a success. I'll take 9-7, 10-6, and 11-5 over our record any day... Who cares about the Super Bowl , they atleast made the playoffs. I guess you're ignoring the fact they have Super Bowl talent bc they waited on Dalton... All you focus on is oh he sucks. Well how is he winning if he sucks? Oh his teamis great ? Why are they great because they drafted the better talent earlier ? You're just making my point when you say they have super bowl talent, thanks


I guess Andy dalton is any worse than those contracts to your wonderful first round picks... Matt Ryan , Eli, Flacco...

 

I see.  You're one of those people who are 'happy to be there'.  The goal of all 32 teams in the NFL is to make the Super Bowl.  You don't do that with Andy Dalton. 

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

I see. You're one of those people who are 'happy to be there'. The goal of all 32 teams in the NFL is to make the Super Bowl. You don't do that with Andy Dalton.

Oh wait, you do that with Gabbert , Newton, Bradford ? Why dont you actually give some insight on who you like? Why don't you give examples of why you your way works. I listed atleast 10 failed first round qbs. Why did Dalton or Geno Smith beat the likes of Brady , Brees , and Rodgers?


Are you gonna even answer with anything football related ?

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It's convenient you only list the AFC side and not the new QBs in the NFC. You also name Big Ben and Flacco who had great defenses.

Aren't you proving yourself wrong in a way? Only 4 qbs have made it? So basically all those teams picking first round qbs who will never be as good as Manning and Brady wasting their picks ? Why not stop Manning and Brady ? No no let's draft Blaine Gabbert and hope he's better than Manning.


I guess your logic makes sense, let's try to beat Manning by hoping the lesser QB is better. Why would we draft a DE who can force Brady and Manning out of the pocket.


You dint need a bunch of drafts if you have an all pro DE which will make all your current players better.

What it proves is that unless you have an elite QB, your chances of winning the SB (which is the only goal) are greatly diminished. You're all on Seattle because they are best team this year. Most years, its the QB that makes the difference and leads teams to the SB. Why do you think Brady is always in the AFC championship game? is it because of that Elite defense? What about Manning?

 

No one on here is arguing for Teddy B. Most people are arguing that getting a franchise Elite QB will help lead the team to more wins than a DE prospect which is absolutely true. Seattle doesn't even have an elite pass rusher. They have an elite secondary (thats 4 players) and an elite LB crew.

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What it proves is that unless you have an elite QB, your chances of winning the SB (which is the only goal) are greatly diminished. You're all on Seattle because they are best team this year. Most years, its the QB that makes the difference and leads teams to the SB. Why do you think Brady is always in the AFC championship game? is it because of that Elite defense? What about Manning?


No one on here is arguing for Teddy B. Most people are arguing that getting a franchise Elite QB will help lead the team to more wins than a DE prospect which is absolutely true. Seattle doesn't even have an elite pass rusher. They have an elite secondary (thats 4 players) and an elite LB crew.

I get how important an elite qb is. You named them, it's easier to get an elite defense than qb. How many qbs have been drafted in the age of Brady and Manning ? How many panned out ? 3? Out of how many ?


I don't even think the Seahawks were the best team this year, I think it was SF. Last year, the Ravens had Ngata, Suggs, Lewis , Reed and their OL gelled at the right time. The Giants the year before that , great dline.


Point is great drafting is something we need and selecting a qb every 5 years hoping he's Manning is a lot harder than just building a solid team

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I get how important an elite qb is. You named them, it's easier to get an elite defense than qb. How many qbs have been drafted in the age of Brady and Manning ? How many panned out ? 3? Out of how many ?


I don't even think the Seahawks were the best team this year, I think it was SF. Last year, the Ravens had Ngata, Suggs, Lewis , Reed and their OL gelled at the right time. The Giants the year before that , great dline.


Point is great drafting is something we need and selecting a qb every 5 years hoping he's Manning is a lot harder than just building a solid team

Seattle drafted well, simple as that.

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Also for the people that aren't happy just being there. If you're good enough to just make the playoffs, you're good enough to win it all . The best team doesn't always win. It's better to have a chance than praying for losses after week 8


Ravens were not the best team last year , giants before that. Like I said , I think sf was the best team this year.

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Oh wait, you do that with Gabbert , Newton, Bradford ? Why dont you actually give some insight on who you like? Why don't you give examples of why you your way works. I listed atleast 10 failed first round qbs. Why did Dalton or Geno Smith beat the likes of Brady , Brees , and Rodgers?


Are you gonna even answer with anything football related ?

 

I can't wait until Derrick Harvey goes into the Hall of Fame!  The guy is a total beast!  We shouldn't need Clowney when we still have him on our team!  Dewayne Robertson is still having a great career with the Jets, right?  How about Courtney Brown?  Jammal Anderson?  Justin Harrell?  Jonathan Sullivan?  It's easy to remember the QB failures, because everyone knows the QB's name.  I WONDER WHY THAT IS!

 

You point out a couple of instances where the better QB lost, and suddenly thinks that proves your point?  ANY GIVEN SUNDAY.  Any team can win any given Sunday.  Doesn't matter who's on the field.  How bad your defense is.  How bad your offense is.  I think the Jaguars proved that this year by getting 4 wins despite having a talent-depleted roster.

 

You really think Clowney is going to get us 8 wins?  Why didn't JJ Watt get 8 wins for the Texans this year?  How about 4?  He couldn't even do that!  I guess our defensive ends are just better.   How come Mario Williams and the Bills didn't win more than 6 games?  Jared Allen and the Vikings only went 5-10-1.  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

I can't wait until Derrick Harvey goes into the Hall of Fame!  The guy is a total beast!  We shouldn't need Clowney when we still have him on our team!  Dewayne Robertson is still having a great career with the Jets, right?  How about Courtney Brown?  Jammal Anderson?  Justin Harrell?  Jonathan Sullivan?  It's easy to remember the QB failures, because everyone knows the QB's name.  I WONDER WHY THAT IS!

 

You point out a couple of instances where the better QB lost, and suddenly thinks that proves your point?  ANY GIVEN SUNDAY.  Any team can win any given Sunday.  Doesn't matter who's on the field.  How bad your defense is.  How bad your offense is.  I think the Jaguars proved that this year by getting 4 wins despite having a talent-depleted roster.

 

You really think Clowney is going to get us 8 wins?  Why didn't JJ Watt get 8 wins for the Texans this year?  How about 4?  He couldn't even do that!  I guess our defensive ends are just better.   How come Mario Williams and the Bills didn't win more than 6 games?  Jared Allen and the Vikings only went 5-10-1.  

This^^^

 

People are like kids around here, no view of the grander vision

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To be clear, you seem to think that we're saying that 1st round QB = automatic success.  You're making a straw-man, and tearing it down.  

 

It doesn't.  But we happen to trust that our GM can find the right QB in the first round.  That's why QB is our preference.  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Maybe bc the Vikings and bills had wonderful picks of ponder and Manuel? Maybe the texans lost their qb? You think the Texabs also didn't tank against us? The Texans should have beat the Pats late in the season


It is any given Sunday but those top qbs lost because those defenses they faced. When you have no defense , you don't really see those upsets .


And yes I do think Clowney and another rusher would give us 8 wins. Clowney abd another rusher makes me think we have the best defense in our division and we could easily sweep the division.

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I get how important an elite qb is. You named them, it's easier to get an elite defense than qb. How many qbs have been drafted in the age of Brady and Manning ? How many panned out ? 3? Out of how many ?


I don't even think the Seahawks were the best team this year, I think it was SF. Last year, the Ravens had Ngata, Suggs, Lewis , Reed and their OL gelled at the right time. The Giants the year before that , great dline.


Point is great drafting is something we need and selecting a qb every 5 years hoping he's Manning is a lot harder than just building a solid team

Get the QB first... Then fill in the elite defense later in the draft. Only Early Thomas was a first round pick on the Seahawks.

 

An Elite QB will get you to the dacne more often than an elite defense.

 

The Ravens won last year because of Flacco (11 tds and no int's), Boldin (unreal tough catches) and Jacoby Jones. Suggs was very good but Ravens actually played better defense without Lewis.

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Maybe bc the Vikings and bills had wonderful picks of ponder and Manuel? Maybe the texans lost their qb? You think the Texabs also didn't tank against us? The Texans should have beat the Pats late in the season


It is any given Sunday but those top qbs lost because those defenses they faced. When you have no defense , you don't really see those upsets .


And yes I do think Clowney and another rusher would give us 8 wins. Clowney abd another rusher makes me think we have the best defense in our division and we could easily sweep the division.

JJ Watt is the best defensive player in all of football and the Texans only had 2 wins...

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Maybe bc the Vikings and bills had wonderful picks of ponder and Manuel? Maybe the texans lost their qb? You think the Texabs also didn't tank against us? The Texans should have beat the Pats late in the season


It is any given Sunday but those top qbs lost because those defenses they faced. When you have no defense , you don't really see those upsets .


And yes I do think Clowney and another rusher would give us 8 wins. Clowney abd another rusher makes me think we have the best defense in our division and we could easily sweep the division.

Clowney and another pass rusher with Henne at QB will give us 8 wins? Doubt it

 

Also,Who cares? 8 wins gets you no where.

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