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Isaiah Simmons?

#41
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020, 01:28 PM by flgatorsandjags.)

(01-31-2020, 01:00 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 12:44 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Jack was a damn good SAM and was snubbed for a Pro Bowl spot in 17.  He was a play maker and had a 3 or 4 game stretch where he created a turnover and much better againstthe tun when playing outside.    We are drafting for 2020 and ever other year after.  You are probably in tank mode already but with a good draft and some smart FA moves and cuts we can be back in the playoffs especially with a full training camp for Mishew as the startepkapkahed
He played mike around 65+% of the time. He was v good because of how good his coverage was on passing downs not because he was killing it as a sam the other 30% of the time. He was a mike who occasionally played sam in 2017. 
The reason you don't draft for 2020 is because rookies should never be counted on to be impact players year 1 and this roster is two off seasons away from being competitive enough for the playoffs + the coaching is terrible outside of Gruden. The optimum build is to try form the most talented team we can in the following years vs seeing who can just plug holes this year
When Jack is at his worst is on early downs against the run when he is playing MLB in 4-3.  Which he wouldnt be if he moves back to SAM, and stay in as the MIKE on passing downs.  He was good in both in 17.  Jack didnt occasionally play sam in 17 he played every snap at SAM.  Im pretty sure Jack was the only defender to play every snap that year   I watched every game so I know what he played but will you send me the link for the % where Jack played that year? Poz played MLB in 4-3 base as i stated in a few posts up.  When you just plug holes for the year is when you feel like you are going to be title contenders and I dont see that next year but with another good draft and improvement form Minshew we could def win the division.  You want to draft players you feel that can help you this year and the future.  Dave said it himself, thats one thing he has learned is to draft a player that you feel can help you now and in the future.  With drafting Simmons I feel like he could step in day 1 and help and be a building block of the future.

(01-31-2020, 01:11 PM)Kane Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 01:00 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: I said would you take a Telvin at his best in the top 10.  Telvin wasnt constantly out of position in 17 and was one of the best LBs in the game, the reason he made All Pro.  I think Simmons can be every bit that and the potential to be even better.  Hes better in coverage and can blitz if need be.  He will also probably run a similar 40 that Telvin did

I still wouldn't take ANY WLB at his best in top ten. Especially Telvin. His 2017 year was great but was often making his plays trailing. He also was playing with a ton of good pieces around him (including Jack and Poz who were playing well that year, a very good DL, and two very very good corners)
That's just me though, maybe others feel differently. Outside of a 3 down MLB  that can QB the defense I'm not a fan of drafting LBers high in the first round (this of course is different for a 34 rush backer obviously)

Like I said, I'm not doubting Simmons ability... And personally if we did end up with him, I'd be more tempted to play him at S than LB just because of our needs/scheme fit. I think we're best off getting a MLB (round 2-4 or FA) and moving Jack to WLB

Im curious as to what his weight will be at the combine. I think that will be a big thing for him and as to which position teams will want him to play.  He was 230 in college, if he comes in about 7-8 pounds heavier I would draft him and play him at MLB and move Jack to WILL. Hell, Urlacher played safety in college and moved to MLB and I feel Simmons has the talent to do so and he even played pretty much every LB spot at Clemson and some safety
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#42
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020, 01:31 PM by JackCity.)

(01-31-2020, 01:22 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 01:00 PM)JackCity Wrote: He played mike around 65+% of the time. He was v good because of how good his coverage was on passing downs not because he was killing it as a sam the other 30% of the time. He was a mike who occasionally played sam in 2017. 
The reason you don't draft for 2020 is because rookies should never be counted on to be impact players year 1 and this roster is two off seasons away from being competitive enough for the playoffs + the coaching is terrible outside of Gruden. The optimum build is to try form the most talented team we can in the following years vs seeing who can just plug holes this year
When Jack is at his worst is on early downs against the run when he is playing MLB in 4-3.  Which he wouldnt be if he moves back to SAM, and stay in as the MIKE on passing downs.  He was good in both in 17.  Jack didnt occasionally play sam in 17 he played every snap at SAM.  Im pretty sure Jack was the only defender to play every snap that year   I watched every game so I know what he played but will you send me the link for the  % where Jack played that year?  Poz played MLB in 4-3 base as i stated in a few posts up.  When you just plug holes for the year is when you feel like you are going to be title contenders and I dont see that next year but with another good draft and improvement form Minshew we could def win the division.  You want to draft players you feel that can help you this year and the future.  Dave said it himself, thats one thing he has learned is to draft a player that you feel can help you now and in the future.  With drafting Simmons I feel like he could step in day 1 and help and be a building block of the future.

I don't think you know what you're watching. Poz only played 46% of snaps in 2017, when he wasn't on the field Jack was at mike and Telvin was at will. I'm well aware Poz played mike in base, and Jack aligned at sam. We also ran packages where Poz played sam in base and Myles at mike but that was maybe 5% of snaps
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#43

(01-31-2020, 01:29 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 01:22 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: When Jack is at his worst is on early downs against the run when he is playing MLB in 4-3.  Which he wouldnt be if he moves back to SAM, and stay in as the MIKE on passing downs.  He was good in both in 17.  Jack didnt occasionally play sam in 17 he played every snap at SAM.  Im pretty sure Jack was the only defender to play every snap that year   I watched every game so I know what he played but will you send me the link for the  % where Jack played that year?  Poz played MLB in 4-3 base as i stated in a few posts up.  When you just plug holes for the year is when you feel like you are going to be title contenders and I dont see that next year but with another good draft and improvement form Minshew we could def win the division.  You want to draft players you feel that can help you this year and the future.  Dave said it himself, thats one thing he has learned is to draft a player that you feel can help you now and in the future.  With drafting Simmons I feel like he could step in day 1 and help and be a building block of the future.

I don't think you know what you're watching. Poz only played 46% of snaps in 2017, when he wasn't on the field Jack was at mike and Telvin was at will. I'm well aware Poz played mike in base, and Jack aligned at sam. We also ran packages where Poz played sam in base and Myles at mike but that was maybe 5% of snaps

I know exactly what im watching, you just look at stats and get most of your takes off twitter lol.  You just said the same thing that I said without the %  lol.  Can I get the link to the percentages as to where each player played where?  If Poz played 46% of the snaps and Jack played 98% of the snaps and more snaps than any other defender.  Show me the link to the % of where Poz played SAM and where Jack played MIKE 65% of the time.  I think you dont know what you are looking at and just throwing up numbers like [BLEEP] on a wall to hope it sticks.  Jack played MIKE 65% of the time, Poz played 46% of the snaps.  Poz played 11% of the snaps else where? 



Here is the link as to how many played, and like I said Jack played more snaps than any defender.  Lets see the % number as to where Jack and Poz played?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...counts.htm
Reply

#44

(01-31-2020, 02:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 01:29 PM)JackCity Wrote: I don't think you know what you're watching. Poz only played 46% of snaps in 2017, when he wasn't on the field Jack was at mike and Telvin was at will. I'm well aware Poz played mike in base, and Jack aligned at sam. We also ran packages where Poz played sam in base and Myles at mike but that was maybe 5% of snaps

I know exactly what im watching, you just look at stats and get most of your takes off twitter lol.  You just said the same thing that I said without the %  lol.  Can I get the link to the percentages as to where each player played where?  If Poz played 46% of the snaps and Jack played 98% of the snaps and more snaps than any other defender.  Show me the link to the % of where Poz played SAM and where Jack played MIKE 65% of the time.  I think you dont know what you are looking at and just throwing up numbers like [BLEEP] on a wall to hope it sticks.  Jack played MIKE 65% of the time, Poz played 46% of the snaps.  Poz played 11% of the snaps else where? 



Here is the link as to how many played, and like I said Jack played more snaps than any defender.  Lets see the % number as to where Jack and Poz played?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...counts.htm

You just said Myles Jack played every snap at SAM above? I said Jack was a mike majority of the time
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#45

(01-31-2020, 02:08 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 02:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: I know exactly what im watching, you just look at stats and get most of your takes off twitter lol.  You just said the same thing that I said without the %  lol.  Can I get the link to the percentages as to where each player played where?  If Poz played 46% of the snaps and Jack played 98% of the snaps and more snaps than any other defender.  Show me the link to the % of where Poz played SAM and where Jack played MIKE 65% of the time.  I think you dont know what you are looking at and just throwing up numbers like [BLEEP] on a wall to hope it sticks.  Jack played MIKE 65% of the time, Poz played 46% of the snaps.  Poz played 11% of the snaps else where? 



Here is the link as to how many played, and like I said Jack played more snaps than any defender.  Lets see the % number as to where Jack and Poz played?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...counts.htm

You just said Myles Jack played every snap at SAM above? I said Jack was a mike majority of the time

When Poz came off the field, Jack was the MIKE.  I said that on post 28 before you even commented on this.  I states Jack played almost every single down that year and more than any other defender on our team.  We didnt run a 4-3 every single down
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#46

I think Simmons will be the best player in the draft. I don't know where you'd play him yet, but I don't think it matters. He'll be able to do anything you want him to do.
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#47
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020, 02:17 PM by JackCity.)

(01-31-2020, 02:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 01:29 PM)JackCity Wrote: I don't think you know what you're watching. Poz only played 46% of snaps in 2017, when he wasn't on the field Jack was at mike and Telvin was at will. I'm well aware Poz played mike in base, and Jack aligned at sam. We also ran packages where Poz played sam in base and Myles at mike but that was maybe 5% of snaps

I know exactly what im watching, you just look at stats and get most of your takes off twitter lol.  You just said the same thing that I said without the %  lol.  Can I get the link to the percentages as to where each player played where?  If Poz played 46% of the snaps and Jack played 98% of the snaps and more snaps than any other defender.  Show me the link to the % of where Poz played SAM and where Jack played MIKE 65% of the time.  I think you dont know what you are looking at and just throwing up numbers like [BLEEP] on a wall to hope it sticks.  Jack played MIKE 65% of the time, Poz played 46% of the snaps.  Poz played 11% of the snaps else where? 



Here is the link as to how many played, and like I said Jack played more snaps than any defender.  Lets see the % number as to where Jack and Poz played?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...counts.htm

Dude you literally said above "Jack didnt occasionally play sam in 17 he played every snap at SAM". 

Thats plainly incorrect. Whats im telling you is that when Poz wasn't on the field Jack was at mike, which was a majority of the time. The %s might be off but the overall point is true and yours is completely false. Everybody knows we ran nickel a vast majority of the time

Also I've posted film analysis in here multiple times. What have you done? Bar slobbering over bad qbs and getting basic elements of football wrong.

(01-31-2020, 02:11 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 02:08 PM)JackCity Wrote: You just said Myles Jack played every snap at SAM above? I said Jack was a mike majority of the time

When Poz came off the field, Jack was the MIKE.  I said that on post 28 before you even commented on this.  I states Jack played almost every single down that year and more than any other defender on our team.  We didnt run a 4-3 every single down

All of this is already known? Well aware of how many snaps Jack played and that he played as mike a majority of the time
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#48

(01-31-2020, 02:14 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 02:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: I know exactly what im watching, you just look at stats and get most of your takes off twitter lol.  You just said the same thing that I said without the %  lol.  Can I get the link to the percentages as to where each player played where?  If Poz played 46% of the snaps and Jack played 98% of the snaps and more snaps than any other defender.  Show me the link to the % of where Poz played SAM and where Jack played MIKE 65% of the time.  I think you dont know what you are looking at and just throwing up numbers like [BLEEP] on a wall to hope it sticks.  Jack played MIKE 65% of the time, Poz played 46% of the snaps.  Poz played 11% of the snaps else where? 



Here is the link as to how many played, and like I said Jack played more snaps than any defender.  Lets see the % number as to where Jack and Poz played?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...counts.htm

Dude you literally said above "Jack didnt occasionally play sam in 17 he played every snap at SAM". 

Thats plainly incorrect. Whats im telling you is that when Poz wasn't on the field Jack was at mike, which was a majority of the time. The %s might be off but the overall point is true and yours is completely false. Everybody knows we ran nickel a vast majority of the time

Also I've posted film analysis in here multiple times. What have you done? Bar slobbering over bad qbs and getting basic elements of football wrong.

(01-31-2020, 02:11 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: When Poz came off the field, Jack was the MIKE.  I said that on post 28 before you even commented on this.  I states Jack played almost every single down that year and more than any other defender on our team.  We didnt run a 4-3 every single down

All of this is already known? Well aware of how many snaps Jack played and that he played as mike a majority of the time
You had no clue, why you are posting false percentages.  You say its incorrect but then you say the same thing I have said a number of times lol.  Film analysis*  lo . Dont get your little feelings hurt when you get proven wrong again like I have seen a number of times in here.  Self proclaimed QB whisperer*  lmao
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#49
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020, 06:05 PM by JackCity.)

(01-31-2020, 05:49 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 02:14 PM)JackCity Wrote: Dude you literally said above "Jack didnt occasionally play sam in 17 he played every snap at SAM". 

Thats plainly incorrect. Whats im telling you is that when Poz wasn't on the field Jack was at mike, which was a majority of the time. The %s might be off but the overall point is true and yours is completely false. Everybody knows we ran nickel a vast majority of the time

Also I've posted film analysis in here multiple times. What have you done? Bar slobbering over bad qbs and getting basic elements of football wrong.


All of this is already known? Well aware of how many snaps Jack played and that he played as mike a majority of the time
You had no clue, why you are posting false percentages.  You say its incorrect but then you say the same thing I have said a number of times lol.  Film analysis*  lo . Dont get your little feelings hurt when you get proven wrong again like I have seen a number of times in here.  Self proclaimed QB whisperer*  lmao

Read what you just wrote above. You said Jack was playing v good at SAM in 2017 and I said he was playing v good at mike which he played a majority of the time. He didn't play SAM every snap. 

What have I been proven wrong about exactly? 

And no I'm not a QB whisperer, I just know more than you, which 90% of the board does too.
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#50
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020, 06:25 PM by flgatorsandjags.)

(01-31-2020, 06:05 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 05:49 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: You had no clue, why you are posting false percentages.  You say its incorrect but then you say the same thing I have said a number of times lol.  Film analysis*  lo . Dont get your little feelings hurt when you get proven wrong again like I have seen a number of times in here.  Self proclaimed QB whisperer*  lmao

Read what you just wrote above. You said Jack was playing v good at SAM in 2017 and I said he was playing v good at mike which he played a majority of the time. He didn't play SAM every snap. 

What have I been proven wrong about exactly? 

And no I'm not a QB whisperer, I just know more than you, which 90% of the board does too.

Oh man you got me there.  I said he played good in both.  Go read post 28, he stayed in while Poz went out, I needed to remind you of that while you went and looked it up and made up some percentages.  No team runs a 4-3 every play so of course he played MIKE when Poz wasnt in.   

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...roster.htm
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#51

(01-31-2020, 06:20 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 06:05 PM)JackCity Wrote: Read what you just wrote above. You said Jack was playing v good at SAM in 2017 and I said he was playing v good at mike which he played a majority of the time. He didn't play SAM every snap. 

What have I been proven wrong about exactly? 

And no I'm not a QB whisperer, I just know more than you, which 90% of the board does too.

Oh man you got me there.  I said he played good in both.  Go read post 28, he stayed in while Poz went out, I needed to remind you of that while you went and looked it up and made up some percentages.  No team runs a 4-3 every play so of course he played MIKE when Poz wasnt in.   

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...roster.htm

Ummm.  They were in 4-3 when Poz was in and they were still in a 4-3 when Poz went out. Not sure what this has to do with anything regarding Jack's play at SAM.  The distinction you seem to be missing here is base vs nickel. Both of which are a 4-3 alignment - but only base uses the SAM.   

The important bit here is whether or not Jack is of some special helpfulness when playing what would likely be 30-40% of the 2021 defensive snaps at SAM backer.  You think he was great there. Others think he did better on mike downs that season. 

His play in the middle was so bad this season that I don't have much confidence in him playing well anywhere, but he should be better off at one of the outside spots. 

His ridiculous salary would make him playing SAM pretty laughable from a front office perspective. 
I do think his skillset lends itself better to playing the weakside.  I just don't think he's going to play well anywhere if he doesn't learn how to diagnose the formations across from him, anticipate what's coming from them, and stop allowing motion to move him out of position. 
He's regressed rather than improved in all of those aspects. 

Personally, if Simmons were drafted, I think it might make sense for him to play SAM because when they switch to nickel defense - he could then stay on the field as the nickel corner at times, as the SS at other times, and as the WLB at times depending on matchups and opponent. 

Sometimes pulling Hayden (who only has a year left here) , Harrison, or the WLB (whoever it may be) in order to keep Simmons out there would be kind of cool IMO. 
Of course I don't think Wash would ever do any of that.
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#52
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020, 07:52 PM by flgatorsandjags.)

(01-31-2020, 07:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 06:20 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Oh man you got me there.  I said he played good in both.  Go read post 28, he stayed in while Poz went out, I needed to remind you of that while you went and looked it up and made up some percentages.  No team runs a 4-3 every play so of course he played MIKE when Poz wasnt in.   

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...roster.htm

Ummm.  They were in 4-3 when Poz was in and they were still in a 4-3 when Poz went out. Not sure what this has to do with anything regarding Jack's play at SAM.  The distinction you seem to be missing here is base vs nickel. Both of which are a 4-3 alignment - but only base uses the SAM.   

The important bit here is whether or not Jack is of some special helpfulness when playing what would likely be 30-40% of the 2021 defensive snaps at SAM backer.  You think he was great there. Others think he did better on mike downs that season. 

His play in the middle was so bad this season that I don't have much confidence in him playing well anywhere, but he should be better off at one of the outside spots. 

His ridiculous salary would make him playing SAM pretty laughable from a front office perspective. 
I do think his skillset lends itself better to playing the weakside.  I just don't think he's going to play well anywhere if he doesn't learn how to diagnose the formations across from him, anticipate what's coming from them, and stop allowing motion to move him out of position. 
He's regressed rather than improved in all of those aspects. 

Personally, if Simmons were drafted, I think it might make sense for him to play SAM because when they switch to nickel defense - he could then stay on the field as the nickel corner at times, as the SS at other times, and as the WLB at times depending on matchups and opponent. 

Sometimes pulling Hayden (who only has a year left here) , Harrison, or the WLB (whoever it may be) in order to keep Simmons out there would be kind of cool IMO. 
Of course I don't think Wash would ever do any of that.

When we ran nickel Poz came off the field and Colvin came in.   We took a LB off the field and added a nickel corner. I never said Jack was great but he was pretty good until we moves him to MLB.  If Simmons played Will he would still be on the field for pretty much every down.  Even if we ran quarter, dime or what ever you could keep him in if you wanted.  In 2016 it was rare the we didnt have at least 2 LBs on the field at all time.  I think everyone knows Jack is overpaid but there isnt anything you can do about that right now.  I wouldn't replace Hayden or Harrison for Simmons, I'd keep him at LB.  Even Minkah said when Pit kept him at 1 position it helped him a ton and he became an All Pro in year 2.  As Simmons gets experience then you came move him a little but his rookie year I would just play him at LB the majority of the time
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#53

(01-31-2020, 07:51 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 07:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Ummm.  They were in 4-3 when Poz was in and they were still in a 4-3 when Poz went out. Not sure what this has to do with anything regarding Jack's play at SAM.  The distinction you seem to be missing here is base vs nickel. Both of which are a 4-3 alignment - but only base uses the SAM.   

The important bit here is whether or not Jack is of some special helpfulness when playing what would likely be 30-40% of the 2021 defensive snaps at SAM backer.  You think he was great there. Others think he did better on mike downs that season. 

His play in the middle was so bad this season that I don't have much confidence in him playing well anywhere, but he should be better off at one of the outside spots. 

His ridiculous salary would make him playing SAM pretty laughable from a front office perspective. 
I do think his skillset lends itself better to playing the weakside.  I just don't think he's going to play well anywhere if he doesn't learn how to diagnose the formations across from him, anticipate what's coming from them, and stop allowing motion to move him out of position. 
He's regressed rather than improved in all of those aspects. 

Personally, if Simmons were drafted, I think it might make sense for him to play SAM because when they switch to nickel defense - he could then stay on the field as the nickel corner at times, as the SS at other times, and as the WLB at times depending on matchups and opponent. 

Sometimes pulling Hayden (who only has a year left here) , Harrison, or the WLB (whoever it may be) in order to keep Simmons out there would be kind of cool IMO. 
Of course I don't think Wash would ever do any of that.

When we ran nickel Poz came off the field and Colvin came in.   We took a LB off the field and added a nickel corner.  I never said Jack was great but he was pretty good until we moves him to MLB.  If Simmons played Will he would still be on the field for pretty much every down.  Even if we ran quarter, dime or what ever you could keep him in if you wanted.  In 2016 it was rare the we didnt have at least 2 LBs on the field at all time.  I think everyone knows Jack is overpaid but there isnt anything you can do about that right now.  I wouldn't replace Hayden or Harrison for Simmons, I'd keep him at LB.  Even Minkah said when Pit kept him at 1 position it helped him a ton and he became an All Pro in year 2.  As Simmons gets experience then you came move him a little but his rookie year I would just play him at LB the majority of the time

OK.
You seem a little confused about this whole 4-3 nickel formation thing, but whatever. 

Sticking Simmons at one spot seems like a waste to me. Granted, I wouldn’t expect him to be a Swiss Army knife in his rookie year - but I’d use his versatility. 

I just hope we see some sort of upgrade at middle linebacker in 2020.
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#54

(01-31-2020, 08:34 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 07:51 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: When we ran nickel Poz came off the field and Colvin came in.   We took a LB off the field and added a nickel corner.  I never said Jack was great but he was pretty good until we moves him to MLB.  If Simmons played Will he would still be on the field for pretty much every down.  Even if we ran quarter, dime or what ever you could keep him in if you wanted.  In 2016 it was rare the we didnt have at least 2 LBs on the field at all time.  I think everyone knows Jack is overpaid but there isnt anything you can do about that right now.  I wouldn't replace Hayden or Harrison for Simmons, I'd keep him at LB.  Even Minkah said when Pit kept him at 1 position it helped him a ton and he became an All Pro in year 2.  As Simmons gets experience then you came move him a little but his rookie year I would just play him at LB the majority of the time

OK.
You seem a little confused about this whole 4-3 nickel formation thing, but whatever. 

Sticking Simmons at one spot seems like a waste to me. Granted, I wouldn’t expect him to be a Swiss Army knife in his rookie year - but I’d use his versatility. 

I just hope we see some sort of upgrade at middle linebacker in 2020.
What am confused about again?  That saying you want to use Simmons at nickle back some?  4-3 is stil our base defense, every team in the league uses nickle even the 3-4 defenses.  I'd like to see what percentage of 1st downs we ran a 4-3 and I'm sure it was even higher when we had Poz
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#55
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020, 09:44 PM by JackCity.)

(01-31-2020, 06:20 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 06:05 PM)JackCity Wrote: Read what you just wrote above. You said Jack was playing v good at SAM in 2017 and I said he was playing v good at mike which he played a majority of the time. He didn't play SAM every snap. 

What have I been proven wrong about exactly? 

And no I'm not a QB whisperer, I just know more than you, which 90% of the board does too.

Oh man you got me there.  I said he played good in both.  Go read post 28, he stayed in while Poz went out, I needed to remind you of that while you went and looked it up and made up some percentages.  No team runs a 4-3 every play so of course he played MIKE when Poz wasnt in.   

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...roster.htm

So why did you say he played SAM every snap of 2017? When in reality he played mike a majority of the time like I said. He was a good mike in 2017 and was elite in coverage at that role. He was a better and more valuable player at mike than sam

Trust me you aren't delivering news to anyone here by saying that nobody plays a 4-3 all the time
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#56

(01-31-2020, 09:36 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 06:20 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Oh man you got me there.  I said he played good in both.  Go read post 28, he stayed in while Poz went out, I needed to remind you of that while you went and looked it up and made up some percentages.  No team runs a 4-3 every play so of course he played MIKE when Poz wasnt in.   

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...roster.htm

So why did you say he played SAM every snap of 2017? When in reality he played mike a majority of the time like I said. He was a good mike in 2017 and was elite in coverage at that role. He was a better and more valuable player at mike than sam

Trust me you aren't delivering news to anyone here by saying that nobody plays a 4-3 all the time

When we were in a 4-3, he played SAM.  It's been beaten to death.  It's a little easier when you have a All Pro next to you to play better.  On top of that when they were in a 4-3 he had Poz next to him controlling the D.  But he was good at both in 17.  

I think it was news to you because I have said a number of time Jack played more snaps than anyone on D in 17 and he played MiKE when Poz came out
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#57

(01-31-2020, 10:13 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 09:36 PM)JackCity Wrote: So why did you say he played SAM every snap of 2017? When in reality he played mike a majority of the time like I said. He was a good mike in 2017 and was elite in coverage at that role. He was a better and more valuable player at mike than sam

Trust me you aren't delivering news to anyone here by saying that nobody plays a 4-3 all the time

When we were in a 4-3, he played SAM.  It's been beaten to death.  It's a little easier when you have a All Pro next to you to play better.  On top of that when they were in a 4-3 he had Poz next to him controlling the D.  But he was good at both in 17.  

I think it was news to you because I have said a number of time Jack played more snaps than anyone on D in 17 and he played MiKE when Poz came out

This is where you are confused. When this defense is in nickel, it's still a 4-3 front.  The "3" is simply made up of two LBs and one DB instead of 3 LBs.  Three LBs or two, it was all still 4-3.  They ran an extremely low number of 3-4 snaps in 2017. You could probably count them on one hand. 

So - "when we were in a 4-3" he played SAM on a bunch of first downs. But he also took 95% of his mike snaps "in a 4-3."
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#58

Getting back to Isiah Simmons...

Can a player like this play multiple positions in the NFL, if the coaching staff are able to cope with the adjustments?

I know the conventional view has been you don’t move positions, but there’s so much movement and flexibility these days, so maybe he could switch back to safety at times?

It would give opposing OCs a headache.
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#59
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2020, 08:46 AM by flgatorsandjags.)

(02-01-2020, 01:31 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(01-31-2020, 10:13 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: When we were in a 4-3, he played SAM.  It's been beaten to death.  It's a little easier when you have a All Pro next to you to play better.  On top of that when they were in a 4-3 he had Poz next to him controlling the D.  But he was good at both in 17.  

I think it was news to you because I have said a number of time Jack played more snaps than anyone on D in 17 and he played MiKE when Poz came out

This is where you are confused. When this defense is in nickel, it's still a 4-3 front.  The "3" is simply made up of two LBs and one DB instead of 3 LBs.  Three LBs or two, it was all still 4-3.  They ran an extremely low number of 3-4 snaps in 2017. You could probably count them on one hand. 

So - "when we were in a 4-3" he played SAM on a bunch of first downs. But he also took 95% of his mike snaps "in a 4-3."
I think you are the one confused.  When we ran a 4-3 defense we had Telvin-Poz-Jack out there.  When Poz went out and we went to nickel and Colvin came in or now when Hayden comes in, 95% of the time hes out on the slot receiver.  When we were in a 4-3 D Poz was getting the snaps at MIKE and that was over 40% of the time. Nickel and 4-3 are similar but when you you have an extra defensive back in for a LB it nickel not a 4-3. You can bring the corner in and give the offense a 4-3 look but it's still a nickel defense.


https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/a...t.amp.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_defense
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#60

(02-01-2020, 08:26 AM)Andy G Wrote: Getting back to Isiah Simmons...

Can a player like this play multiple positions in the NFL, if the coaching staff are able to cope with the adjustments?

I know the conventional view has been you don’t move positions, but there’s so much movement and flexibility these days, so maybe he could switch back to safety at times?

It would give opposing OCs a headache.

I don't know any players who play both linebacker and safety.  I have strong doubts that we can bring in a rookie and teach him to play linebacker at the same time we are teaching him to play safety.  It's hard enough learning one position.  

In addition, just saying a guy *can* play safety doesn't mean he'd be a better safety than a guy who is for sure a safety.  He might not be a better safety than some 2nd or 3rd round pick who's played safety and only safety all his life.  

If you take a talented guy and spread him over two or more positions, you're just diluting his talent.  There's an old saying, if you have two quarterbacks you have none.  I would extend that and say, if a guy has two positions, he doesn't have a position.
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